Lane-splitting

[CorporalCaptain]

FWIW, teh wiki has this to say, with citations:

The legal confusion in Australia is not exceptional. In a 2012 California survey only 53% of non-motorcycle drivers knew lane splitting is legal.[57] No law explicitly and clearly prohibits lane splitting, and it has become the policy of law enforcement, the courts, and the public in California to tolerate it when it is done safely. However, those engaged in unsafe behavior, including unsafe lane splitting, can still be cited for violating certain sections of the vehicle code.[58] Motorcycle safety author and consultant Pat Hahn wrote in his 50-state handbook of US motorcycling laws that:

"Lane sharing with vehicles other than motorcycles is not legal anywhere, including California. However, it is tolerated in California to large degree" and that "California is the only state in the country that allows lane splitting, lane sharing, and filtering. However, contrary to legend, it is not legal. Nor is it illegal. It falls in a gray area unique to California … You can (and will) get stopped and cited if you're riding like an ass."[59]

California has no laws explicitly prohibiting lane splitting, and is the only U.S. state in which it is officially stated that lane splitting, when done safely, is legal.[60][61]

California is not the only state in which there is no traffic law that explicitly prohibits lane splitting,[38][40][43][62] but officials rely on other laws to regularly interpret lane splitting as unlawful.[43] For example, New Mexico does not address lane splitting by name, but has language requiring turn signals be used continuously for at least 100 ft (30 m) before changing lanes,[63] as well as other codes which may be cited by an officer.[58][64] Many other states have identical codes, derived from the Uniform Vehicle Code.[65]

 

[Tiberius Jim]

Yes, because Wikipedia is such a trusted source of information.

From the California Highway Patrol guidelines page:

Lane splitting in a safe and prudent manner is not illegal in the state of California.

 

[Gov Kodos]

A still shot makes it hard to judge how the flow of traffic would work at that intersection, anyway. Plus, the photo is taken out of context. How are we to know if this is a typical situation at this intersection? Go to the Bay Area on the same day as a 49ers game and you'll see conditions you wouldn't normally get on any other day. And trying to say that one photo of one messy intersection in Bangkok destroys all notion that lane splitting can be a good thing is asinine at best.

The video I posted in the OP really does explain things better than I can. Watching that rather than picking apart every nuance of that guy's commute would serve the discussion much better.

From someone who would take the "Who does he think he is getting in front of ME?!" attitude, yeah I can see how it would seem annoying.

So respect the vehicles in front and stop weaving through traffic. You clearly feel those cars have no business in front and should make way for you.

I don't feel that way at all. It's not about who's "business" it is to be up there. I can fit up there and it is safer for me to be at the front of the pack of cars rather than in the middle of them, so I am going to put myself in the best position I can to be safe once that light goes green. If someone is going to get pissed because they're stuck 10 cars deep and I am able to move my way up, they should look into getting their Class M endorsement.

So, it is all about you, and what you want. Everyone else is safer to not have vehicles weaving through lanes, but screw them.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

Just to make my previous point more relevant to your situation, Flux, this is a picture of a California highway:

Freedom!

Here's a regular California street:

Safe!

Ah, look at that congestion free highway:

Clear!

I appreciate the point you're trying to make, J., but unfortunately none of those are from California. Our traffic, bad as it is, is much more orderly than that.

 

[Tiberius Jim]

A still shot makes it hard to judge how the flow of traffic would work at that intersection, anyway. Plus, the photo is taken out of context. How are we to know if this is a typical situation at this intersection? Go to the Bay Area on the same day as a 49ers game and you'll see conditions you wouldn't normally get on any other day. And trying to say that one photo of one messy intersection in Bangkok destroys all notion that lane splitting can be a good thing is asinine at best.

The video I posted in the OP really does explain things better than I can. Watching that rather than picking apart every nuance of that guy's commute would serve the discussion much better.

So respect the vehicles in front and stop weaving through traffic. You clearly feel those cars have no business in front and should make way for you.

I don't feel that way at all. It's not about who's "business" it is to be up there. I can fit up there and it is safer for me to be at the front of the pack of cars rather than in the middle of them, so I am going to put myself in the best position I can to be safe once that light goes green. If someone is going to get pissed because they're stuck 10 cars deep and I am able to move my way up, they should look into getting their Class M endorsement.

So, it is all about you, and what you want. Everyone else is safer to not have vehicles weaving through lanes, but screw them.

Yep, you're right. It's not that I am more vulnerable on a bike and thus want to take steps to make myself less so. And more so, I am the only person in the entire state of California who takes advantage of the ability to lane split. Well, just me and that idiot from the video.

You all say I'm ignoring your points of view, and then turn around and not only ignore mine but then act like I am the only person, ever, who could possibly hold such an opinion.

Just to make my previous point more relevant to your situation, Flux, this is a picture of a California highway:

[A picture that is clearly not taken in California]

Freedom!

Here's a regular California street:
[A picture that is clearly not taken in California]

Safe!

Ah, look at that congestion free highway:

[A picture that is clearly not taken in California]

Clear!

In short, Flux, your argument only works if:

1) Everyone obeys all traffic laws.
2) Everyone can see everyone else.
3) All roads are compatible for splitting.
4) There is no sporting event in any major city anywhere, or any other reason for congestion.

To be frank, it is a fantasy world where such a congregation of events will never come together. Sorry if that sounds harsh, but it's true.

I would say nice try, but that would be a bit of a stretch.

 

[Amaris]

Yes, because Wikipedia is such a trusted source of information.

From the California Highway Patrol guidelines page:

Lane splitting in a safe and prudent manner is not illegal in the state of California.

You forgot this part:

Risk of getting a ticket: Motorcyclists who lane split are not relieved of the responsibility to obey all existing traffic laws. With respect to possible law enforcement action, keep in mind that it will be up to the discretion of the Law Enforcement Officer to determine if riding behavior while lane splitting is or was safe and prudent.

All available here: http://www.chp.ca.gov/programs/lanesplitguide.html

I appreciate the point you're trying to make, J., but unfortunately none of those are from California. Our traffic, bad as it is, is much more orderly than that.

That's odd. The captions all said they were California. Ah well. I'll look more closely next time.

 

[Amaris]

*double post*

 

[Tiberius Jim]

You forgot this part:

Risk of getting a ticket: Motorcyclists who lane split are not relieved of the responsibility to obey all existing traffic laws. With respect to possible law enforcement action, keep in mind that it will be up to the discretion of the Law Enforcement Officer to determine if riding behavior while lane splitting is or was safe and prudent.

All available here: http://www.chp.ca.gov/programs/lanesplitguide.html

I posted the same exact link in the original post and have already noted that I realize that a rider is still partially responsible in the event of an accident.

Who is ignoring who, now?

 

[Locutus of Bored]

That's odd. The captions all said they were California. Ah well. I'll look more closely next time.

I think someone was making a little joke about how shitty California traffic is. That looked more like Calcutta to me than California. The motorized rickshaws were a dead giveaway that it wasn't California, as were the wrong signs and license plates, and the really dirty old school red bus.

 

[Gov Kodos]

A still shot makes it hard to judge how the flow of traffic would work at that intersection, anyway. Plus, the photo is taken out of context. How are we to know if this is a typical situation at this intersection? Go to the Bay Area on the same day as a 49ers game and you'll see conditions you wouldn't normally get on any other day. And trying to say that one photo of one messy intersection in Bangkok destroys all notion that lane splitting can be a good thing is asinine at best.

The video I posted in the OP really does explain things better than I can. Watching that rather than picking apart every nuance of that guy's commute would serve the discussion much better.



I don't feel that way at all. It's not about who's "business" it is to be up there. I can fit up there and it is safer for me to be at the front of the pack of cars rather than in the middle of them, so I am going to put myself in the best position I can to be safe once that light goes green. If someone is going to get pissed because they're stuck 10 cars deep and I am able to move my way up, they should look into getting their Class M endorsement.

So, it is all about you, and what you want. Everyone else is safer to not have vehicles weaving through lanes, but screw them.

Yep, you're right. It's not that I am more vulnerable on a bike and thus want to take steps to make myself less so. And more so, I am the only person in the entire state of California who takes advantage of the ability to lane split. Well, just me and that idiot from the video.

What's all that straw I smell? Oh it's your comment. Not weaving through lanes would make you safer as well. Also, the vehicles around could keep better sight of you and be less likely to hit you. But ignore that, it's easier to argue against an argument never made.

You all say I'm ignoring your points of view, and then turn around and not only ignore mine but then act like I am the only person, ever, who could possibly hold such an opinion.

More refuted your points, rather than ignored them.

 

[Tiberius Jim]

So when I refute you points, it's is that I am ignoring them. But when you refute mine, it's just refuting? Got it.

And of course lane splitting sounds bad when you describe it as "weaving through lanes" but when you describe it like that it's clear that you don't understand what it really is. I say again, the video I posted in the OP is the best example of it done right and the best explanation as to why it is safe.

 

[Amaris]

You forgot this part:

Risk of getting a ticket: Motorcyclists who lane split are not relieved of the responsibility to obey all existing traffic laws. With respect to possible law enforcement action, keep in mind that it will be up to the discretion of the Law Enforcement Officer to determine if riding behavior while lane splitting is or was safe and prudent.

All available here: http://www.chp.ca.gov/programs/lanesplitguide.html

I posted the same exact link in the original post and have already noted that I realize that a rider is still partially responsible in the event of an accident.

Who is ignoring who, now?

I'm not ignoring anything. You seem to be the one ignoring what people are telling you in favor of a narrative you've already accepted as true. Locutus posts a wiki article with cited sources, and you blow it off. I post images of congested traffic, but since it's not California, that's different and therefore irrelevant. People are trying to tell you how stupid and unsafe it is, but you're not listening, and one day, you're going to do it, someone isn't going to see you, and you're going to become Superman for all of 5 seconds before you become a permanent Clayface.

That's odd. The captions all said they were California. Ah well. I'll look more closely next time.

I think someone was making a little joke about how shitty California traffic is. That looked more like Calcutta to me than California. The motorized rickshaws were a dead giveaway that it wasn't California, as were the wrong signs and license plates, and the really dirty old school red bus.

Hey, you guys are a cultural melting pot. I just assumed hippies.

 

[Gov Kodos]

So when I refute you points, it's is that I am ignoring them. But when you refute mine, it's just refuting? Got it.

And of course lane splitting sounds bad when you describe it as "weaving through lanes" but when you describe it like that it's clear that you don't understand what it really is. I say again, the video I posted in the OP is the best example of it done right and the best explanation as to why it is safe.

Refute? No, repeating statement isn't a refutation. Folks explained in numerous posts why what that guy was doing wasn't as safe as you claim. Have multiple riders doing the same and the environment will be still less safe and more congested by the road being overcrowded and the lanes reduced in size by bearing more rows of vehicles than it was designed for. You've ignored all of that, and continue here with the same claim as at the outset.

 

[Tiberius Jim]

You forgot this part:



All available here: http://www.chp.ca.gov/programs/lanesplitguide.html

I posted the same exact link in the original post and have already noted that I realize that a rider is still partially responsible in the event of an accident.

Who is ignoring who, now?

I'm not ignoring anything. You seem to be the one ignoring what people are telling you in favor of a narrative you've already accepted as true. Locutus posts a wiki article with cited sources, and you blow it off. I post images of congested traffic, but since it's not California, that's different and therefore irrelevant. People are trying to tell you how stupid and unsafe it is, but you're not listening, and one day, you're going to do it, someone isn't going to see you, and you're going to become Superman for all of 5 seconds before you become a permanent Clayface.

I post the exact link that you tell me I forgot and then you try to make a point to which I had already conceded? Nope, not ignoring me at all. And how is the general consensus that lane splitting = the Devil any different than me sticking to my guns that it is okay? Nobody seems to want to answer my question which is: what is wrong with someone sticking to their opinion? Because that is all that's going on here is differences in opinion. They can lead to good discussion until someone accuses the other side of ignoring and having constructed a narrative. I guess you'd all be happy if everyone changed their minds every time you graced them with your differing opinion and started thinking just like you?

Also, thanks so much for the prediction of my demise. Because nobody has ever ridden a motorcycle and lane split for decades and are still alive today. Not a single one. Not possible. Instant death sentence.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

Wasn't the primary rationale for legalizing lane-splitting that bikes with air-cooled engines have trouble idling in traffic because it can cause them to overheat? So, it's not really an accident avoidance issue or a relieving traffic congestion issue as you suggest, and the solution is as simple as getting a bike with a water-cooled engine instead.

 

[Tiberius Jim]

That's one of the reasons, but the law does not specifically state which types of bikes can split. Besides, if that were all it takes, Arizona, Texas and a lot of southern states should also be putting the same laws into effect.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Yes, because Wikipedia is such a trusted source of information.

From the California Highway Patrol guidelines page:

Lane splitting in a safe and prudent manner is not illegal in the state of California.

Well, this particular wiki cites the California Highway Patrol and the California Department of Motor Vehicles, so, you know....

 

[Tiberius Jim]

What's your point? The CHP site says it is not illegal. It doesn't get any clearer or any better of a source.

Besides, the wiki also includes this:

California has no laws explicitly prohibiting lane splitting, and is the only U.S. state in which it is officially stated that lane splitting, when done safely, is legal.

So...I don't see your point.

 

[Amaris]

I post the exact link that you tell me I forgot and then you try to make a point to which I had already conceded? Nope, not ignoring me at all. And how is the general consensus that lane splitting = the Devil any different than me sticking to my guns that it is okay? Nobody seems to want to answer my question which is: what is wrong with someone sticking to their opinion? Because that is all that's going on here is differences in opinion. They can lead to good discussion until someone accuses the other side of ignoring and having constructed a narrative. I guess you'd all be happy if everyone changed their minds every time you graced them with your differing opinion and started thinking just like you?

You can think any way you want, you just can't operate a motorcycle any way you want.

Also, thanks so much for the prediction of my demise. Because nobody has ever ridden a motorcycle and lane split for decades and are still alive today. Not a single one. Not possible. Instant death sentence.

I didn't predict your demise, but the chances of your behavior leading to death are significantly higher every time you decide to lane split. The odds are against you.

California OTS Motorcycle Lane Split Survey 2012.

In the survey, 11.7% of motorcyclists were hit by a vehicle while lane splitting, 3.2% hit a vehicle while lane splitting. 45% of them were in near accidents while lane splitting. Of the ones mentioned above, 34.6% hit a car mirror, 11.1% had minor injuries, 9.9% had serious injuries, 2.5% hit more than one car, and 1.2% were ran over. As a new rider, how fast are your reflexes, Flux?

 

[CorporalCaptain]

What's your point? The CHP site says it is not illegal. It doesn't get any clearer or any better of a source.

Where did I or anything I've posted contradict the assertion that lane-splitting isn't illegal in California?