Lane-splitting

[Tiberius Jim]

U-turns are legal unless otherwise noted with signage at intersections. It's hard to tell where he was when he made the turn. I'm more specifically talking about his actual lane splitting, not trying to say every single thing the guy does is legit. And since we can't tell what speed he's going it would be hard to say if he were speeding.

 

[Gov Kodos]

By turning two lanes of traffic into three makes him an idiot. By giving drivers around more things to worry about makes him an idiot. Legal doesn't make it a bright thing to do, either. Ignore what Locutus and everyone else has said, as you pretty much always do, but that guy was an idiot.

 

[Amaris]

Sorry, Flux, that guy was a moron, and by all rights should have had his ass handed to him half a dozen times. At several points he endangered not only himself, but the people in their vehicles. What's worse, is he acted like an asshole if people didn't move out of the way for him immediately, as if they could see him appearing down a split lane out of nowhere. He wasn't responsible, or safe. That he made it through merely shows that this time chance was with him.

 

[Tiberius Jim]

This is actually a really good example of safe and prudent lane splitting on a surface street. Well, up until the end, but for the majority he does things very similarly to how I would.

THAT was what you consider safe and prudent and similar to what you do? Holy shit. I was cringing throughout that whole video and expecting that douche to smack into someone's car, or worse, that old lady who crossed the middle of the road. Those lanes were way too narrow for him to be lane-splitting safely. I thought we were talking about doing it on the freeway where you have a little more wiggle room.

He almost hit cars that were pulling into the next lane a few times, and even more often came really close to clipping mirrors and side-wiping cars that were leaning to the far left or right of the lane. He was dangerously weaving in and out of traffic instead of sticking to one gap and getting mad that drivers made a turn without noticing him, but why would they when they're concentrating on the cars and the lanes and not someone sprinting out of a gap between them?

I'm sorry, but that looked incredibly reckless to me.

That old lady was jaywalking...which is illegal pretty much everywhere. And I don't see how being on the freeway gives you more wiggle room. The only plus with the freeway is there are no side streets to worry about, but merging lanes are even worse.

He gets closer to a few cars than I would but he's clearly on a smaller, more narrow bike than mine. He is noticeable careful around intersections and at one point decides not to split when he doesn't have room. From a rider's perspective this is a good example.

By turning two lanes of traffic into three makes him an idiot. By giving drivers around more things to worry about makes him an idiot. Legal doesn't make it a bright thing to do, either. Ignore what Locutus and everyone else has said, as you pretty much always do, but that guy was an idiot.

Having a differing opinion does not equal ignoring people. Do you expect everyone with an opinion on a subject from you to just cave and change their mind simply because yours differs from yours? That would sure make for some stimulating debate and discussion, everyone agreeing all the time.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

The fact that the guy is overtaking cars all the damn time doesn't inspire me to give him the benefit of the doubt about whether he is ever speeding. I'm sure that some of the other drivers don't feel that they have all day to get where they're going either.

His remark about there being no cars at the intersection with the stop sign that he reaches at the end suggests to me that he's trying to make a point about how useless traffic regulations are. It's cute how he cuts it off before we can see whether he came to a complete stop.

 

[Tiberius Jim]

The fact that the guy is overtaking cars all the damn time doesn't inspire me to give him the benefit of the doubt about whether he is ever speeding. I'm sure that some of the other drivers don't feel that they have all day to get where they're going either.

His remark about there being no cars at the intersection with the stop sign that he reaches at the end suggests to me that he's trying to make a point about how useless traffic regulations are. It's cute how he cuts it off before we can see whether he came to a complete stop.

He's overtaking people because they're in congested traffic and traveling slowly.

If people don't want to be stuck in traffic, maybe they should buy a bike.

 

[Trekker4747]

For the most part he's riding completely legally, up until he mounts the sidewalk at the end, at least.

Yeah, like when he squeezes through a car and a bus! And then splits on the right between the #2 lane and the parking lane! Speeds through traffic like a boss!

W00T! Motorcycles!

 

[Amaris]

The fact that the guy is overtaking cars all the damn time doesn't inspire me to give him the benefit of the doubt about whether he is ever speeding. I'm sure that some of the other drivers don't feel that they have all day to get where they're going either.

His remark about there being no cars at the intersection with the stop sign that he reaches at the end suggests to me that he's trying to make a point about how useless traffic regulations are. It's cute how he cuts it off before we can see whether he came to a complete stop.

He's overtaking people because they're in congested traffic and traveling slowly.

If people don't want to be stuck in traffic, maybe they should buy a bike.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

The fact that the guy is overtaking cars all the damn time doesn't inspire me to give him the benefit of the doubt about whether he is ever speeding. I'm sure that some of the other drivers don't feel that they have all day to get where they're going either.

His remark about there being no cars at the intersection with the stop sign that he reaches at the end suggests to me that he's trying to make a point about how useless traffic regulations are. It's cute how he cuts it off before we can see whether he came to a complete stop.

He's overtaking people because they're in congested traffic and traveling slowly.

Not always, no.

 

[Tiberius Jim]

For the most part he's riding completely legally, up until he mounts the sidewalk at the end, at least.

Yeah, like when he squeezes through a car and a bus! And then splits on the right between the #2 lane and the parking lane! Speeds through traffic like a boss!

W00T! Motorcycles!

W00t motorcycles, indeed. Some of the most exciting as well as relaxing moments I've experienced in life come on the back of one. Sure, shitty things happen too but that's all a part of life.

The fact that the guy is overtaking cars all the damn time doesn't inspire me to give him the benefit of the doubt about whether he is ever speeding. I'm sure that some of the other drivers don't feel that they have all day to get where they're going either.

His remark about there being no cars at the intersection with the stop sign that he reaches at the end suggests to me that he's trying to make a point about how useless traffic regulations are. It's cute how he cuts it off before we can see whether he came to a complete stop.

He's overtaking people because they're in congested traffic and traveling slowly.

If people don't want to be stuck in traffic, maybe they should buy a bike.

We've already established that traffic in Asian countries is for the most part not ideal. I brought those areas up only to point out that there are other areas that allow more freedom to those on two wheels.

 

[Gov Kodos]

So, you're ignoring the obvious and added congestion from having large numbers of bikes weaving between vehicles in that picture, much as you've ignored everything else that works against your point.

 

[Tiberius Jim]

Not at all. Replace each and every one of those bikes with a car and imagine how much worse that congestion would be.

Yes, because a photo from Thailand totally destroys my point that it's okay to split lanes in California. They cram people onto subways in Japan, too but that has nothing to do with how the same system is run here, so it's not exactly relevant.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

That old lady was jaywalking...which is illegal pretty much everywhere.

So? People do illegal and reckless things sometimes, that doesn't mean you almost plow into them by being reckless yourself to save a few minutes time getting home. Wrong though it was, she thought it was safe to cross because traffic wasn't moving, and then all of a sudden a bike comes speeding through the gap.

And I don't see how being on the freeway gives you more wiggle room.

You avoid the curb when you're driving down a street, leaning more toward the center of the road. Also, you want to give yourself a buffer zone from pedestrians, bicycles, and cars pulling out from parking lots. Freeways don't have that issue. You have more free lane space.

He is noticeable careful around intersections and at one point decides not to split when he doesn't have room. From a rider's perspective this is a good example.

If by careful you mean he slowed down and stopped at the intersection, well, what does he want, a cookie?

The one point he chose not to split was when a school bus pulled over, and you can tell he REALLY REALLY wanted to, because he kept trying to force his way through but couldn't make it. At least until he swerved around and then cut in front of the SUV.

 

[Tiberius Jim]

Actually there are several times he chose not to split, either when he had no room or there was a chance someone might be coming into the other lane. Like I said, from a fellow rider's perspective everything looked good. From someone who would take the "Who does he think he is getting in front of ME?!" attitude, yeah I can see how it would seem annoying.

 

[Amaris]

Not at all. Replace each and every one of those bikes with a car and imagine how much worse that congestion would be.

Yes, because a photo from Thailand totally destroys my point that it's okay to split lanes in California. They cram people onto subways in Japan, too but that has nothing to do with how the same system is run here, so it's not exactly relevant.

You said that if people wanted to avoid congestion, they should buy a motorcycle. My picture was to point out that your statement doesn't hold much weight when compared to actual traffic congestion. I might also add, that the Thailand picture above is a tame and downright organized picture compared to many of the others I saw while browsing.

Actually there are several times he chose not to split, either when he had no room or there was a chance someone might be coming into the other lane. Like I said, from a fellow rider's perspective everything looked good. From someone who would take the "Who does he think he is getting in front of ME?!" attitude, yeah I can see how it would seem annoying.

I saw that attitude coming from him many times in that video.

 

[Gov Kodos]

Not at all. Replace each and every one of those bikes with a car and imagine how much worse that congestion would be.

So, ignore the effects of turning those five lanes into nine. SOP for you.

Yes, because a photo from Thailand totally destroys my point that it's okay to split lanes in California. They cram people onto subways in Japan, too but that has nothing to do with how the same system is run here, so it's not exactly relevant.

It is legal in California, that doesn't make it OK, sensible, or even a good idea, much less a good law. The subway isn't relevant because it isn't a vehicle moving in traffic. The Thai picture is quite relevant, the increased number of people between the lanes creates greater congestion.

 

[Gov Kodos]

From someone who would take the "Who does he think he is getting in front of ME?!" attitude, yeah I can see how it would seem annoying.

So respect the vehicles in front and stop weaving through traffic. You clearly feel those cars have no business in front and should make way for you.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

Actually there are several times he chose not to split, either when he had no room or there was a chance someone might be coming into the other lane. Like I said, from a fellow rider's perspective everything looked good. From someone who would take the "Who does he think he is getting in front of ME?!" attitude, yeah I can see how it would seem annoying.

Oh, goody, we've passed the denial plateau and now reached the passive-aggressive strawman stage of your latest clusterflux of a thread.

We're not talking about people who get pissed at riders for being able to move forward while they're stuck, and I sure as hell didn't say anything about it. I'm concerned about the safety of it, period.

 

[Tiberius Jim]

A still shot makes it hard to judge how the flow of traffic would work at that intersection, anyway. Plus, the photo is taken out of context. How are we to know if this is a typical situation at this intersection? Go to the Bay Area on the same day as a 49ers game and you'll see conditions you wouldn't normally get on any other day. And trying to say that one photo of one messy intersection in Bangkok destroys all notion that lane splitting can be a good thing is asinine at best.

The video I posted in the OP really does explain things better than I can. Watching that rather than picking apart every nuance of that guy's commute would serve the discussion much better.

From someone who would take the "Who does he think he is getting in front of ME?!" attitude, yeah I can see how it would seem annoying.

So respect the vehicles in front and stop weaving through traffic. You clearly feel those cars have no business in front and should make way for you.

I don't feel that way at all. It's not about who's "business" it is to be up there. I can fit up there and it is safer for me to be at the front of the pack of cars rather than in the middle of them, so I am going to put myself in the best position I can to be safe once that light goes green. If someone is going to get pissed because they're stuck 10 cars deep and I am able to move my way up, they should look into getting their Class M endorsement.

 

[Amaris]

Just to make my previous point more relevant to your situation, Flux, this is a picture of a California highway:

Freedom!

Here's a regular California street:

Safe!

Ah, look at that congestion free highway:

Clear!

In short, Flux, your argument only works if:

1) Everyone obeys all traffic laws.
2) Everyone can see everyone else.
3) All roads are compatible for splitting.
4) There is no sporting event in any major city anywhere, or any other reason for congestion.

To be frank, it is a fantasy world where such a congregation of events will never come together. Sorry if that sounds harsh, but it's true.