Kes on Acid

[voyagerfan]

It was gradual and something that the caretaker or the Kazon may have stopped other Ocompans from getting their mental states.

Kes is a character I liked and if people have anxiety issues, to diss them and be nasty (basically bullying) is not very good and it was Lien's choice to leave and as I have a learning disability myself, sometimes people are ignorant of these issues that disabilities/problems are essentially "hidden" from normal view.

Give the woman some flak, I know how it can be and it just seems odd you don't often hear of her? (or i could be wrong)

 

[exodus]

It was gradual and something that the caretaker or the Kazon may have stopped other Ocompans from getting their mental states.

Kes is a character I liked and if people have anxiety issues, to diss them and be nasty (basically bullying) is not very good and it was Lien's choice to leave and as I have a learning disability myself, sometimes people are ignorant of these issues that disabilities/problems are essentially "hidden" from normal view.

Give the woman some flak, I know how it can be and it just seems odd you don't often hear of her? (or i could be wrong)

You mean "Slack".

Giving someone "flak" means to give them a hard time.

 

[voyagerfan]

OOPS I meant slack I had slack in my head tough. Odd

 

[exodus]

OOPS I meant slack I had slack in my head tough. Odd

Hey, at least I knew what you meant.

 

[Unicron]

We might have to agree to disagree, exodus. I had no problem with how her telepathy was used in "Scorpion" because it was tied directly into the story, but there's not really much to suggest that her contact with 8472 was the cause of her abilities suddenly going into hyperdrive the next episode. I do think how she dealt with Seven, as well as healing her, was pretty cool. But a lot of the other uses of her powers in "The Gift" were, IMO, silly plot contrivances.

I'd have to watch "Coldfire" again, but since Suspiria apparently wasn't above manipulating the Ocampans who followed her, I'm not overly inclined to believe all of Tanis' statements.

I think "Fury" suffers from some of the some contrivances that "The Gift" does, albeit used a lot more glaringly, and that is the reason many fans dislike the episode. There's not a good context for Kes becoming so aggressive or feeling betrayed by Janeway, as it was her decision to leave in "The Gift." The time paradox resolves it a little too easily for me, plus her powers are used somewhat inconsistently again - she's only able to knock Janeway against a wall, but earlier in the modern time she could destroy bulkheads with a merely thought? She could draw energy somehow from the warp core to facilitate her time jump, but couldn't absorb a phaser blast?

Meh. I know I'm way too nitpicky. But it can be fun sometimes, and there are areas of these episodes that could have been better.

 

[Lynx]

As a longtime fan of the character Kes, I remember when this nasty rumor started to raise its ugly head on the net. I have done some investigation in it during the years and what I know, there is no truth at all in the rumor.

The "drug rumor" actually started about another actor long before Lien was kicked out from Voyager (that rumor has never been confirmed either). When Lien was fired, the rumor "spilled over" to her.

Jennifer Lien is a very shy person and also acts a little "spacey" at conventions and such. This, plus the fact that she was fired from the show obviously lead t the rumor spilling over to her.

As for people who have been falsely accused for doing drugs, many people believed that Frank Zappa was an LSD addict. Zappa never touched drugs and were known to be very anti-drugs.

The same for the 80:s punk rock singer Nina Hagen who also acted a bit "spacey" in public. She was also accused for being a drug addict but never touched anything stronger than orange juice.

Jennifer Lien was not fired for doing drugs. Jennifer Lien was fired because the producers and writers wanted to add a Borg character or a "sexy babe" to the show. When they did come up with a character which was both Borg and "sexy", they were too greedy to add that character while still keeping all the original characters. One had to go.

The first choice was obviously Garret Wang (Harry Kim). But when a silly poll among the staff of a magazine showed him as "one of the 50 most handsome", those in charge of the show changed their minds and dumped Jennifer Lien (Kes) instead.

Jennifer Lien was very sad and depressed when she was told that she had to leave. The other cast members didn't like it either.

 

[Lynx]

We might have to agree to disagree, exodus. I had no problem with how her telepathy was used in "Scorpion" because it was tied directly into the story, but there's not really much to suggest that her contact with 8472 was the cause of her abilities suddenly going into hyperdrive the next episode. I do think how she dealt with Seven, as well as healing her, was pretty cool. But a lot of the other uses of her powers in "The Gift" were, IMO, silly plot contrivances.

I'd have to watch "Coldfire" again, but since Suspiria apparently wasn't above manipulating the Ocampans who followed her, I'm not overly inclined to believe all of Tanis' statements.

I think "Fury" suffers from some of the some contrivances that "The Gift" does, albeit used a lot more glaringly, and that is the reason many fans dislike the episode. There's not a good context for Kes becoming so aggressive or feeling betrayed by Janeway, as it was her decision to leave in "The Gift." The time paradox resolves it a little too easily for me, plus her powers are used somewhat inconsistently again - she's only able to knock Janeway against a wall, but earlier in the modern time she could destroy bulkheads with a merely thought? She could draw energy somehow from the warp core to facilitate her time jump, but couldn't absorb a phaser blast?

Meh. I know I'm way too nitpicky. But it can be fun sometimes, and there are areas of these episodes that could have been better.

I agree on your statement about "Fury" here. There was no logical reason for the pathetic creature who was supposed to be Kes to act the way she did. Kes, with her strong willpower, was probably the last person who would go crazy like that and she had no reason for blaming Janeway for her own decision to join the crew. Besides that, the real Kes would rather scrifice herself than to harm any of her crewmates.

As for "Fury", that episode should never have been made.

I must also express my gratitude for the possibility to have a cordial debate about the character Kes on this forum. That is not possible on some other forums.

 

[exodus]

We might have to agree to disagree, exodus. I had no problem with how her telepathy was used in "Scorpion" because it was tied directly into the story, but there's not really much to suggest that her contact with 8472 was the cause of her abilities suddenly going into hyperdrive the next episode. I do think how she dealt with Seven, as well as healing her, was pretty cool. But a lot of the other uses of her powers in "The Gift" were, IMO, silly plot contrivances.

I'd have to watch "Coldfire" again, but since Suspiria apparently wasn't above manipulating the Ocampans who followed her, I'm not overly inclined to believe all of Tanis' statements.

I think "Fury" suffers from some of the some contrivances that "The Gift" does, albeit used a lot more glaringly, and that is the reason many fans dislike the episode. There's not a good context for Kes becoming so aggressive or feeling betrayed by Janeway, as it was her decision to leave in "The Gift." The time paradox resolves it a little too easily for me, plus her powers are used somewhat inconsistently again - she's only able to knock Janeway against a wall, but earlier in the modern time she could destroy bulkheads with a merely thought? She could draw energy somehow from the warp core to facilitate her time jump, but couldn't absorb a phaser blast?

Meh. I know I'm way too nitpicky. But it can be fun sometimes, and there are areas of these episodes that could have been better.

I'm not the only one that's linked "Coldfire" to "Fury", several other posters on serveral other boards have made the same connection. I only ask that you re-watch the ep. without bias and see the statements for yourself. Believe me, I'm not that creative to make this stuff up.

If you still disagree, then we can agree to disagree.

 

[Lynx]

^^
Sorry, but I must correct you here exodus.

There aren't "several" posters who connect "Cold Fire" with the horrible episode "Fury", only a few who happen to strongly dislike the character (to say the least).

I must state that I see no connection at all between those episodes.

"Cold Fire" was about Kes being tempted by evil forces but also being able to withstand them in the long run, due to strong will-power and self control.

"Fury" was an out-of -character episode about a crazy maniac trying to destroy the ship and kill the crew for no reason at all.

 

[Rÿcher]

So, she drops acid once in a while. Cut he some slaaaaaack!

 

[exodus]

^^
Sorry, but I must correct you here exodus.

There aren't "several" posters who connect "Cold Fire" with the horrible episode "Fury", only a few who happen to strongly dislike the character (to say the least).

I must state that I see no connection at all between those episodes.

"Cold Fire" was about Kes being tempted by evil forces but also being able to withstand them in the long run, due to strong will-power and self control.

"Fury" was an out-of -character episode about a crazy maniac trying to destroy the ship and kill the crew for no reason at all.

I would appreciate it if you didn't try to "correct" anything and allow others to do the rescearch and then judge for themselves. If you don't agree, then please simply state you don't agree.

Posters that like or dislike of the character have little to nothing to do with their connecting "Coldfire" to "Fury". I can name few fans of Kes off the top of my head that have made the connection as well.

Thanks.

 

[Unicron]

I haven't seen "Cold Fire" in a long time, as proven by the fact that I didn't spell the title correctly. So I can give you my word that, given the opportunity, I'll rewatch it.

 

[exodus]

I haven't seen "Cold Fire" in a long time, as proven by the fact that I didn't spell the title correctly. So I can give you my word that, given the opportunity, I'll rewatch it.

That is all I ask.

Thanks for at least considering it.

Hopefully we can talk more about it after you do.

 

[2 of 10]

Trek has had it's share of actors leaving the series, wheather it was their choice of Roddenberrys and/or the writers...

TOS: Yeoman Janice Rand is let go without any reason, does anyone recall that, the sexual tension between Kirk and Rand was no secret.

TNG: Tasha Yar: Killed off by a Tar Monster. Dr Crusher is on for season one, then she leaves for a year and is replaced by Dr Polaskie. Then all of the sudden she is back for seasons 3-7.

DS-9: Jadzia Dax, who had been a main character for 6 years is killed off, I still do not know if she wanted out or the writers just needed to kill of a character. Vedek Bareil dies when it should have been Winn

Voyager: Seska is a traitor who gets hers, Hogan, gets killed by some kind of a cave snake monster, Kes, turns into a light being and throws Voyager 10,000 LY's out of Borg Space. Lt Carey is killed off right before Voyager gets back to the AQ.

Ent: Sorry to say that I never got into Enterprise, so I don't really know much about the series.

The fact is that Death is a part of life, espically when you are cruising throught deep space a various warp speeds and meeting different species, some really cool, some not so cool. So, it should come as no surprise that people die. Wheather Jennifer Lien was let go because of Drug abuse is really niether here nor there. I did like Kes, however, Seven was much cooler and brought more to Voyager then Kes did...

Resistance is Futile

 

[Lynx]

Trek has had it's share of actors leaving the series, wheather it was their choice of Roddenberrys and/or the writers...

TOS: Yeoman Janice Rand is let go without any reason, does anyone recall that, the sexual tension between Kirk and Rand was no secret.

TNG: Tasha Yar: Killed off by a Tar Monster. Dr Crusher is on for season one, then she leaves for a year and is replaced by Dr Polaskie. Then all of the sudden she is back for seasons 3-7.

DS-9: Jadzia Dax, who had been a main character for 6 years is killed off, I still do not know if she wanted out or the writers just needed to kill of a character. Vedek Bareil dies when it should have been Winn

Voyager: Seska is a traitor who gets hers, Hogan, gets killed by some kind of a cave snake monster, Kes, turns into a light being and throws Voyager 10,000 LY's out of Borg Space. Lt Carey is killed off right before Voyager gets back to the AQ.

Ent: Sorry to say that I never got into Enterprise, so I don't really know much about the series.

The fact is that Death is a part of life, espically when you are cruising throught deep space a various warp speeds and meeting different species, some really cool, some not so cool. So, it should come as no surprise that people die. Wheather Jennifer Lien was let go because of Drug abuse is really niether here nor there. I did like Kes, however, Seven was much cooler and brought more to Voyager then Kes did...

Resistance is Futile

As for characters killed off and actors leaving, there have been a lot of different situations:

TOS: There were obviously some reasons for rand's "dissapearance" which I don't want to comment about since I haven't read Grace Lee Whitney's biography about the tragic events described there. I only want to point out that Rand was never killed off, as we could see she has showed up in different Trek movies and series in later years.

TNG: Tasha Yar was killed off because actress Denise Crosby wanted to leave. Later on, she wanted back and they came up with "Yesterday's Enterprise" and also that Sela plot (which I did find incredibly silly). As I see it, they shouldn't have killed off the character, then it would have been possible to have her return, at least for some guest appearances.

Dr. Crusher was dumped after season 1 (stupid decision) but was brought back in season 3 (good decision).

DS9: Jadzia Dax was killed off after six seasons. Obviously, the actress wanted to leave but some rumor says that it was some conflict over the contract. Once again, it would have been better to let the character leave for some mission somewhere else and bring in Ezri as a new character with no connection to Jadzia.

VOY: Kes was kicked out for no acceptable reason at all (they should have kept all original characters when Seven arrived, I'm sure they could have afforded that). Bringing her back the way they did in "Fury" was only insulting to the fans of the character (a stupid mistake or a deliberate insult, I believe in the later alternative).

Seska was a villain. I don't think there were any conflicts or so involved when she was killed off, although it would have been interesting if she had been captured and remained on board.

Lt. Carey wasn't a main character. Still, I do find the killing off of the character unnecessary.

As for ENT, I did only watch four episodes in the beginning before giving up. I know that they killed off Trip at the end and I don't understand why.

 

[ALF]

So, she drops acid once in a while. Cut he some slaaaaaack!

Oh my. That's perfect.
"Kes on Acid"... I think it's the best Voyager thread I've seen... ever maybe. Just the mention of it sends my mind doing cartwheels.

I can picture Kes in the mess hall tweaking out and screaming at Neelix's vegetables.

"Calm down, Kes. What's the matter?"

"The music. Can't you taste the MUSIC???!!!"

 

[exodus]

So, she drops acid once in a while. Cut he some slaaaaaack!

Shouldn't that be: Cut her some smack.

 

[Unicron]

That is all I ask.

Thanks for at least considering it.

Hopefully we can talk more about it after you do.

No problem. I just have no idea when that will be.

 

[freak]

I had never heard any rumors about drugs until two years after the show ended(goes to show you how little I know!). All I do know was that I was really upset when I read an article in the ST Communicator magazine one day at Barnes and Noble that Kes was leaving Voyager. I really liked her character and thought she did an exceptionally good job in the ep "the Gift". That was one of my favorite episodes of Voyager. It also showed the relationship between Janeway and Kes-it was sort of mother/daughter like. Jennifer Lien might have an anxiety condition when being in big crowds..I know I did when I had to give presentations in college!!! It's no laughing matter! But just because someone is figidy and and little shaky does not necessarily mean it's because of drugs.
BTW: When I saw the title of this thread "Kes on Acid" I immediately thought OH NO...not another trolling and flaming thread about a charcter again!

 

[Boy Wonder]

As a longtime fan of the character Kes, I remember when this nasty rumor started to raise its ugly head on the net. I have done some investigation in it during the years and what I know, there is no truth at all in the rumor.

The "drug rumor" actually started about another actor long before Lien was kicked out from Voyager (that rumor has never been confirmed either). When Lien was fired, the rumor "spilled over" to her.

Jennifer Lien is a very shy person and also acts a little "spacey" at conventions and such. This, plus the fact that she was fired from the show obviously lead t the rumor spilling over to her.

As for people who have been falsely accused for doing drugs, many people believed that Frank Zappa was an LSD addict. Zappa never touched drugs and were known to be very anti-drugs.

The same for the 80:s punk rock singer Nina Hagen who also acted a bit "spacey" in public. She was also accused for being a drug addict but never touched anything stronger than orange juice.

Jennifer Lien was not fired for doing drugs. Jennifer Lien was fired because the producers and writers wanted to add a Borg character or a "sexy babe" to the show. When they did come up with a character which was both Borg and "sexy", they were too greedy to add that character while still keeping all the original characters. One had to go.

The first choice was obviously Garret Wang (Harry Kim). But when a silly poll among the staff of a magazine showed him as "one of the 50 most handsome", those in charge of the show changed their minds and dumped Jennifer Lien (Kes) instead.

Jennifer Lien was very sad and depressed when she was told that she had to leave. The other cast members didn't like it either.

That's interesting. I know it's only a rumour, but who was the other actor apparently on drugs?