Let's talk about Equinox

[Candlelight]

a number of things/inconsistencies really bugged me in this two parter:

1. The Equinox is supposedly taken to the same Array by the Caretaker, yet they encounter none (not even the Borg) of the same species as Voy (probably to make it believable that a weeny Nova-class ship could last that long)

The Delta Quadrant is big. It's often been surmised that Voyager took an indirect route home, whereas Equinox took a more direct journey, like closer to the galaxy's centre.

2. The Equinox had been using the nucleogenic aliens to travel great distances, yet Voyager is able to track them (the nomadic ppl who summoned them -- are they even capable of warp travel??) down within the time of the episode

Probably found it in Equinox's database as to which region of space they live in, however this doesn't account for the whole '10,000 light years in two weeks' line cos it would mean one of these ships would have to come after them; I doubt Voyager would have travelled 10,000ly in one direction, found this ship, then travelled 10,000ly back to catch Equinox!

3. When the nucleogenic aliens farted anti-matter, there were no huge explosions

Um... yeah...

4. Capt. Ransom says something like if they could keep going (using the aliens as fuel) they'd reach Earth in a month (or something significantly less than the ~35 yrs for Voyager). i mean, how fast were they going??? i was under the impression that Nova class max warp was less than that of Voyager (corresponding to a lower cruising speed than warp 6) and that the aliens were used to boost the engines up to about what Voyager's speed was....

The math they use is pretty flimsy. 0.3% increase would only get them to near warp nine, unless Janeway (or Mulgrew) read the line wrong.

was there any mention of the Equinox finding wormholes as shortcuts?? if so, it might explain how janeway traveled all the way back to the antimatter-farting-aliens-summoners homeworld, but i doubt it since the ds9 wormhole is supposedly the only stable one

He mentions to Janeway in Pt 1 they found a wormhole, which might explain why they missed Borg space.

 

[MeanJoePhaser]

Whatever happened to the Equinox crew that survived. There were five that survived. I know they were stripped of there rank, but did we ever see them again?

They play poker with the subspace-damaging warp engines and the Borg baby every sunday.

Lt. Carey used to play to, but he stopped going after Friendship One.

 

[Lucy of Nine]

Let's talk about Equinox, baby
let's talk about you and me
let's talk about all the good things and the bad things that may be

 

[Lucy of Nine]

Whatever happened to the Equinox crew that survived. There were five that survived. I know they were stripped of there rank, but did we ever see them again?

They play poker with the subspace-damaging warp engines and the Borg baby every sunday.

Lt. Carey used to play to, but he stopped going after Friendship One.

The 5 Equinox crew were sent to that special place in the ship where the never ending shuttles and photon torpedos were produced. Its like a shuttle sweat shop...

 

[MeanJoePhaser]

Is that where the Delaney Sisters are, too?

 

[Luminus]

apparently, burning more and more creatures allowed the Equinox to travel something like 10,000 ly in 2 weeks, or something like that, so they probably could've gone the long-way around, or found wormholes....

it'd probably have been easier to just go for the GQ wormhole tho

The borg can travel faster than Federation ships. They would have detected the Equinox and moved to assimilate. Why would Ransom go around a region of space, since no one knew it was filled with borg? The writer's just screwed up once again. That story should have taken place in season 3.

i don't think the borg would go out of their way to assimilate a little nova class vessel (8 decks and 80 crew)

Normally, they wouldn't. However, the Equinox is a Federation starship. That alone makes it a target.

 

[Praetor]

^I doubt that. What would the Borg really learn from a single tiny Federation starship that they didn't learn from the 39 assimilated at Wolf 359 or at the battle from First Contact?

That said, I do wish the Equinox storyline would have been a multi-part, perhaps even becoming a recurring thing until near the end of the series. The Equinox and her crew were a good contrast to Voyager and added a lot of flavor to the series. The previous suggestion of the Equinox leaving Voyager at the mercy of the aliens for a while to see what it had been like for them was also an excellent idea.

 

[Candlelight]

^I doubt that. What would the Borg really learn from a single tiny Federation starship that they didn't learn from the 39 assimilated at Wolf 359 or at the battle from First Contact?

For one it would have been around 9 years more advanced than the ships at Wolf 359, and the Borg may never have seen it before (unless the Nova class was involved in the First Contact battles). Any advance on the humans that the Borg have never been able to assimilate en masse I'm sure they would take.

 

[Praetor]

^I doubt that. What would the Borg really learn from a single tiny Federation starship that they didn't learn from the 39 assimilated at Wolf 359 or at the battle from First Contact?

For one it would have been around 9 years more advanced than the ships at Wolf 359, and the Borg may never have seen it before (unless the Nova class was involved in the First Contact battles). Any advance on the humans that the Borg have never been able to assimilate en masse I'm sure they would take.

But depending what you mean by 'en masse' the Borg did assimilate a large group of humans at Wolf 359 and later in First Contact. Voyager and presumably Equinox arrived in the DQ in 2371 and the Voyager didn't encounter the Borg until their third season, placing it in 2373 I believe, perhaps around the same time as the events in First Contact so perhaps the Borg had already assimiliated those newer ships at the time they encountered Equinox?

But I don't mean to argue, I simply meant to suggest that the Borg may have detected the Equinox and simply deemed it unworthy of assimilation, and left them alone. Just because they hadn't seen a single cube doesn't mean the Borg hadn't seen them.

 

[Johnny]

Warp 9.99993297 for 2 weeks = 10'000 ly ... I think ... might have to check my math again, but I'm pretty sure.

 

[Luminus]

^I doubt that. What would the Borg really learn from a single tiny Federation starship that they didn't learn from the 39 assimilated at Wolf 359 or at the battle from First Contact?

For one it would have been around 9 years more advanced than the ships at Wolf 359, and the Borg may never have seen it before (unless the Nova class was involved in the First Contact battles). Any advance on the humans that the Borg have never been able to assimilate en masse I'm sure they would take.

But depending what you mean by 'en masse' the Borg did assimilate a large group of humans at Wolf 359 and later in First Contact. Voyager and presumably Equinox arrived in the DQ in 2371 and the Voyager didn't encounter the Borg until their third season, placing it in 2373 I believe, perhaps around the same time as the events in First Contact so perhaps the Borg had already assimiliated those newer ships at the time they encountered Equinox?

But I don't mean to argue, I simply meant to suggest that the Borg may have detected the Equinox and simply deemed it unworthy of assimilation, and left them alone. Just because they hadn't seen a single cube doesn't mean the Borg hadn't seen them.

If the Borg are willing to assimilate the Raven, they'll definitely assimilate the Equinox. Voyager isn't even worthy of assimilation (proof of this can be found in Scorpion: Part I), but they kept trying anyway. I suspect it's because Voyager's part of the Federation. They can't have a species resisting them. It's bad for business.

 

[Cky]

I watched these episodes recently and I must admit, there was so much potential in this storyline. I mean Voyager ruined the Borg for us, and never really had that, superawesomeomgtheywillkillus thing, you know? I mean TNG had the Borg, DS9 had the Dominion, ENT had the Xindi (I think, I never really watched ENT). But Voyager had the Borg but ruined it completly. I mean honestly 1 ship taking on the Borg when we've seen 2 fleets of starships get their asses handed to them.

But I think this would have been amazing, Voyager chasing the Equinox around the Delta Quadrent.

I do think though, the Equinox crew seemed more... "real" than the Voyager crew. I mean Voyager's just seemed like a happy family, sometimes oblivious to the fact that they're far away from home. But the Equinox crew seem more, human so to speak. They actually seemed like it mattered to them that they were far away, and would do the human thing by exploiting anything to get back.

Just a quick question, does anyone know how long the Equinox was in the DQ for?

 

[Luminus]

I watched these episodes recently and I must admit, there was so much potential in this storyline. I mean Voyager ruined the Borg for us, and never really had that, superawesomeomgtheywillkillus thing, you know? I mean TNG had the Borg, DS9 had the Dominion, ENT had the Xindi (I think, I never really watched ENT). But Voyager had the Borg but ruined it completly. I mean honestly 1 ship taking on the Borg when we've seen 2 fleets of starships get their asses handed to them.

But I think this would have been amazing, Voyager chasing the Equinox around the Delta Quadrent.

I do think though, the Equinox crew seemed more... "real" than the Voyager crew. I mean Voyager's just seemed like a happy family, sometimes oblivious to the fact that they're far away from home. But the Equinox crew seem more, human so to speak. They actually seemed like it mattered to them that they were far away, and would do the human thing by exploiting anything to get back.

Just a quick question, does anyone know how long the Equinox was in the DQ for?

Equinox crew was definitely more realistic. But that's what happens when your ship doesn't spontaneously belch shuttles and new hull plating every week.

 

[Praetor]

For one it would have been around 9 years more advanced than the ships at Wolf 359, and the Borg may never have seen it before (unless the Nova class was involved in the First Contact battles). Any advance on the humans that the Borg have never been able to assimilate en masse I'm sure they would take.

But depending what you mean by 'en masse' the Borg did assimilate a large group of humans at Wolf 359 and later in First Contact. Voyager and presumably Equinox arrived in the DQ in 2371 and the Voyager didn't encounter the Borg until their third season, placing it in 2373 I believe, perhaps around the same time as the events in First Contact so perhaps the Borg had already assimiliated those newer ships at the time they encountered Equinox?

But I don't mean to argue, I simply meant to suggest that the Borg may have detected the Equinox and simply deemed it unworthy of assimilation, and left them alone. Just because they hadn't seen a single cube doesn't mean the Borg hadn't seen them.

If the Borg are willing to assimilate the Raven, they'll definitely assimilate the Equinox. Voyager isn't even worthy of assimilation (proof of this can be found in Scorpion: Part I), but they kept trying anyway. I suspect it's because Voyager's part of the Federation. They can't have a species resisting them. It's bad for business.

But isn't it implied that the Raven was the first human ship the Borg saw (presumably since the drones from 'Regeneration' reached them?) It's like if you haven't had steak in six months, and suddenly there's steak, you want steak, but if you're having steak for dinner every night, maybe you won't be so eager for it next time.

 

[Luminus]

But isn't it implied that the Raven was the first human ship the Borg saw (presumably since the drones from 'Regeneration' reached them?) It's like if you haven't had steak in six months, and suddenly there's steak, you want steak, but if you're having steak for dinner every night, maybe you won't be so eager for it next time.

That episode contradicts "Regeneration," and "Q Who?"

 

[Cky]

I watched these episodes recently and I must admit, there was so much potential in this storyline. I mean Voyager ruined the Borg for us, and never really had that, superawesomeomgtheywillkillus thing, you know? I mean TNG had the Borg, DS9 had the Dominion, ENT had the Xindi (I think, I never really watched ENT). But Voyager had the Borg but ruined it completly. I mean honestly 1 ship taking on the Borg when we've seen 2 fleets of starships get their asses handed to them.

But I think this would have been amazing, Voyager chasing the Equinox around the Delta Quadrent.

I do think though, the Equinox crew seemed more... "real" than the Voyager crew. I mean Voyager's just seemed like a happy family, sometimes oblivious to the fact that they're far away from home. But the Equinox crew seem more, human so to speak. They actually seemed like it mattered to them that they were far away, and would do the human thing by exploiting anything to get back.

Just a quick question, does anyone know how long the Equinox was in the DQ for?

Equinox crew was definitely more realistic. But that's what happens when your ship doesn't spontaneously belch shuttles and new hull plating every week.

Haha, yeah true.

And also the fact they replicate new crew members every week.

 

[Praetor]

But isn't it implied that the Raven was the first human ship the Borg saw (presumably since the drones from 'Regeneration' reached them?) It's like if you haven't had steak in six months, and suddenly there's steak, you want steak, but if you're having steak for dinner every night, maybe you won't be so eager for it next time.

That episode contradicts "Regeneration," and "Q Who?"

How? 'Regeneration' just shows they weren't the first human ship they assimilated, and you've stumped me how it contradicts 'Q Who?'

 

[Silversmok3]

Realistically,Voyager would have run out of shuttles and photon torpedos just in time to get to Borg space,and Equinox wouldn't stand much chance surviving in the Delta quad.

Even if both ships met as they did,being 65000 light years from home with zero backup would be good reason to 'pardon' Ransom in exchange for shutting down the drive,and gaining a wingman/backup starship in a very bad part of town,so to say.


As far as the Borg go ,if the whole of Starfleet had serious issues dealing with single cubes on one-way missions ,it stretches belief that even two ships,much less one could avoid assimilation in the Borg's living room.


Now that the real-world aspect has been explained,as written I like the episode laying out the classic (and cold) war of survival vs ethics.

Of course ethics(in the form of Voyager) had to win,but as shipwrecked sailors prove when you're starving to death morals are the first to go.As Ransom put it ,its easy to follow the rules when your stomach's full and the lights are on.
The only reason Voyager isn't in the same jam as Equinox is because Voyager must survive for the next episode.Its not to excuse Ransom's actions,as they were barbaric ,but when you're centuries from home and you're out of food its either barbarism or death.

And Voyager would realistically have had to break some serious rules to survive that long .But they're the 'good guys',so they spawn hull plating,bulkheads and shuttlecraft at will,and its the Equinox that must suffer from the reality of being stuck 65000 LY from home.

I'm theorize producers didn't expand on the Equinox arc because viewers would righty wonder what makes Voayger exempt from the consequences that bedevil Equinox.Why does one Starfleet ship end every episode shiny and happy,while another one is starving and damaged despite identical troubles and locations?

 

[Praetor]

I'm theorize producers didn't expand on the Equinox arc because viewers would righty wonder what makes Voayger exempt from the consequences that bedevil Equinox.Why does one Starfleet ship end every episode shiny and happy,while another one is starving and damaged despite identical troubles and locations?

I think you've just hit on my main problem with 'Voyager' as much as I love it.

 

[voyagerfan]

Why does one Starfleet ship end every episode shiny and happy,while another one is starving and damaged despite identical troubles and locations?

Neelix's root soup? whilst making seemingly endless crewmembers, make them happy