"Learning Curve": Something that just occurred to me.

[t_smitts]

Okay, so in one scene, Tuvok has the Maquis recruits undergo a Kobayashi Maru-type simulation where Voyager is overwhelmed by Romulan warbirds.

While they're quickly destroyed, the Maquis seem proud they "went out with phasers firing" and, not only did retreat not occur to any of them, but they seem appalled when Tuvok suggests it.

Now, granted none of these four probably had any sort of command experience, but for an organization like the Maquis, fighting an immensely superior enemy (the Cardassians), retreat would not only have been an option, but a very commonly used one. Hit and run operations probably would've been the norm.

Cal Hudson certainly wasn't above retreating. Neither was Tom Riker or Michael Eddington. Heck, the very first scene of the series depicted Chakotay's ship (which these four would've been aboard at the time) running away from a Cardassian ship!

So I don't why they seemed to be suggesting that retreat was unthinkable to the Maquis.

 

[hux]

The Maquis attracts idiots. Some of them can follow orders and do none idiot stuff (they get positions of authority) whereas the contribution of others consists of nothing more than being able to run naked into a battlefield shouting.....eat my hot angry plums, you Cardassian scum (they don't get positions of authority)

It's a mixed bag

None of Chakotay's men seemed especially brilliant Maquis (Chell??) Had Voyager remained in the Alpha quadrant, some of the crew would have been transferred (including Janeway if you ask me) so maybe it was the same for the Maquis?.....or maybe beggars can't be choosers

 

[Lynx]

^^
Not entirely correct. B'Elanna was smart.
Seska too, in her own way and I do think that Hogan and Jonas were smart too, otherwise they would never had key positions in Engineering.

Since the Maquis crew were about 30 people we have to consider that there were probably other Maquis too who did a good job, but we never got the chance to see them.

Don't forget that these four were hand-picked to this education because they were regarded as the Maquis who had most problems to adapt to the situation they were in.

Personally, I wish that we had seen more of Dalby, Gerron, Chell and Henley. They were good characters. In some of the Voyager books they are more prominent characters.

 

[propita]

Gotta give Chell some credit though. He fought for the Maquis. I can’t see him as a coward for doing that, you know?

 

[WarpTenLizard]

Okay, so in one scene, Tuvok has the Maquis recruits undergo a Kobayashi Maru-type simulation where Voyager is overwhelmed by Romulan warbirds.

While they're quickly destroyed, the Maquis seem proud they "went out with phasers firing" and, not only did retreat not occur to any of them, but they seem appalled when Tuvok suggests it.

Now, granted none of these four probably had any sort of command experience, but for an organization like the Maquis, fighting an immensely superior enemy (the Cardassians), retreat would not only have been an option, but a very commonly used one. Hit and run operations probably would've been the norm.

Cal Hudson certainly wasn't above retreating. Neither was Tom Riker or Michael Eddington. Heck, the very first scene of the series depicted Chakotay's ship (which these four would've been aboard at the time) running away from a Cardassian ship!

So I don't why they seemed to be suggesting that retreat was unthinkable to the Maquis.

Though I enjoy that episode, there were quite a few jarring behaviors from Chell, Henley, Gerron and Dalby, that seemed very un-Maquis.

I was surprised when they whined about the physical work Tuvko made them do. Aren't these people soldiers? Badasses? I guess they were in non-combat positions on Chakotay's ship. If all the Maquis were that wimpy, they'd have lost the war a lot sooner.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

The Voyager writers didn't understand the Maquis. They saw them more as pirate cliches than guerilla fighters. That scene where Chakotay punches out the guy and says "THAT IS THE MAQUIS WAY!" is cringe inducing.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

hux is right: organizations like the Maquis *do* tend to attract idiots. It'd be naive to assume that they were all in it for the greater good. Some of them are just violent sociopaths (Suder) who joined because they liked to kill; others, like Tom Paris, were just in it for the thrills; still others, like Eddington, joined out of pure ego.

And, yes, some (like Chakotay) really did care about what they were doing. But not all.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

It's true some people on the Maquis would be lazy idiots, but lazy idiots who are in the habit of acting quickly and quietly and running from superior force.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Paris would indeed know all about running. He got caught on his very first mission as a Maquis, didn't he?

That being said, it reminds me of my favorite line that Chakotay had in the entire series, when two of the other Maquis offer to support him in an insurrection: "If I ever hear you talk that way again, I will personally throw you in the brig for MUTINY."