Kate Mulgrew's decision to not have a romance

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

Yes. And no one ever takes him seriously. If she'd had a fling with the EMH it would be taken seriously but noooo...

I can see how if she created him from scratch it would be a little weird, though people were fine about the EMH doing it in the books. But all she did was tweak him, he was a creation of Tom Paris which if they had gotten married would have made Tom Paris her father in law

(Though really Fair Haven isn't an original creation, it's a bunch of templates and cliches mashed into a village.)

 

[Guy Gardener]

Didn't she have a holoirish lover?

It's pronounced "whorelogram".

 

[Drago-Kazov]

Gigologram?

 

[Guy Gardener]

E.S.H.?

Emergency Somebody-else's Husband?

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

This one's name was Steely Sullivan.

 

[Dream]

I don't think Janeway would cheat with any man, even if that man was hologram.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

There was no cheating. She deleted the wife.

 

[Guy Gardener]

She always deletes the wife.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

I'm hoping there is occasional husband deletion.

 

[Guy Gardener]

It's a fricking holodeck. She could have legalized gay marriage and polygamy in the 19th century, but no, Kathy would rather be up to her elbows in the blood of the innocent.



That's my little monster.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

I don't get why they find ye olde village so fascinating in the first place.

Bucolic ≠ Fascinating.

Okay I get it they are on a ship in space but there must be more fascinating outdoor settings not to mention the people.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Their smug smugness needed a smugging smugout.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

Then again I've known many people who find ye olde village some kind of heaven they dream about. Having actually lived in the closest modern equivalent I'll pass. My dream place to live would be Coruscant.

It's also kind of irritating that the fascination with quaint Irish crap is still going strong in the 24th century. Oh look, a stone wall!

 

[Nightdiamond]

I didn't realize she deleted the wife. Dang.

This is one reason why I found Janeway interesting. She's responsible, moral, compassionate, etc, but she has this secret ballsy, side to her.

Like she'll do naughty things because' she's human too'.

Sure it's just a hologram but consider this--he was real enough to fall in love and have sex with , but yet at the same time, his marriage was unreal enough to delete??

That was some questionable stuff there.


But I noticed this may be why many Trek fans claim Janeway was a bad captain. Once, I asked why, and basically the answer was that she was dangerously inconsistent, almost to the point of being a mental job.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

Sure it's just a hologram but consider this--he was real enough to fall in love and have sex with , but yet at the same time, his marriage was unreal enough to delete??

No the marriage was real enough that not deleting the wife would make her feel like a mistress which is not what her fantasy was about. She wanted a romantic poetry reading courtship leading to (presumably) some ye olde consummation. She did not want it to be a fantasy about illicit sex.

 

[Nightdiamond]

Now that is a deep interpretation. She wanted to be lured. She wanted the romance.

But...if she deleted the wife first, then proceeded, then who's the adulteress and who's the mistress?

She's still getting romantic poetry from a (theoretically) married man.

I read about this same thing in some articles about this episode. Some called Janeway a cheater.

These are some pretty interesting insights from the woman's (Janeway and the female fans) point of view when it comes to this topic.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

When she deleted the wife she deleted her from the entire program. Sullivan has never been married and no one in the entire village has known this wife. She has never existed for them. So it's not as if she bloodlessly murdered her so she can be a post-death mistress free from an avenging wife.

She rewrote Sullivan as single.

However had it gone otherwise it would have just been an interesting glimpse into Janeway's fantasy life, not cheating as these are just play things not people. While you could possibly make a case for holosex being cheating on your real life partner (in the same way some would consider porn to be cheating) it's not real cheating for a single person to have sex with a hologram who has a hologram partner.

As it is we didn't get any of that. Janeway is a fairly traditional prosaic person and the poetry reading courtship is much more her style than playing the seducing mistress.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Kathryn made Mike smarter because it's demeaning to have a sexidiot.

It means that she likes sex less than than pondering what people are talking about who she is having sex with.

She needed noble reasons to act like a sexed up milf which weren't there in the beginning.

If she spreads her legs for a mere "bartender" it explains how little she values herself to slide down the social order and evolutionary ladder to dig her nails into the back of a man who probably can't even spell "Trinity College" gods forbid he was going there.

(Notice how kathryn wanted a student, and not someone with a degree, because although she didn't want to be seen as slumming it with a piece of rough, she also didn't want to be out shone by a caveman or even an irishman, I'm not quite sure where her racism lies here, but it's safe to cover all her bases.)

Janeway had to justify the dew building up in her fleet issue underwear by making sure that her reptile brain which was already overclocking her pants for this complete disappointment and loser. She had the technology to make him civilized and magnificent enough for her HIGH standards. Sure Kathy made Michael three centimetres taller, because that's really important in a boyfriend but she had to invent and postdate a host of excuses and justifications like education and personality for why she already wanted his starting-character superficiality to rock her world before he levelled up... And pretend that that's who he always was, and why she wanted him in the first place for the qualities she hadn't yet wedged into him.

Normal day at the office really.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

What attracted to her to the untweaked Sullivan was that he fit her genial handyman preference in men. She likes practical manly men, not alpha males but really useful beta ones. I don't think he was that rough to start out with (Fair Haven is a Disney movie) but she's definitely after a romantic build up and for that she needs discussion and mutual appreciation of the arts and/or sciences. That's what she and Kashyk used on each other.

What's really interesting is she changed him to be more "provocative", a Kashyk quality and one completely lacking in Chakotay. Janeway wants a bit of verbal sparring not sappy parables.

If Chakotay figured out what was going on in Fair Haven would he have studied her Sullivan creation and attempted to tailor himself a bit?

Did they give the actor lifts in his shoes for those 3cm? I don't remember him looking taller but I do remember him as not being as tall as Chak.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Or they could have let Kate finish off the day in flats?

Even two inch heels can take their toll on a 16 hour day.

I'm curious?

Did Kathryn have the exclusive naked rights to Michael Sullivan?