Kes & Neelix question

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Voyager' started by JHoffman555, Jan 13, 2013.

  1. JHoffman555

    JHoffman555 Ensign Red Shirt

    Sep 4, 2008
    New York City
    Hi -

    I just watched Caretaker for the first time in many years.

    Here's something I didn't quite understand. It is made pretty clear that the underground Ocampa society is locked off from the surface. Yet how did Neelix meet Kes? Was it after she had already snuck to the surface? I don't think they make this clear - and if so, she was in the possession of the Kazon-Ogla, and probably not for very long. When would they have had time to start their relationship? Was this ever discussed in any tie-in fiction? If anyone knows, I'd be curious to find out.

  2. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Apr 15, 2000
    In the lap of squalor I assure you.
    Neelix traded with the Kazon.

    They had a business relationship.

    When he remeets them in the pilot, the Kazon are very angry with Neelix because he stole a lot of water off them during his last stay at their camp. It's a certainty that he met and "fell in love" with Kes during his last visit, or any of his previous visits. He might have stolen the water to buy mercenaries to rescue his "girlfriend" but he seemed to have lost what he had stolen by the time he met up with Janeway and used her resources instead. Although why he didn't steal the slave girl when he stole the water is a good question unless he had to pick one or the other and thought that stealing water was better for him long term than stealing a simple child slave girl who wouldn't even boink him... If Kes had put out on Ocampa, that means that Neelix would not have been around to great Janeway in the pilot because after he tried the milk for free why buy the cow, or he had chosen to steal the girl rather than all that water because she was a superb lover for a one year old and they both would have pissed off.

    Kes later says that she left home shortly after her father died, which was also shortly after her first birthday... She celebrated her 2nd birthday in the episode Twisted that aired at the beginning of season 2, which was supposed to air at the end of the first season before life got difficult, but in either case she was a slave girl for the better part of 1/2 a year.
  3. SonicRanger

    SonicRanger Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Feb 17, 2001
    Minneapolis, MN
    Yeah, I think Guy's right, and it wasn't clear at all... Mostly because someone who was a slave girl half their life should have been much more messed up than they made Kes.
  4. Lynx

    Lynx Vice Admiral Admiral

    Mar 27, 2001
    Lynx Empire
    Just to add a few things. The reason why Kes was captured by the Kazon was because she managed to find a way up to the surface where the Kazon found her and captured her.

    As for her stay with the Kazon, I think she was only there a few weeks, otherwise they would have forced her to tell them how to find the tunnels (even if she probably didn't know it, she was looking for the way back to the tunnel when the Kazon found her).

    As for Kes's birthday, it is celebrated somewhere between the episode "Elogium" which takes place at Stardate 48921.3 (Friday 3rd December) and the episode "The 37's which takes place at Stardate 48975 (Wednesday 22 December). My suggestion is 17th December. :)

    Assuming that Kes's birthday is in December and the episode "Caretaker" takes place at Stardate 48315.6 (Monday 26 April) we can assume that Kes's father Benaren died and Kes left the city somewhere between the middle of December 2370 and 26 April 2371.

    According to the book "Pathways" by Jeri Taylor, Kes's father died one month before she went to the surface. According to the same source, she had been prisoner at the Kazon camp for five weeks before Neelix showed up there. Two weeks later, the Kazon discovered that Neelix stole water and chased him away and two days later, the Voyager crew arrived.
  5. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Apr 15, 2000
    In the lap of squalor I assure you.
    Jeri is a wimp.

    Although if Kes had been properly trained as a fully qualified slave girl, they wouldn't have to still keep punching her in the face when she frakks up.

    Weeks is possible.

    But note this.

    No food no water on the surface.

    It's a dead world.

    In what half dead state would Kes have been in by the time she found the camp or someone from the Kazon camp found her?

    It would be just weeks before she would be healthy enough to pick up a serving tray or clean a toilet.

    Kazons have toilets?

    Kazons use toilets?

    Kazons use toilets well?