The Kessel Run is a device for lots of different writers trying to justify George Lucas misusing the term "parsec."
Little things in Trek that just bug you...
- Thread starter Captain Killy
- Start date
Do you remember when those replicators created nasty devices that were shooting anyone that didn't have a Cardassian DNA? In fact, the whole station was trying to kill the people in it, even Dukat in the end!!!
During TOS we saw people drinking coffee (or something?) while on the bridge, and in one scene Kirk's on the bridge snacking while having a conversation with McCoy
I think it's just that, when all is said and done what comes out of the replicator simple tastes different.
Is it? Maybe more it's the closest facsimile that the replicator can manage.
Replicated chicken isn't really chicken, it just favored bio-protein and fats.
Well think about it Timewalker, Kenobi inquires if the ship is fast.
Solo states that the ship's speed enabled it to do the Kessel run in less than twelve parsecs (units of distance) and to outrun Imperial starships.
Solo states this as indication of the ship's superior speed.
Solo is smuggler of illegal goods.
Kessel is planet, the location of the Kessel spice mines. Ron Howard has confirmed the Kessel spice mines make an appearance in the up coming Han Solo movie.
Timewalker, it's a puzzle with relatively few pieces.
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Timewalker, Timewalker, Timewalker...
I know my own name. You don't have to wear it out, Tenacity.
Tenacity, I don't give a damn about what Ron Howard says about any other movie. It's irrelevant. In the version of Star Wars I saw, the scene clearly used parsecs as a unit of time, not distance. That was in 1977, in the theatre, before Lucas started mucking with it and "improving" it, and nobody knew if there would definitely be any sequels, prequels, spinoffs, or anything else.
Are we clear on this, Tenacity? I hope so, because I am so done with this part of the conversation.
Which makes catsuits and 'onesies' really dumb uniform designs. Awkward.
Isn't that where most starships first encountered the Borg? And since the first encounter was also the last for most of them, I don't actually have a problem with this.
Nobody know what proportion of habitable planets have intelligent species advanced enough to be admitted into the Federation and primitive enough to benefit from joining.
Vulcan is between 16 and 17 light years from Earth, and probably orbits 40 Eridani A. So two of the founding members of the UFP are located within a sphere with a radius of 17 light years centered on Earth, which has a volume of 20,579.53 light years. In the neighborhood of our Sun the stellar density is estimated to be 0.004 stars per cubic light year, so there should be 82.31 stars within 17 light years of Earth.
There are about 69 systems (including the solar system) listed within this distance with about 85 individual stars & brown dwarfs listed up to 17 light years. So apparently 2 out of 69 systems and 2 out of 85 stars in this volume have habitable planets with intelligent lifeforms that joined the Federation.
A sphere with a radius of 170 light years would have one thousand times the volume and number of stars, about 82,310 stars. If it had the same ratio of Federation member planets to stars there would be about 760.235 Federation members within a sphere with a radius of 170 light years. So one has to wonder how the Federation could stretch over 8,000 light years and also have only 150(full?) members, as Picard told Lilly.
It could be a lot more crowded. The other two founding members of the Federation, Andoria and Tellar Prime, might also be within 17 light years of Earth. Some sources put Andoria in the Procyon system 11.402 light years distant, and others put in in the Epsilon Indi system 11.824 light years away, while some sources put Tellar in the 61 Cygni System 11.403 light years from Earth. So Federation members could be twice as common if one accepts those sources.
I myself would put Andoria and Tellar farther way from Earth to lessen the density of Federation members.
In "Who Mourns for Adonais?" Kirk & co. are exploring Pollux
So Lt. Carolyn Palamas considers the lack of intelligent life on the Pollux planets statistically improbable. It is possible that there are many habitable planets orbiting in the habitable zone of Pollux. Still, she seems to expect that maybe at least one world in ten or one world in a hundred would have intelligent life.
T'Pol in Enterprise "Fight or Flight" says:
So the 85 stars within 17 light years have at least 2 intelligent life forms. If there are 86,000 planets within that volume of space with 85 or so stars there would be over 1,000 planets per star. Maybe T'Pol counts large spheroidal moons as planetary bodies, and dwarf planets, as planets. There are 19 such moons, 5 recognized dwarf planets, several dwarf planet candidates, and possibly hundreds or thousands of undiscovered dwarf planets in our solar system. And there could be hundreds, thousands, or tens of thousands of planetary sized rogue objects in interstellar space between the stars in that volume of space.
If T'Pol is counting only major planets, and if the average star has 1 to 10 major planets, 2 intelligent species would normally be found in 8,600 to 86,000 stars. Thus a star would have a 0.0002325 to 0.0000232 chance of having a planet with intelligent life. With two stars out of 85, or 0.02352 of the stars, within 17 light years of Earth having planets with intelligent life, the volume within 17 light years of Earth thus has 101.161 to 1,013.793 times as many planets with intelligent species as it should have according to T'Pol's statistics!
So it should be obvious why It seems a bad idea to put the home worlds of the Andorians and the Tellarites within 17 light years of Earth.
If there is one planet with intelligent life for every 43,000 stars on the average, there could be 150 member species of the Federation in 6,450,000 stars. But if only one intelligent species out of 10 in Federation space is a member of the Federation the Federation would have to spread out over 64,500,000 stars. If only one intelligent species out of 100 in Federation space is a Federation member the Federation would have to spread out over 645,000,000 stars. If only one intelligent species out of 1,000 in Federation space is a Federation member the Federation would have to spread out over 6,450,000,000 stars, a bit more than the 4,000,000,000 stars which would be only one percent of all the stars in the galaxy.
Of course, if the average star has 10 major planets, then if one planet out of 43,000 has intelligent life the Federation could have 150 intelligent species in 645,000 stars. If only one intelligent species out of 10 in Federation space is a Federation member, the Federation would be spread over 6,450,000 stars. If only one intelligent species out of 100 in Federation space is a member of the Federation the Federation would have to spread over 64,500,000 stars. If only one intelligent species out of 1,000 in Federation space is a Federation member the Federation would have to spread out over 645,000,000 stars. If only one intelligent species out of 10,000 in Federation space is a Federation member the Federation would have to spread out over 6,450,000,000 stars, a bit more than the 4,000,000,000 stars which would be only one percent of all the stars in the galaxy.
And if T'Pol's statement that only one major planet out of every 43,000 has intelligent life is correct, shouldn't the star Pollux have at least 43,000 major planets for Lt. Palamas to think the lack of intelligent life on the planets of Pollux was unusual?
Possibly the difference in statistics may be due to Vulcan snobbery. Maybe Vulcans claim that only species of Vulcan level intelligence or higher count as intelligent beings whey they claim that only one planet in 43,000 has intelligent life. Maybe Lt. Palamas and TOS era Starfleet members consider beings of less than Vulcan intelligence, such as humans, to be intelligent beings, and perhaps they even consider many beings that are not considered to be intelligent by most 21st century humans to be intelligent.
Anyway, those two statements from two different episodes in two different eras show how complex Star Trek statistics can be.
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Ships that fly in neat formation at warp. They must have incredibly precise warp engines. Even going with the simple v=W^3 *c formula of TOS, the difference between Warp 7 and Warp 7.000001 would be about 441 km/s. Yet we rarely hear them cite warp speeds with more than one decimal (well, except in the extreme 9.9+ range of course), even if they have to catch up with other objects or ships carefully ...
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Given the Federation was founded by a half dozen intelligent species all relatively close to each other, T'Pol's statement doesn't make much sense.
Especially if T'Pol was only referring to planets capable of supporting intelligent life in the first place (excepting planets like Mercury).
Of course T'Pol doesn't have a perfect track record on being correct.
Trek right from the start tend to show intelligent life to be common.
I think ENT was the only one to carry damage from one episode to the next.
The Paradise Syndrome had the warp drive basically destroyed, yet it was apparently fine the next episode (unknown time period inbetween), and in the episode after that the ship was capable of unusually fast speeds.
Not in terms of your reasoning, which depends on a character who pilots a starship for a living, and is shown over the course of multiple movies to be extremely good at it, not to knowing what he's talking about.
Oh, and none of George Lucas' changes involved that particular scene between Solo and Kenobi.
No, Cap'n Solo was trying to BS what he thought was an ignorant old guy to get some cash. Watch Kenobi's reaction when Solo drops the p-word. Kenobi knows he's being BS'd. It's totally an in-character thing for Solo to do.
I don't recall saying that Han Solo didn't know what he was talking about. I'm saying the RL scriptwriter didn't know what he was talking about.
Spin it any way you want - parsecs are units of distance. Not time. By itself, that "Kessel Run in 12 parsecs" line makes no sense.
Starships flying at warp in tight formation. What's wrong with that? What's the worse that could possibly happen?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramstein_air_show_disaster
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Angels#Accidents
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_A._Walker
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Victoria_(1887)
One thing that really bugs me is that Janeway keeps moralizing and at the same time contradicting herself on the most basic level. For instance, she refuses to form alliances or give away weapons on moral grounds but a few months later she does both in the most outrageous way, she forms an alliance with the most vicious and dangerous species of the quadrant and gives it the most devastating weapon that gives it a decisive advantage. And yet most of her fan base doesn't seem to notice that. And don't tell me that it was all part of the plan because, without Kes' push, her ship would have spent TEN YEARS inside Borg space without the slightest chances of survival.
Janeway's hypocrisy is a major part of why I am not one of her "fan base."
Her chat with Ransom about breaking the Prime Directive... she claimed she hadn't, but that's pure BS. She broke it in "Caretaker" when she decided to save the Ocampa.
I would say I would be part of the Janeway fan base but I never agreed with the Borg alliance in terms of Species 8472. She didn't know the full implications as evidenced by Arturis and even 'Flesh and Blood'.
However I totally approved of how she brought down Ransom and his crew...
However I totally approved of how she brought down Ransom and his crew...
Pondwater said:
The Borg smash 39 starships at Wolf 359 and capture many crewmembers. The Borg Borgify the crewmembers and sail to Earth with the Borgified crewmembers aboard their cube. The Borg cube explodes near Earth (hopefully not too near or there might be an Endor holocaust on Earth), and all the Borg and all the Borgified crewmembers are vaporized. Later Voyager in the Delta Quadrant tens of thousands of light years from Earth encounters some of the Borgified crewmembers from Wolf 359 that should have been vaporized with the cube at Earth. That is the problem. Why are the Borgified crewmembers still alive and still Borg in the Delta Quadrant instead of being clouds of incandescent vapor in space near Earth?
The Borg smash 39 starships at Wolf 359 and capture many crewmembers. The Borg Borgify the crewmembers and sail to Earth with the Borgified crewmembers aboard their cube. The Borg cube explodes near Earth (hopefully not too near or there might be an Endor holocaust on Earth), and all the Borg and all the Borgified crewmembers are vaporized. Later Voyager in the Delta Quadrant tens of thousands of light years from Earth encounters some of the Borgified crewmembers from Wolf 359 that should have been vaporized with the cube at Earth. That is the problem. Why are the Borgified crewmembers still alive and still Borg in the Delta Quadrant instead of being clouds of incandescent vapor in space near Earth?
