Putting it that way, it doesn't at all
Though I always took it as a "I dont want him idolising Starfleet. Because I dont believe in it." type thing, which is a bit deeper an issue and a bit more understandable from both sides.
Kirk's child
- Thread starter Laura Cynthia Chambers
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Though I always took it as a "I dont want him idolising Starfleet. Because I dont believe in it." type thing, which is a bit deeper an issue and a bit more understandable from both sides.
I am surprised David the child was not affected by his parents selfish decision or maybe he was. Unless Kirk's family were all dead, Marcus denied David knowledge and the chance to get to know his paternal relatives. I had a similar experience as a child, its a selfish and immoral decision to do to a child where there is no abuse involved.Putting it that way, it doesn't at all
Though I always took it as a "I dont want him idolising Starfleet. Because I dont believe in it." type thing, which is a bit deeper an issue and a bit more understandable from both sides.
For various personal reasons (short version - mixed family, lot of split tension etc), I agree with you. Though in a fictional narrative with more maturity, it makes sense to a degree.
It's not a path I would have taken; but if Carol wanted to keep David out of Starfleet, and Jim saw merit to her argument there could be just cause (which retroactively, ID provided!)
Assuming Admiral Marcus existed in the Prime universe I take it by the same twisted logic Carol Marcus never let David meet his grandfather either, since he was in Starfleet.
Well, if Marcus Sr was the catalyst for hating Starfleet (putting pieces of both films together) then probably not. But that I have empathy for as it felt like I only ever met my grandfather to find out how unpleasant he was!
I don't see any reason to assume that Marcus Prime had to be anything like his Kelvinverse counterpart. There could be any number of reasons why nuMarcus became what he was, none of which need apply to the Prime version. Even though Marcus was already an adult when the divergence occurred, the new timeline could have shaped nuMarcus' life in entirely different ways...
And even so, nuCarol spoke positively about how her father raised her. So clearly nuMarcus was not an entirely evil person.
As for the "hating Starfleet" angle: This doesn't apply to either version. Carol Prime clearly did not hate Starfleet, as she said "Starfleet has kept the peace for a hundred years". If anything, David was the one who was militantly anti-Starfleet ("Scientists have ALWAYS been pawns of the military").
(Remember, Carol didn't keep David from Jim because of hating Starfleet - she did it because she wanted to keep David with HER at all times. Carol knew that she and Jim were never going to be together as a family - so if David had to be with one parent, she'd just as soon have it be her. She was just being protective, as any decent parent would.)
And of course nuCarol actually joined Starfleet, so obviously she couldn't have hated it that much either.
And even so, nuCarol spoke positively about how her father raised her. So clearly nuMarcus was not an entirely evil person.
As for the "hating Starfleet" angle: This doesn't apply to either version. Carol Prime clearly did not hate Starfleet, as she said "Starfleet has kept the peace for a hundred years". If anything, David was the one who was militantly anti-Starfleet ("Scientists have ALWAYS been pawns of the military").
(Remember, Carol didn't keep David from Jim because of hating Starfleet - she did it because she wanted to keep David with HER at all times. Carol knew that she and Jim were never going to be together as a family - so if David had to be with one parent, she'd just as soon have it be her. She was just being protective, as any decent parent would.)
And of course nuCarol actually joined Starfleet, so obviously she couldn't have hated it that much either.
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'I did what you wanted I stayed away' or words to that effect, David never knew his father or had any correspondence with him. Carol was not being protective, she was being selfish. One can live with one parent and still have some contact with the other.
I'm reading the "Autobiography of James Kirk," I found it rather sad that Kirk wanted to be in the boy's life and Carol didn't want the boy to even know who his father was, let alone one who wanted to be part of the boy's life. I think David should have had that choice when he got old enough to understand
The United Earth state should make such arrangements illegal. In light of galactic exploration give grandparents access rights so that if a parent is off world or working for Starfleet that the grandparents (or some other designated relative) get visitation rights on the absent parent's behalf or something. Then parents like Marcus would be heavily fined or locked up for child cruelty for breaking the arrangement.
Exactly. In the movie, Carol is the one who defends Starfleet, when David starts getting suspicious of its motives. "I refuse to accept that interpretation" (or words to that effect). So whatever Carol's issues were with Kirk, they weren't because she was anti-Starfleet.
He just conflated his dad's absence with the organization as a whole, and rather unfairly, but understandably nonetheless. Sort of like the little drummer boy after his parents were killed: "I hate people.All people."
If Kirk did have a child with an alien, Spock would be able to advise him because of his personal experience belonging to two different worlds.
So you really expect adults to live on a tin can in space and live a celibate life for 5 years? LOLNooo no children. I just want to watch adventures. I don't want romance/ boring children stuff.
Nooo no children. I just want to watch adventures. I don't want romance/ boring children stuff.
This is where I once again point out that the very first Trek episode ever filmed focused on the relationship between Pike and Vina, that the very first episode that ever aired involved McCoy running into a lost love (or so he believed), and that the very first Trek movie ended with Decker and Ilia having some sort of cosmic orgasm.
Romance and relationships have been part of Star Trek since Day One.
It would ramp up the drama if Uhura learned she was pregnant with Spock's baby at the same time Kirk is learning he has a kid he never knew about. Each one with new stakes in the game and having to fight past their feelings about it to do their duty.
Carol didn't want David to be part of Kirk's world too. She only wanted him to be part of hers. And yes, it's selfish because, no matter what, David still had a father and every right to know him regardless whether she wanted anything to do with Kirk or not. It's irrelevant. A parent doesn't own their kid.
This is what happens when you want to 1) shoehorn the idea Kirk has a son we never heard about before and you need to explain why we didn't 2) you don't want your main guy to come across as a bad person because it's not cool (gary-stu characters were a thing back in the day. Not that Hollywood got much better but I feel like nowadays writers wouldn't care that much about Kirk coming across as being wrong and a bad person, or bad about one aspect of his life anyway) so you paint the woman as the bad guy instead (but ultimately make the audience only feel bad for David who was the victim of the sillyness and selfishness of his parents)
as for the unplanned pregnancy thing, I too think it would be less likely in the future and in starfleet especially. This is one of those suspension of disbelief things we'd need to accept at face value, I think.
(from some comments I read in other sites, especially those commenting a certain page from the aos comics - or the faux outrage everytime we see a kiss in the trailers, I get the impression some fans believe that everything spock and uhura do in their spare time is holding hands and play chess)
This is what happens when you want to 1) shoehorn the idea Kirk has a son we never heard about before and you need to explain why we didn't 2) you don't want your main guy to come across as a bad person because it's not cool (gary-stu characters were a thing back in the day. Not that Hollywood got much better but I feel like nowadays writers wouldn't care that much about Kirk coming across as being wrong and a bad person, or bad about one aspect of his life anyway) so you paint the woman as the bad guy instead (but ultimately make the audience only feel bad for David who was the victim of the sillyness and selfishness of his parents)
as for the unplanned pregnancy thing, I too think it would be less likely in the future and in starfleet especially. This is one of those suspension of disbelief things we'd need to accept at face value, I think.
you know, the enterprise actually is a monastery and they are all monks. That's just realistic.
(from some comments I read in other sites, especially those commenting a certain page from the aos comics - or the faux outrage everytime we see a kiss in the trailers, I get the impression some fans believe that everything spock and uhura do in their spare time is holding hands and play chess)
They also meld. Uhura shares a painful incident from her past with him (her uncle's death).
Speaking of the comics, every time you see a male character sans shirt, he looks like he lives in the gym all day. Even TOS Kirk as depicted in the "Connections" crossover.
Speaking of the comics, every time you see a male character sans shirt, he looks like he lives in the gym all day. Even TOS Kirk as depicted in the "Connections" crossover.
I thought they were translating the Kir'Shira into Swahili???? Right?
And on the flip side, you have the folks who think that a few, relatively chaste kisses in the new movies somehow constitute Spock and Uhura making out all over the Enterprise.
Seriously, the way some people talk, you'd think that Spock and Uhura were pawing each other in every other scene!
Nooo no children. I just want to watch adventures. I don't want romance/ boring children stuff.
No more Daddy issues PLEASE with Kirk wanting his Dad or becoming a Dad.
Kirk needs was moving towards the character we remember n needs to keep on that trajectory in next film period
Romances are fine n natural but Kirk needs to fully become Kirk. The rest of the crew was moving towards their prime character too.
Let's have a great Star Trek movie
