None of Thor's regular roster of foes qualifies there. The Wrecker and the Absorbing Man have been known to press Thor hard - or the Grey Gargoyle.
Evidently other foes such as Ego, Galactus, the Air-Walker, Hercules, Firelord, the Silver Surfer, Stellaris, Seth, Pluto, Mephisto, the Juggernaut and many others he's faced over time for some reason don't qualify?
I'm
sure the Gray Gargoyle could turn all versions of Superman to stone, too. The Absorbing Man is obviously a match for any Man of Steel after a touch, so ... what's the problem?
Doesn't Superman have difficulties with Toyman and all those carrying around a chunk of that certain green rock?
Any superhero has members of their Rogues Gallery that are a little silly on reflection. I'm sure Superman and Thor share a tendency to pull their punches tremendously, for fear of killing a far more frail creature.
But I can't think of an enemy Superman's beaten, including Doomsday, that Thor couldn't defeat, while any number of the Thunder God's foes would be beyond the current Man of Steel ... and a few beyond even the Silver Age Superman.
JMS's version appears to be more powerful than the previous standard, but still certainly not at Odin's level.
Agreed ... but if he's still the repository of the Odinpower (and I haven't read the last few issues, so I'm not entirely certain if he is) ... then the potential is there at any instant.
Who was for much of his career in the 60s-80s defined simply as stronger than anyone else.
But that's
not the current version of Superman.
In his own universe, though, back then? Sure ... and I wouldn't deny that he was stronger than any non-cosmic being in the
Marvel Universe, either. Superman's powers were
beyond silly and well into the realm of the sublimely preposterous at that point ... and to make it worse, any survivor of Krypton possessed them, too. The natives of Mo-nel's planet are even
more powerful, if I recall. Hell, I agree that the Silver Age version of Super
girl, and even her cat, Streaky, were almost certainly stronger than Marvel's Thor—all of which allows someone to say, "that's just stupid," and move on with a clear conscience.
That said, it's also
highly questionable whether Superman would possess power along those lines in a normal Marvel Universe (
vis-à-vis the crossover universe of
JLA/Avengers and
Marvel vs. DC), where the physical, magical and cosmological laws are no doubt vastly different. Thor would likely be even more powerful in the DC universe, where even the run-of-the-mill gods have abilities that, while not rivaling Marvel's Odin, would make him take notice.
A recent quote in the JLA read 'How strong is Superman? Take everything you've heard about how strong he is over the years. He's stronger than that.'
And yet Odin's ability to destroy galaxies, also stated in a comic, is hyperbole. That's
awfully convenient for your position, isn't it?
He and Seth were destroying dead galaxies. If Superman can move planets, ridiculous though that is, Odin can destroy galaxies. We don't get to decide which absurdities we accept when discussing it, though certainly we're allowed our preferences in personal continuity—a place in which for me the Silver Age Superman doesn't even exist.
Not how I remember the issue with the Fourth Celestial Host at all.
I never denied his defeat ... but he inhabited the Destroyer, and it took the combined blasts of the Fourth Host to reduce it to slag. [Note that it reformed of its own accord upon exposure to another soul.] The Destroyer was created by Odin's minions, and empowered with a sliver of each sky-father's power, making it a sky-father level force. That's beyond even the Silver Age Superman. Of course, I'd also assume that primary adamantium would be beyond the Silver Age Superman, as well.
There are also the various other effects produced via the Odinpower over the decades, many of which Superman could not duplicate. In other words, there's nothing Silver Age Superman can do that Odin (and by extension, Thor potentially with the Odinpower) cannot, and the reverse is obviously not true.
I mean, what does Silver Age Superman do when Odin, with a thought, stops time?
"Game over, man! Game over!"
I readily concede, though, that it's really not a fair comparison: Odin was written to be
functionally omnipotent by many of his early writers, and a Thor possessing the Odinpower
has that potential—one he's only begun to realize. Even Silver Age Superman had certain limitations ... and, in addition, as with most versions, could be rendered helpless by a certain wavelength of radiation. In addition, his vulnerability to magic would leave him practically helpless against Odin in most circumstances.
It's also not the standard power level of the character.
And Silver Age hasn't been the standard power level of the Superman character for decades.
There is a class 1000 strength level also in the handbooks - so Thor is somewhere between 100 and 1000 tons, and likely closer to the former than the later.
Actually, no. Class 1000, 3000 and 5000 originated in the old Marvel Super Heroes Game System. I'm not sure it ever crossed over into a Handbook. Game playability and mechanics have little to do with what actually occurs in the comics, nor does something stated in a Handbook override what's said and done in the comics themselves, even as canon decisively trumps the
Star Trek Encyclopedia.
I presented evidence that Thor's upper limit is
at the very least a fifth to a fourth of the Earth's mass, considering the Midgard Serpent's weight. That certainly leaves him
far behind Silver Age Superman, but ... not so much Byrne's or the current version.
Cap is anything but a killer in the marvel universe.
But he will kill
if necessary. Or are we to assume he
never killed Nazis and other enemy soldiers during the war? The clear inference is that he did.
Another individual who picked it up was Simon Williams/Wonder Man - not particularly worthy by either definition.
Wonder Man picked up the hammer?! That's just absurd—
unless someone was using the technicality that Wonder Man is no longer an organic, living being, which at least has
some reason behind it.
And if it was Busiek who did that, well ... his dislike of Thor and infatuation with Wonder Man and the Scarlet Witch are pretty well known.
As far as Superman being completely unable to lift the hammer, I'd have to disagree - he caught it with his hand as Thor was wielding it against him in the same series. Thor thought that was impossible at the time.
Nice try, but ... blocking a hammer and lifting it are two very different things. Thor still had hold of Mjolnir.
And we'd seen Count Nefaria do the same thing, so ... hardly a significant point, when Thor had merely charged it with a
bit of magical lightning.
At that point, it was Thor who was using hyperbole.
And we're back to my
original point: The
current version of Superman likely defeats Thor if they stand toe-to-toe, because he's the Man of Steel, and that's only proper. But once it becomes a situation in which Thor is bringing his cosmic powers to bear, the God of Thunder wins.
Even Busiek implied as much: Superman is astonished at the level of power in Thor's hammer (which is necessarily dwarfed by that of the Odinpower, which enchanted it in the first place, recall) ... and Thor informs Aquaman that the results of second bout, now that he has Superman's measure, would be different. There's no reason to doubt that, considering that Thor did nothing interesting in their first fight, besides use a bit of cosmetic lightning and lead with his chin.
As always, it depends on the writer.
And that's something on which we're completely agreed.
