I don't think she was in love with Kashyk, but she enjoyed the seduction element and was sexually attracted to him.
Kate Mulgrew's decision to not have a romance
- Thread starter RB_Kandy
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At best he was the Child Catcher form ChittyChitty-Bangbang, at worst he's Joey Goebbels.
Kathryn shouldn't have pissed on Kashyak if he was burning alive.
Kathryn shouldn't have pissed on Kashyak if he was burning alive.
Thing is she's a great believer in people achieving a higher good and he fed her just what she would have wanted to hear. A moment of truth, a repentant heart, a desire for redemption. But I think she knew that this story was possibly a little too perfect and given that it was crafted by a man with extensive access to her logs and history she was always wary.
But she still had the hots for him.
But she still had the hots for him.
I suppose it's easier to use someone like a piece of meat if you hate them.
Respect gets in the way of a good time all too often.
Respect gets in the way of a good time all too often.
Hots or not, you could smell the evil off that guy. I don't know, I get the feeling Janeway should have seen right through that guy.
She suspected, but she wanted him anyway, huh? hmmm
Janeway likes powerful men it seems. She got lured in by the hedonist guy in Prime Factors, who was magistrate or spokesman or something. You could tell something was there.
Then listen to her voice after he rejects her---it's broken--you can actually her hurt in her voice.
She suspected, but she wanted him anyway, huh? hmmm
Janeway likes powerful men it seems. She got lured in by the hedonist guy in Prime Factors, who was magistrate or spokesman or something. You could tell something was there.
Then listen to her voice after he rejects her---it's broken--you can actually her hurt in her voice.
The difference being is that Mark, her finance was still on the table in Prime Factors.
Counter point was a year after she figured out that he had been cheating on her just because he thought that she was dead, and a revenge shag with anyone was more than over due to prove that she had it going on just as well as a player like Mark.
Counter point was a year after she figured out that he had been cheating on her just because he thought that she was dead, and a revenge shag with anyone was more than over due to prove that she had it going on just as well as a player like Mark.
The lust is compartmentalized.
Okay you should not lust after Hitler, but Kashyk was presenting a way out of him being Hitler. WHY did Padme still go for Anakin after he slaughtered the sand people.. probably because he had a very sad childhood.
Okay you should not lust after Hitler, but Kashyk was presenting a way out of him being Hitler. WHY did Padme still go for Anakin after he slaughtered the sand people.. probably because he had a very sad childhood.
My theory with "Counterpoint" is that Janeway was manipulating Kashyk the whole time, and she used some seduction to do it. Come on, who can't see that Kashyk had the hots for her as well? There was sexual tension between the both of them in that episode.
Janeway and Chakotayhad tension from early on, but I think it made sense for them to not get together on the show (as much as I would have liked them to). But like Nightdiamond said, it would have been nice to have seen them actually kiss and acknowledge that attraction, but realize that they couldn't have a relationship because of duty. To me that would have made much more sense than the dancing they did around the topic for seven years.
Janeway and Chakotayhad tension from early on, but I think it made sense for them to not get together on the show (as much as I would have liked them to). But like Nightdiamond said, it would have been nice to have seen them actually kiss and acknowledge that attraction, but realize that they couldn't have a relationship because of duty. To me that would have made much more sense than the dancing they did around the topic for seven years.
Who said anything about Anikan and Padme?
I'm just talking about grey areas. It's really not some moral failing if she had the hots for him.
Yes there was, and yes she did use seduction. But she didn't pull it out of nothingness, it was obviously based on some real sexual attraction, as was his actions. That's why the episode was so great, they both were playing a game that they both kind of wanted to fall for.
Yes it is a moral failing.
Along with that girl who ditched Kirk to shack up with Khan to play house on Ceti Alpha 5.
Did you just mean to claim that Kathryn was prematurely gray south of her navel?
Along with that girl who ditched Kirk to shack up with Khan to play house on Ceti Alpha 5.
Did you just mean to claim that Kathryn was prematurely gray south of her navel?
No I was quoting Ben Franklin.
How is it a moral failing for Janeway to have been sexually attracted to someone who presented as possibly not a dickhead?
How is it a moral failing for Janeway to have been sexually attracted to someone who presented as possibly not a dickhead?
He rounded up gene-traitors to be worked to death in a concentration camp.
Stuck children in cages, and (logically) drugged them that they wouldn't hurt themselves.
He can't make his quota if the telepaths commit suicide on his watch.
Stuck children in cages, and (logically) drugged them that they wouldn't hurt themselves.
He can't make his quota if the telepaths commit suicide on his watch.
But he's sorry.
He wishes to redeem himself!
I think Janeway genuinely held out some hope that he was authentically repentant and wanting to make amends. Let's say for a moment this was true and there was no falsehood in his story. Would having the hots for him still be a moral failure once there was longer a possibility that he was full of shit?
He wishes to redeem himself!
I think Janeway genuinely held out some hope that he was authentically repentant and wanting to make amends. Let's say for a moment this was true and there was no falsehood in his story. Would having the hots for him still be a moral failure once there was longer a possibility that he was full of shit?
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So the only reason that Lon Suder wasn't allowed a stab at redemption was that he was a little too unattractive?
He was clearly still a danger to others. He was given his stab at redemption with his meditation sessions with Tuvok which were ongoing. In Basics he was still a very edgy crazy person despite how far he had come.
Exactly. The attraction was obviously mutual, and that's what makes the episode so interesting, because that attraction adds another layer to the tension and manipulation.
Judging by the endgame of that episode, I would hardly call Kashyk "redeeming" in any sense of the word. More like a manipulative prick.
I'd agree that Janeway probably held out some hope that he was really good beneath all that Inspector leather, but she still kept her guard up.
I meant he presented himself as sorry etc.. to her. Not that it turned out that way. I'm talking about her present tense (during the ongoing episode, not the ending) attraction.
Ah, my bad. During the episode, yes, absolute tension.
Unfortunately, that all fizzled out at the end...
