Latecomer To This: JANEWAY DIED?!?

[captcalhoun]

the problem inherent with Janeway and her so-called rule-breaking is she says RIGHT THERE IN EPISODE ONE that they're going to follow Starfleet rules and regs., it is after all why she got her panties in a bunch over Ransom and the Equinox, and therefore, when she blatantly contradicts herself (in the Equinox two-parter when she effectively tortures Lessing for one) it makes her look completely unbalanced or hypocritical or insane. if it had been a straight linear progression of 'i'm going to stick to the rules' through to 'that ain't working, i'm doing anything it takes' it would've made more sense. but all that ridiculous flip-flopping between following and breaking the regs (in the same story even!) just makes her look bat-shit crazy.

plus, for all their urgency to get home there was far too much twatting around instead of just going for it and only stopping for supplies.

 

[joyofvgr]

This behavior is also the reason there's the mistaken impression on TrekBBS that there aren't many Janeway fans. There are but they have other more civil boards to hang out at.

And I'd like to know where those are because I have yet to find one. Every board I have ever been on has opinionated people on it including those that have a lot of Voyager fans and nobody can tell me that Voyager fans are nicer than any other group of Trek fans. It's just not been my experience in almost 15 years of using the Internet.

Kevin

The VAMB board is very civil but you probably wouldn't like it becasue it's full of all those "militant Janeway fans" you're so afraid of.

That's just it. There are plenty of Janeway fans, but we get tired of constantly arguing and there is a safe haven where we can go to where everyone is just as much a fan of that character and series as we are. There's no point in going where our presence is only going to cause a fight, when there's a viable alternative and the atmosphere is pleasant. However, when I find out that the books are taking a direction I don't like with a character I love, I will enter and voice my opinion. I think at that point it's important that TPTB know that we are out there and we are watching.

Actually, I find that the niners (DS9 fans) are the most aggressive. Many times on ST.Com they come to the Voyager thread for the sole purpose of bashing the show. That's been my experience anyway, but I've only been on the boards for a little more than 6 months.

 

[kimc]

the problem inherent with Janeway and her so-called rule-breaking is she says RIGHT THERE IN EPISODE ONE that they're going to follow Starfleet rules and regs., it is after all why she got her panties in a bunch over Ransom and the Equinox, and therefore, when she blatantly contradicts herself (in the Equinox two-parter when she effectively tortures Lessing for one) it makes her look completely unbalanced or hypocritical or insane. if it had been a straight linear progression of 'i'm going to stick to the rules' through to 'that ain't working, i'm doing anything it takes' it would've made more sense. but all that ridiculous flip-flopping between following and breaking the regs (in the same story even!) just makes her look bat-shit crazy.

plus, for all their urgency to get home there was far too much twatting around instead of just going for it and only stopping for supplies.

If she had done a philosophical about face ten minutes after being stranded now THAT would have been looney. Also, all that "twatting around instead of just going for it" would have denied them the opportunities they did have to cut time off their journey:

1) The Void: Cut 2,500 light years off their journey. If they had just ignored the aliens they met in there they would not have gotten the location.

2) Dark Frontier: Cut 20,000 light years when they stole a transwarp coil from the borg.

3) Voyager Conspiracy: Stopped to help an alien named Tash and got to use his graviton catapault cutting another 600 light years.

Etc, etc.

Now on the other hand Ransom and the Equinox crew just went for it and stopped only for supplies. Look how well that worked for them!

 

[Therin of Andor]

I know there are plenty of other male fans of Janway so to dismiss them just because they don't post here regularly is ridiculous.

But there are plenty of male Janeway fans among the regulars right here! Me, for one, and Christopher for another.

My crime against "militant Janeway fans" is that I accept that her recent death in "Before Dishonor" was an interesting development for the licensed tie-ins. Our collective crime is that the regulars on this board are supposedly not accepting of new fans to this board who disagree with us and that, by saying so, we "shut down" their opinions.

I'm willing to imagine that very few members of the VAMB board you mention ever read the licensed tie-in VOY books, so find little reason to come here. If they were passionate about VOY novels, they'd have been here ages ago.

That's just it. There are plenty of Janeway fans, but we get tired of constantly arguing and there is a safe haven where we can go to where everyone is just as much a fan of that character and series as we are.

And maybe new visitors to that board find themselves out of their depth because they don't love the same characters for the same reasons?

What's the point of a "safe haven" discussion board where no one has a different point of view?

 

[kimc]

I know there are plenty of other male fans of Janway so to dismiss them just because they don't post here regularly is ridiculous.

But there are plenty of male Janeway fans among the regulars right here! Me, for one, and Christopher for another.

My crime against "militant Janeway fans" is that I accept that her recent death in "Before Dishonor" was an interesting development for the licensed tie-ins.Our collective crime is that the regulars on this board are supposedly not accepting of new fans to this board who disagree with us and that, by saying so, we "shut down" their opinions.

I'm willing to imagine that very few members of the VAMB board you mention ever read the licensed tie-in VOY books, so find little reason to come here. If they were passionate about VOY novels, they'd have been here ages ago.

As was pointed out in the carrot thread many of the VAMB member already own most of the Voyager books and saw no point in buying second copies. Just because you read the books doesn't mean you're going to post about them here. You can post about them elsewhere just as well.

So there are some fans who don't agree with the decision to kill her off. It's a difference of opinion. Why make it more than that?

 

[Trek]

So there are some fans who don't agree with the decision to kill her off. It's a difference of opinion. Why make it more than that?

That's the trouble though, there have been several people posting in this thread (and the others like it) who have made it more than that.

 

[joyofvgr]

I'm willing to imagine that very few members of the VAMB board you mention ever read the licensed tie-in VOY books, so find little reason to come here. If they were passionate about VOY novels, they'd have been here ages ago.

That's just it. There are plenty of Janeway fans, but we get tired of constantly arguing and there is a safe haven where we can go to where everyone is just as much a fan of that character and series as we are.

And maybe new visitors to that board find themselves out of their depth because they don't love the same characters for the same reasons?

What's the point of a "safe haven" discussion board where no one has a different point of view?

I for one have only read the relaunch novels, but I can assure you that the other members of Vamb have read many of the published books.

I actually enjoy debating and the alternate point of view. I do enough of it on St.com. I actually find it a lot more interesting. In fact I have a "best friend" on that board and we never agree about anything. It's become quite a joke. I've looked at this board before, but quite frankly nothing has really peaked my interest until now. There are also plenty of other Trek boards out there to chose from. This is not the only place to discuss Trek.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Just because you read the books doesn't mean you're going to post about them here. You can post about them elsewhere just as well.

The point is, why don't some VOY fans who read books feel the need to visit boards which discuss VOY novels? Rather than accuse the regulars here of always closing down their opinions, there may be hundreds of other reasons, including that they just aren't terribly passionate about the licensed tie-ins?

So there are some fans who don't agree with the decision to kill her off. It's a difference of opinion. Why make it more than that?

Because it's a separate issue. VAMB members-who-also-read-VOY-books supposedly felt unwelcome here long before Janeway died.

 

[Therin of Andor]

I actually enjoy debating and the alternate point of view. I do enough of it on St.com. I actually find it a lot more interesting. In fact I have a "best friend" on that board and we never agree about anything.

And yet you said, "we get tired of constantly arguing and there is a safe haven where we can go to where everyone is just as much a fan of that character and series as we are."

 

[joyofvgr]

I actually enjoy debating and the alternate point of view. I do enough of it on St.com. I actually find it a lot more interesting. In fact I have a "best friend" on that board and we never agree about anything.

And yet you said, "we get tired of constantly arguing and there is a safe haven where we can go to where everyone is just as much a fan of that character and series as we are."

Exactly. I do enough debating on ST.com and I enjoy it. But it gets tiring. I really did not want to join yet another board where I would be constantly forced to defend my position. So when I get tired, I can sneak away to the safehaven of Vamb where people share my opinion.

Now like I said, I enjoy debating, but I'm sure that there are those of us who don't or have had enough of it, so they simply don't come around unless they feel the need to.

 

[Marie1]

I don't remember Endgame, was VOY supposed to travel for 16 more years? Was Janeway supposed to be there? Or maybe Janeway, Q or old Janeway altered the timeline?

http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Endgame_(episode)

That link was terrible!
http://www.geocities.com/sp_ons/trekbbs-games/wiki.jpg



But thanks, I found it and am reading it...

 

[Therin of Andor]

I'm sure that there are those of us who don't or have had enough of it, so they simply don't come around unless they feel the need to.

But don't blame us because we are supposedly unwelcoming. And I'm not necessary speaking to you, personally, here.

The regulars in TrekLit often don't agree with each other about many things. It's not as if we lie in wait for unsuspecting Janeway fans to stumble in sounding helpless.

Although recent happenings in these threads have certainly been tempting because it's all been so... surreal.

 

[Therin of Andor]

But thanks, I found it and am reading it...

The auto hyperlink feature missed the last parenthesis. That's all. Tried to fix the original link, but cutting and pasting will be needed.

 

[joyofvgr]

I'm sure that there are those of us who don't or have had enough of it, so they simply don't come around unless they feel the need to.

But don't blame us because we are supposedly unwelcoming. And I'm not necessary speaking to you, personally, here.

The regulars in TrekLit often don't agree with each other about many things. It's not as if we lie in wait for unsuspecting Janeway fans to stumble in sounding helpless.

Although recent happenings in these threads have certainly been tempting because it's all been so... surreal.

I wasn't blaming anybody for being unwelcoming or any such thing, although I noted that you weren't necessarily addressing me personally here. I also didn't assume that you any of you were out to get us. I was simply offering up an explanation as to why there might not be that many Janeway fans on this board, using myself as an example.

I don't know anything about you or even who the regulars are here, and I am not one to jump to conclusions. I was simply communicating how I felt and my reasons for not joining sooner. However, I do recognize many names on this board, so I have a feeling I know more people here than I realized.

 

[Therin of Andor]

I am not one to jump to conclusions.

No, but you have jumped all the previous accusations by others throughout this thread and other recent ones.

Lucky, eh?

 

[joyofvgr]

I guess so. Unfortunately I have also joined in the middle of a controversy and I am clearly on one side of that controversy. So if I'm off to a bad start here, I apologize. I am not looking to add fuel to the fire, just letting the world know there is one more Janeway fan out there.

 

[Brit]

So there are some fans who don't agree with the decision to kill her off. It's a difference of opinion. Why make it more than that?

Because it's a separate issue. VAMB members-who-also-read-VOY-books supposedly felt unwelcome here long before Janeway died.

Actually Therin is very right, there are numerous Janeway fans that don't post here. They have looked at this board over the years and decided that it was and is anti Janeway. I know many have said she has fans here and I acknowledge that, but the simple fact is the vast majority of Janeway fans do not like the atmosphere of this board.

A Voyager BNF told me yesterday in fact during a mIRC chat session "I don't know how you stand it over there."

I'm not trying to cause trouble over this, I'm simply trying to get you all to understand that there are a lot of Trek fans that feel disenfranchised by the larger General Trek Boards. We were made fun of, and told we were stupid for liking Janeway so we made our own boards. Not one of us would be here now but for "Before Dishonor" and the fact that here in this forum people were saying she is dead and she is going to stay dead.

Someone said either in this thread or the other one, that he didn't know of any Trek boards that got along. Well I can name three, I PMed them to KimC so she can see them. They are two private boards and one Yahoo Group. I can tell you something about the larger of the boards: it has (and I just checked) over 359,000 posts and well over 19,000 topics and less than ten of those topics have been locked (I really think the actual total is five or six but I could be wrong).

We would have loved to discuss Christie Golden's books with all of you. I read them, but the Borg Queen stuff in them kind of put me off. For instance, I cannot suspend my disbelief enough to think an adult female can be turned into a Borg Queen any more than adult bees can become Queen Bees. So that was my squick about her books. We were eagerly awaiting Kirsten Beyer's book before we discovered that Janeway wouldn't be brought back.

Brit

 

[Therin of Andor]

They are two private boards and one Yahoo Group.

Well there you go. They are not open to casual readers, so you have to already be a passionate VOY fan to hear about them, join them, be accepted. That eliminates most possibilities of drive-by potshots from passersby. Non-VOY ST fan are never going to be in there.

Yahoo Groups are an annoyance. If the originator scarpers they just become spam fests.

People from here, who often read all TrekLit, are not going to feel at home on a board that discusses only VOY, or at least sets out to discuss only VOY. And the only members from there who are going to want to hang out on a TrekLit board for discussing licensed TrekLit are those who read and enjoy licensed VOY TrekLit.

Janeway fans who are passionate about the licensed TrekLit might well find that they feel less-informed about other TrekLit. So it's only going to take one or too slightly negative comments for them to decide this place is not for them. That doesn't mean we are not welcoming. We probably just have less to offer them than general TrekLit fans will find here.

We would have loved to discuss Christie Golden's books with all of you. I read them, but the Borg Queen stuff in them kind of put me off.

You didn't notice that, despite their good sales records, those novels aren't universally well liked on this board anyway? "We" doesn't come into it if you're answering only for you.

 

[DimesDan]

We would have loved to discuss Christie Golden's books with all of you. I read them, but the Borg Queen stuff in them kind of put me off.

You didn't notice that, despite their good sales records, those novels aren't universally well liked on this board anyway? "We" doesn't come into it if you're answering only for you.

I personally would love to have read what happened after Endgame for the Voyager crew, but I was put off Ms Golden's story telling, first with the first Dark Matter book and then a few years later with the Final Round Up. I confess I'm not a massive Voyager fan, but over the years it has grown on me and other than the two Deep Space Nine books out this year, I'm really looking forward to Full Circle.

 

[Ktrek]

My apologies for the long quote but this was a MAN talking about why he liked Janeway as a character and why he liked writing her. I know there are plenty of other male fans of Janway so to dismiss them just because they don't post here regularly is ridiculous.

Once again that was Star Trek Magazine (March 2009) Bryan Fuller interviewed by **rifles through magazine** well, sombody.

The article you refer to was written by Jill Sherwin and if you had read Paul Simpson's thread here in Treklit about the latest Voyager issue you would have probably noted that Jill's conversation with Bryan Fuller I thought was a standout and made a point to say so.

Granted, there are some male fans who do not like Janeway. It would be interesting to maybe do a poll here at Treklit, but I happen to be one who is a male fan and have gone on record to say so.

I have also stated clearly in the past dialog that if it had been up to me I probably would not have killed off Janeway. That said though, I am not so narrow minded to think that good story possibilities cannot exist without her. She is not Voyager and Voyager does not equal Janeway. Even if she were still alive in the books she still would not be captain of the ship. So her role in the Voyager books would take at best a secondary role as the Voyager story moves forward with old and new crew members.

Kevin