Killing Data in nemesis fell flat.

[ConRefit79]

I can't speak for anyone else, but Data's death to me just fell flat. I can re-watch TWOK and Spock's death & funeral are very sad. I really did not feel that way when Data died. Maybe it was because I expected them to resurrect him through B4. Or maybe the other characters, especially Geordie, did not seem as sad as well as Kirk did. Who knows?
The other day I was thinking, perhaps he should have been seriously damaged and not killed. It would have been more sad to see him reduced to B4's level and lose his emotions.

 

[RyuRoots]

Frankly, I'd say it is COMPLETELY the opposite; Spock's death falls flat now because they DID resurrect him whereas Data was gone, and B4 wasn't advanced enough to replace him (did everyone else miss this plot point? Am I the only one that thinks it really frigging obvious that it couldn't happen and they just wanted to show that Data would live on in B4?)

 

[Therin of Andor]

I thought Spock's death was extremely well constructed and acted, but I'm also really glad they brought him back. Unfortunately that decision totally destroyed plans for Saavik & David to become long-running characters. Similarly, ST:TMP's ending totally destroyed plans for Decker & Ilia to become long-running characters.

Data was my favourite Star Trek character and I felt that Stuart Baird really dropped the directorial ball conveying to us the sense of loss when Data forfeited his life. Part of that loooooong toast between Data and Picard, in the DVD bonus footage, really needed to be in the film to connect to the dialogue during his wake. But I loved that something of Data remained within the B-4.

 

[YARN]

Maybe it was because I expected them to resurrect him through B4.

Yes. They were trying to do TWoK TNG-style and it didn't work.

The only reason data stayed dead is that the film had an unexpected consequence; it killed the whole TNG franchise.

 

[Captain Mike]

Maybe it was because I expected them to resurrect him through B4.

Yes. They were trying to do TWoK TNG-style and it didn't work.

The only reason data stayed dead is that the film had an unexpected consequence; it killed the whole TNG franchise.

The only similarity to Spock's death was the sacrificing himself as Spock did.
To say that ONE movie killed the franchise has been wwaayy overused as a convenient way for people who didn't like the film to bash it.
On the OP I felt that it was severely lacking in some contexts. During the wake scene for example, I was quite miffed that Riker could not remember what song Data was trying to whistle and found myself yelling at the screen- "Pop Goes The Weasel"!!!!!

 

[sonak]

Well, it's not "unfair" to say that it ended the franchise, since it was the last TNG movie, did the worst of any of the Trek films, and there was a seven-year gap before the next one. Obviously, if it had been a huge success, there would have been SOME kind of new TNG movie. Now, the abysmal box office results weren't entirely the result of the quality of the film, as it was released against LOTR: TTT, and there was "Trek fatigue" by then due to oversaturation.

As for the thread, yes, Data's death comes off much flatter in comparison to Spock's in TWOK, but to be fair, there wasn't an equivalent to the great scene with Kirk and Spock separated by the barrier, the moving funeral scene, etc.

It was played very low key, which I think didn't work. Also, if Picard had just taken one of those hand-held transporter things with him when he went over to fight Shinzon, Data's sacrifice would've been unnecessary.

And I did think they made it too blatant that they were keeping a door open for Data to "re-emerge" within B4.

 

[Zeppster]

There wasn't the final scene to connect the crew or a member of the crew with Data. Data was just blown up. Yes I know Spock was brought back after he died in ST2 but still the final scene between him and Kirk is what makes that death so much more. If they could have found a way to do that for this movie it would have made it a much better movie.

 

[trekkerguy]

I love it. Watch Nemesis bout a dozen times a year and it always gets me.

 

[ConRefit79]

All good points. I did see the scene which was cut. But IMO even that doesn't work as well as Spock's funeral.
Any opinions on my last sentence?

BTW, I got to meet Spiner, Frakes and Dorn this weekend. Together they were very funny. I was surprised that Dorn has no interest in flying on Virgin Galactic. Frakes must have been tired. Turns out he's directing NCIS LA this week. Spiner was funny. He brought up a question about my name I never considered.
I did see Shatner, but you know that will always be a rushed experience.

 

[C.E. Evans]

I think taking out the scene after the wedding where Picard and Data have one last heart-to-heart talk about humanity, undercut the emotional impact of Data's sacrifice somewhat. Long-time fans had to rely on what we knew about Data in past experiences to understand why he did what he did at that moment, IMO...

 

[BillJ]

Frankly, I'd say it is COMPLETELY the opposite; Spock's death falls flat now because they DID resurrect him whereas Data was gone, and B4 wasn't advanced enough to replace him (did everyone else miss this plot point? Am I the only one that thinks it really frigging obvious that it couldn't happen and they just wanted to show that Data would live on in B4?)

Well... they really weren't clear on what B4 was actually capable of. Was the hardware different? Or was he merely missing some software to bring him up to Data's capability?

I think they were trying to convey the latter, that's why we see B4 singing at the end of the film.

 

[BillJ]

I think taking out the scene after the wedding where Picard and Data have one last heart-to-heart talk about humanity, undercut the emotional impact of Data's sacrifice somewhat. Long-time fans had to rely on what we knew about Data in past experiences to understand why he did what he did at that moment, IMO...

I think the inclusion of B4 did more to undercut Data's sacrifice than anything else. Even casual audiences knew he was there as an "out".

 

[Itisnotlogical]

Including a Data-ish character entirely, resurrection or no, ruined about 90% of Data's death for me. It would be like if Spock died and another Vulcan that looked and sounded exactly like him replaced him.

Speaking of Spock, his death just never brought a tear to my eye. Maybe because The Search for Spock, directly adjacent from TWOK on my shelf, kind of gave away the fact he wasn't really dead...

 

[C.E. Evans]

I think taking out the scene after the wedding where Picard and Data have one last heart-to-heart talk about humanity, undercut the emotional impact of Data's sacrifice somewhat. Long-time fans had to rely on what we knew about Data in past experiences to understand why he did what he did at that moment, IMO...

I think the inclusion of B4 did more to undercut Data's sacrifice than anything else. Even casual audiences knew he was there as an "out".

Yes and no. Yes, there was another Soong-type android there that could physically replace Data, but no guarantee that he would be Data, IMO. B4 may inherit Data's memories and abilities, but not his personality. In such a case, B4 would be a totally different character that would be a constant reminder that Data was gone...

 

[zar]

The only similarity to Spock's death was the sacrificing himself as Spock did.

Data is TNG's Spock, the emotionless one trying to understand humans. In TWoK, Khan is dying and Spock saves the Enterprise while Khan is powering up his weapon of mass destruction. In Nemesis, Shinzon is dying and Data saves the Enterprise while Shinzon is powering up his weapon of mass destruction. Both take place in a nebula.

 

[Colonel Midnight]

^ Exactly. The only major difference (IMO, of course) is that Leonard Nimoy has more acting capability in one of his pointed ears than Brent Spiner could ever demonstrate, even after 7 seasons of TNG and 3 movies.

Cheers,
-CM-

 

[ConRefit79]

^ Exactly. The only major difference (IMO, of course) is that Leonard Nimoy has more acting capability in one of his pointed ears than Brent Spiner could ever demonstrate, even after 7 seasons of TNG and 3 movies.

Cheers,
-CM-

Perhaps he disabled his emotion chip so he could do what he thought he had to do.
Maybe Picard or Riker making the sacrifice would have had more of an impact on me. But at the time, I don't think they knew that was the end of the road.

 

[Captain Mike]

The only similarity to Spock's death was the sacrificing himself as Spock did.

Data is TNG's Spock, the emotionless one trying to understand humans. In TWoK, Khan is dying and Spock saves the Enterprise while Khan is powering up his weapon of mass destruction. In Nemesis, Shinzon is dying and Data saves the Enterprise while Shinzon is powering up his weapon of mass destruction. Both take place in a nebula.

By the end of TWOK, Spock has TOTALLY consalidated his heritage. Data is just beginning to understand what "family" is all about WHAT part is that the same?

 

[zar]

I don't see your point. Are you disagreeing that Data is TNG's version of Spock?

 

[CaptainStoner]

I thought the crew's reactions to Data's death was fairly strong and had a style of realism we don't always see with the TOS crew playing huge archetypes(which I also love). I'm not annoyed by Riker forgetting "Pop goes the Weasel". There is a poignancy to his forgetting it in that moment.
I do wish we could have had the next 2 TNG films. That falls flat for me.