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Lane-splitting

Should lane-splitting be legal in your area? State why in the thread.

  • It is legal in my area, and I think it should be.

    Votes: 5 10.0%
  • It is legal in my area, and I do not think it should be.

    Votes: 11 22.0%
  • It is not legal in my area, and I think it should be.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • It is not legal in my area, and I do not think it should be.

    Votes: 34 68.0%

  • Total voters
    50
I've been riding for seven years, and I sure as HELL would NEVER ride between two cars. It's a body-bag waiting to happen.

The whole concept goes against every principal of motorcycle safety I ever learned.

I can see why someone wouldn't want to split between moving cars...but why wouldn't you at least want to filter through stopped traffic at a red light? Wouldn't you feel better being at the front of a pack of traffic rather than in between a bunch of cars?

Because that's 90% of the splitting I do; filtering through stopped traffic. That's the point I'm trying to get across...you all act like I fly and zip and speed or whatever verb you want to use to describe doing things quickly and recklessly when that isn't he truth. I only do it wen traffic is stopped and or creeping slowly. Yet everyone insists on describing it with all these exaggerating verbs.
 
People are describing that based on their experiences and the video that you linked.

This, exactly.

Flux, when you posted that video of the very irresponsible driver, you said this:

This is actually a really good example of safe and prudent lane splitting on a surface street. Well, up until the end, but for the majority he does things very similarly to how I would.

You told us that what you saw in the video was safe, prudent, and that you would behave the same way. We've been telling you, since then, why that is such a terrible idea.
 
And I've already admitted that the video wasn't the best example. Why not go by my description of how I do it rather than a video of a guy who I have already conceded was not the best example?

And 'll say again, if you're going to make judgments based on a video why not watch the one I posted originally? Here it is, embedded since nobody seems to be willing to go back and find the link.

[yt]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNGD9AAIfFU[/yt]

If you want to pick a video apart, use this one. These are professional riders advocating lane splitting. Go ahead and call the idiots but they know what they're doing. Novices they are not.
 
I've been riding for seven years, and I sure as HELL would NEVER ride between two cars. It's a body-bag waiting to happen.

The whole concept goes against every principal of motorcycle safety I ever learned.

I can see why someone wouldn't want to split between moving cars...but why wouldn't you at least want to filter through stopped traffic at a red light? Wouldn't you feel better being at the front of a pack of traffic rather than in between a bunch of cars?

Because that's 90% of the splitting I do; filtering through stopped traffic. That's the point I'm trying to get across...you all act like I fly and zip and speed or whatever verb you want to use to describe doing things quickly and recklessly when that isn't he truth. I only do it wen traffic is stopped and or creeping slowly. Yet everyone insists on describing it with all these exaggerating verbs.
At a red light, I take my fucking place in line, just like every other properly-trained motorist.

I sure-as-hell wouldn't want a car passing between my motorcyle and another car in between our lanes, why the hell would I want to pass between two cars in between their lanes?

I mean, I've got my organ-donor box checked on the back of my license, but I'm in no hurry for someone to put it to use.
 
I don't want to pick a video apart. And I'm not interested in arguing with you because you don't have a good track record of productive conversations. You appeared confused over something simple (why people were insisting on using "exaggerating verbs"), so I attempted to explain it.

Really you should have done a video of the way you lane split and titled the thread "Should lane splitting the way I do it be legal?"

I'm not even 100% anti lane splitting if someone like Pingfah says that there are circumstances where it's appropriate, because I trust his judgment more. You're just going around in circles.
 
^^ :lol:

^ Good idea in theory, but if he's finding these videos to be good examples I'm not sure I'd feel good encouraging him even that little bit...

And 'll say again, if you're going to make judgments based on a video why not watch the one I posted originally? Here it is, embedded since nobody seems to be willing to go back and find the link.

That video... whiny much? :wtf:
 
Care to explain what your problem with it is?

Really you should have done a video of the way you lane split and titled the thread "Should lane splitting the way I do it be legal?"

I plan on doing just that. I have a helmet cam on the ol' Christmas list and will end up getting one at some point one way or the other.

At a red light, I take my fucking place in line, just like every other properly-trained motorist.

I sure-as-hell wouldn't want a car passing between my motorcyle and another car in between our lanes, why the hell would I want to pass between two cars in between their lanes?

I mean, I've got my organ-donor box checked on the back of my license, but I'm in no hurry for someone to put it to use.

The thing is...a car wouldn't be able to pass between you because it's not small enough. Are you not wary of a rear-end incident? When I don't have opportunity to filter and just sit in traffic, I'm always having to check behind m and keep the bike in gear at all times. It makes sitting at a light as well as taking off when it goes green easier for me and takes that element away.

For the record I'm not criticizing your choice, i' simply try to understand the choice.
 
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A guy I used to know that rode told me this:

There are 2 kinds of motorcycle riders, those that have wrecked and those that will.
 
Accidents, by definition, are accidental.

Another stooge falling for the lies of the liberal media! :lol:

Well, my point was that, people can talk about how things will go well, if people do thus-and-so, but it's when things don't go according to plan that accidents happen.

One of the things I've learned in this thread is that, in addition to actually being unsafe, the behavior in this video is contrary to the CHP guidelines for how to lane-split safely, in doing it at more than 10mph above the speed of the cars, which this nutcase clearly does. So, thanks for the opportunity to learn more about lane-splitting! :cool:
 
Damn, I go out for a day and the thread turns into this:

[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqs9DYisSsg[/yt]

:lol: :techman:

[yt]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNGD9AAIfFU[/yt]

If you want to pick a video apart, use this one. These are professional riders advocating lane splitting. Go ahead and call the idiots but they know what they're doing. Novices they are not.

Emphasis mine. This is where the problem with you is, Flux. Not everyone is going to be a professional or experienced motorcycle driver -- we've already established that you are neither. That aside, I don't give two shits if the experts in the field advocate it - goody for them. The point is not every driver is a professional at it or an expert (ahem, you) and therefore will be more likely to cause, be in or be the victim of more accidents. THAT'S why lane-splitting is fucking stupid.
 
Damn, I go out for a day and the thread turns into this:

:lol: :techman:

If you want to pick a video apart, use this one. These are professional riders advocating lane splitting. Go ahead and call the idiots but they know what they're doing. Novices they are not.

Emphasis mine. This is where the problem with you is, Flux. Not everyone is going to be a professional or experienced motorcycle driver -- we've already established that you are neither. That aside, I don't give two shits if the experts in the field advocate it - goody for them. The point is not every driver is a professional at it or an expert (ahem, you) and therefore will be more likely to cause, be in or be the victim of more accidents. THAT'S why lane-splitting is fucking stupid.
Additionally, however expert they may be, the insistence on lane splitting ignores the effect on the cars around who have to avoid the idiots trying to turn two lanes into three and forcing drivers to shift position abruptly and increase the likelihood of accidents. And no amount of expertise will help them know what the drivers up ahead will do, or what effect they will have on drivers they surprise while coming between. They are three expert idiots. It's just a philosophy of great for me, and to hell with everyone else on the road.
 
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And I've already admitted that the video wasn't the best example. Why not go by my description of how I do it rather than a video of a guy who I have already conceded was not the best example?

And 'll say again, if you're going to make judgments based on a video why not watch the one I posted originally? Here it is, embedded since nobody seems to be willing to go back and find the link.

[yt]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNGD9AAIfFU[/yt]

If you want to pick a video apart, use this one. These are professional riders advocating lane splitting. Go ahead and call the idiots but they know what they're doing. Novices they are not.

I watched the bulk of that video, really it seemed to me to be a some arrogant bikers trying to advocate for their behavior just so they can do reckless stuff by encroaching on the space between cars to get ahead in line. They even used that lovely "we're helping YOU by easing congestion!" argument I don't buy. As I doubt the handful of motorcycles lane-splitting/filtering/whatever in a city full of cars is really making that much of an impact on congestion. Also in some of their footage of lane-splitting I (again!) see them splitting lanes in pretty light, well moving, traffic. Not in congestion. Light traffic that I assume is going at or near the speed-limit and not 10-under or whatever conditions might be needed to warrant lane-splitting.

Filtering I could probably get behind but only, as I was trying to say above, to the "next safest spot" and not through a long line of cars to the intersection. This a)is basically cutting in line. I think the cyclist can wait to see if he makes the light just like everyone else but mostly b)it still brings up the problem of the cyclist misjudging his space and scuffing a car, clipping a wing-mirror, injuring someone who may have their arm outside resting on the window-sill, spooking someone who's still crawling or moving (who may then crash or run into the cyclist) or any number of things. Hell, why not "filter" until you find an open spot in the line of cars? Most of the time anymore I see people stopped a full car-length behind the person in-front of them!

And, Flux, it seems like you're moving the goal posts on us. Because for the bulk of this conversation (and the other lane-splitting convo in the other thread) you seemed to give the impression you do this while moving at speed in "slow" traffic. Arguing for the 10-over aspect. The video(s) you posted even supported this. I know you've now recanted on it but you *did* say that the helmet-cam video is similar to how you do (or would) ride. Taking aside all of the stuff the guy did that people have a problem with he WAS riding between cars at speed. Not filtering or at least trying to get through very slow-moving traffic.

I'm pretty sure most people don't have too much a problem with some level of filtering at lights or easy lane-splitting in crawling traffic (especially on the highway or a road with few stops where the lanes are usually a bit wider) but it seems kind of dangerous for all parties involved to do it in traffic that is moving along nicely even if it might be slightly slower than the posted limit. Again, calling out that now recanted video, traffic seemed to moving along fairly nicely considering it's apparently a busy street in LA during what looked like rush-hour (or at least early sunset/early evening.)

It's one thing for a rider to filter/lane-split for his own safety when stopping or in very-slow moving traffic but to do it during moving traffic just because one can and wants to cut his commute-time down into a third that's kind of the problem I think people have. If riders and cars are to "share the road" it seems silly to give riders the extra power of being able to speed along 10 miles an hour faster than everyone else who happen to, at the very least of situations, be going 30 on a 40mph road. I know that can be aggravating and I can't tell you how many times I've wanted to speed down the empty chicken-lane to get in further down the line, but it's part of driving in traffic. I just don't see why a motorcyclist should get special privileges. If he can move along, all be it slower than posted, with traffic safely then he should be doing so.

If it's very heavy, stop and go, and absolutely crawling I can see the safety needs. But, again, if things are moving along why can't the cyclist be stuck in slow traffic with the rest of us?

The rider should be safe, absolutely, but I don't think zipping 10 miles an hour faster than every one else, between cars, in dense traffic is "being safe."
 
I stopped watching the pro video as soon as one of the speakers said that lane-splitting at 15-20 mph faster than the car traffic is "safer" (around 3:37). Whether they are a pro or not, that assertion is total bullshit full stop, and it's contrary to CHP guidelines, which matters since they are talking about lane-splitting in Los Angeles. Also, gotta love the implication that car drivers can't correctly tell what is and isn't dangerous, because they're sheltered from the environment. Pass.
 
And 'll say again, if you're going to make judgments based on a video why not watch the one I posted originally? Here it is, embedded since nobody seems to be willing to go back and find the link.

[yt]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNGD9AAIfFU[/yt]

If you want to pick a video apart, use this one. These are professional riders advocating lane splitting. Go ahead and call the idiots but they know what they're doing. Novices they are not.

That video doesn't show them driving for more than three seconds. How is it possible to actually tell how they drive based on that?
 
And I've already admitted that the video wasn't the best example. Why not go by my description of how I do it rather than a video of a guy who I have already conceded was not the best example?

Because your original description of how you do it was --in your own words-- exactly like it was shown in the video that you again asked us to critique. Then, when people started criticizing what was happening in the video, suddenly your whole story changed and that was no longer indicative of how you split-lanes and you started getting indignant about people critiquing the video just like you asked them to do.

That's pretty typical Flux. Lots of goalpost moving and only posting the thread in the hope of getting Yes Men to reaffirm your own opinion. There's never any actual desire to listen or learn and alter your established position.

And 'll say again, if you're going to make judgments based on a video why not watch the one I posted originally? Here it is, embedded since nobody seems to be willing to go back and find the link.

[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNGD9AAIfFU[/yt]

If you want to pick a video apart, use this one. These are professional riders advocating lane splitting. Go ahead and call the idiots but they know what they're doing. Novices they are not.
Of course, if people don't agree with you it must be because they ignored the link. It can't just be that they think you're wrong or anything like that.

Fine, I'll pick apart this one too:

1) They're experienced professional riders, you are neither. Nor are most riders pros either.

2) The guy in the black leather jacket immediately opens up by bragging about the huge stack of tickets he's gotten for reckless driving for lane-splitting in New York, which basically establishes that he doesn't give a shit about the law, he's gotta be free and can do whatever the fuck he wants. Arrogant and reckless, despite his claims to the contrary. Drivers in New York, unlike the half of drivers in California who know the law, are even less expectant of motorcyclists splitting lanes because it's against the law there. So this douche is endangering himself and them because he thinks he's above the law.

3) Right away they show a video of the motorcycles weaving in and out of moving traffic and then cutting into the bicycle lane, which is illegal and dangerous as hell for the bicyclists, two of which he sped by on his much larger motorcycle. So for all the whining about how motorcycles are smaller and more vulnerable than cars, the first chance he gets, he guns it past two smaller, more vulnerable bicycles and endangers their riders. Not to mention how scary and distracting it must be for the bicyclists to have a motorcycle zip by unexpectedly in the bike lane, where they're not supposed to be.

4) Again, they were lane-splitting in perfectly fast-moving traffic half the time. It's one thing when it's stop and go, but if the cars are moving at a decent pace, why are you taking a risk and splitting-lanes to get a little bit of a time savings? That just shows that it's all about feeling entitled to go faster and not have to move with the flow of traffic.

5) A couple of times they were weaving in an out of traffic again instead of just staying in a single corridor between lanes.

6) The video itself points out that the centerline paint has less traction than the surrounding asphalt, so you shouldn't ride on it. Which means that you're going to be leaning further to the left or right of the lane and closer to clipping other cars. It also means that if you do cross the centerline and need to maneuver, you have less acceleration and braking control than normal and therefor less reaction time.

7) He lane-split a narrow gap between a car and a big truck, which strikes me as extremely dangerous.

8) They were all on smaller crotch rocket type bikes that have a lot more space to fit between the cars than your bike does. Also, they're faster and more maneuverable, and the rider sits in a leaning forward position which I suspect grants greater focus on the road ahead and a faster reaction time than a more laid back style of riding.

9) There's not all that much lane-splitting in the video (maybe less than a minute out the entire 14), so it's kind of a waste of time.
 
I watched the whole video, suffering through accents and biker arrogance, and pretty much echo what Lo. said. The "lane-splitting" they were doing didn't seem to be within the California guidelines.

1) Travel at a speed that is no more than 10 MPH faster than other traffic – danger increases at higher speed differentials.

This one is hard to judge given no helmet-cams to glimpse speedometers or anything else to really gauge the speeds. But the black-jacket cocky guy does say something about splitting at 15-20 over! Which, Jesus Christ, is just asking for trouble should something unexpected happen. Let's max-out the situation between this guy's claims on what he does and say the road's speed limit ids 45 (about the highest you're likely to see on a city road that's not a highway or a commercial or residential street.) Traffic is creeping along at 25 miles an hour and biker-guy is going 45. That's moving 66 feet per second, something like 5 or 6 car-lengths. That seems like a pretty narrow margin of error to see a hazard pop-up, make a decision, and then react to it. You know what also takes people a second or two to react to? A light changing from red to green. Even halving that to CA-law of 10-over that still 33 feet per second which is 3 car-lengths.

Strikes me as dangerous to be moving that fast over everyone else in a situation where anything can happen at any moment.

2) It is not advisable to lane split when traffic flow is at 30 mph or faster --- danger increases as overall speed increases.

The helmet-cam video and street video from the WebSeries link appeared to have traffic moving along nicely. There was some video of pretty nicely and steadily moving traffic apparently on a highway. Plenty of lane-splitting going with the bikes over-taking cars that are now probably going anywhere between 45 and 65 miles an hour considering we're now talking about a highway in pretty light conditions. The helmet-cam video (recanted) was on a street with a speed limit at 35 where, again, it seemed like traffic was decent and not creeping along. Between lights it seemed like traffic was meeting the speed limit, maybe slightly under but didn't strike me as going too bad.

3) Typically, it is safer to split between the #1 and #2 lanes than between other lanes.

I'm guessing the rationale behind this falls under the "pass on the left" category. The WebSeries video seemed to mostly follow this. Not sure why it's limited to the #1 and #2 lanes, seems to me going one step to the left would put you between the breakdown lane/shoulder and the #1 lane. This would cut in half the number of cars you'd need to worry about and also give you an emergency place to ditch to should something unexpected happen. The only problem with this could be how much the rumble-strip reaches between the shoulder and the lane-line.

While talking about the lane-line, the annotation in the WebSeries video says something about the lines on the roadway giving you less traction. Which... okay.... I guess that could, technically, be true by virtue of "there's more stuff here than just asphalt" kind of way. But I can't see it being that big of a difference and, as Lo. said, being off the painted line means encroaching more in the lane itself.

4) Consider the total environment in which you are splitting, including the width of the lanes, size of surrounding vehicles, as well as roadway, weather, and lighting conditions.

Not too much to say on this without going back to that recanted helmet cam video where the rider seemed to encroach on some vehicles not over far enough including a school bus.

Yeah, the more helmet-cam videos I watch on YT, the more stuff I read on this the more I don't think I can see this as being a good, smart or all-that "safe" a practice in the vast majority of situations. "Going with the flow" in slow or stopped traffic to prevent a rear-end collision? Sure. But most of what I've seen is people doing it to overtake cars in pretty steady traffic in either light or even fairly heavy conditions. As far as I'm concerned that's not in the "spirit" of why this is done and is just being an ass in a narrow vehicle.

Do it to be safe in slow/stopped traffic? Sure. Knock yourself out. Do it in order to overtake cars to shave your commute time into a third of what it would be in a car? Eat pavement.
 
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