Spoilers Justice League - Grading and Discussion

[Ethros]

Watched it again tonight on Blu ray (first time since the cinema.) Out of interest what was the point of that very first scene, with the phone footage of the kids talking to Superman. Must have been a reshoot as his mouth looks pretty odd in it. I get maybe they wanted him in the the film early rather than waiting like 80 minutes for him to appear. Just when they ask him what his favourite thing on Earth is and he gives a knowing look. What is he thinking there? Banging Lois? It just cuts to black and it's a bit of an "erm, ok..." moment

 

[Tosk]

My assumption was that it was a bit of retroactive character damage control, so that "bright friendly Superman" was always around, we just didn't get to see him very often.

The scene is terrible though, what with the Clutch Cargo mouth and Superman somehow wearing his new JL suit.

 

[The Realist]

Just when they ask him what his favourite thing on Earth is and he gives a knowing look. What is he thinking there? Banging Lois? It just cuts to black and it's a bit of an "erm, ok..." moment

Nothing "erm, OK" about it. It's actually a lovely little character beat, especially in the way it leaves the answer unspoken but obvious. One of the better things about the DCEU is the intense bond between Clark and Lois (and Adams humanizes Cavill in every scene they share). Within the framework of this particular movie, that early moment sets up the idea that she's the one thing that allows him to reclaim himself after his return.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Watched it again tonight on Blu ray (first time since the cinema.) Out of interest what was the point of that very first scene, with the phone footage of the kids talking to Superman. Must have been a reshoot as his mouth looks pretty odd in it. I get maybe they wanted him in the the film early rather than waiting like 80 minutes for him to appear. Just when they ask him what his favourite thing on Earth is and he gives a knowing look. What is he thinking there? Banging Lois? It just cuts to black and it's a bit of an "erm, ok..." moment

Lois should have married Luthor between movies.

 

[Set Harth]

And, "Mother Boxes"? Really? Um... No?

Yes, really. Isn't being true to the comics allowed anymore?

 

[M'rk son of Mogh]

Yes, really. Isn't being true to the comics allowed anymore?

Agreed, what's wrong with mother boxes? If it's good enough for Kirby, it's should be good enough for everyone!

 

[dahj]

The boom tube sound effect was hella lame though.

Like, how hard is it to BOOOOOOM!

 

[JD]

And, "Mother Boxes"? Really? Um... No? (And what was with all those gratuitous swears?) Also: I thought we'd left grunge/nu-metal music cues back in the W. Bush years?

What's the problem here? Mother Boxes were created by Jack Kirby (who is considered one of the greatest comic creators ever) and have been appearing in the comics on a fairly regular basis since then. If you're doing a story involving stuff from The Fourth World stories, you pretty much have to include the Mother Boxes at some point.

This wasn't quite a Terminator Genisys or Star Trek Beyond-level fiasco, but it wasn't far off.

I can give you Geneisys, but Beyond? Seriously? Beyond was the best Trek movie since First Contact. I can see not liking it that much, but I really can't see calling it a Genisys level fiasco. I know everyone has different tastes, but this is one I just can't even begin to wrap my mind around.

 

[crookeddy]

Kirby is what's wrong with comics in many people's eyes. His outlandish creations are what turned adults off from comics for decades. Introducing those kinds of elements into comic book movies will do the same, as evidenced by people who hate marvel movies.

 

[Gaith]

Agreed, what's wrong with mother boxes? If it's good enough for Kirby, it's should be good enough for everyone!

You can have a great Kirby-esque cosmic and goofy movie, like Thor: Ragnarok. Or you can have a great somber, serious movie about a Batman concerned with his own mortality and legacy (like The Dark Knight), plus touching scenes featuring a grieving woman whose boyfriend comes back from the dead. But mixing the two is kind of like mixing hot steak fresh out of the pan with peppermint ice cream. Justice League is too ponderous and grim to be jolly good fun, and too Power Rangers-level stupid to take at all seriously. There simply is no there there.

What's the problem here? Mother Boxes were created by Jack Kirby (who is considered one of the greatest comic creators ever)

And Tolkien is one of the great fantasy writers, but Tom Bombadil still had zero place in PJ's Lord of the Rings movies. (And if you don't get the Freudian connotations of "Mother Box", well...)

If you're doing a story involving stuff from The Fourth World stories, you pretty much have to include the Mother Boxes at some point.

At least the MCU had the good sense to rename its Cosmic Cube "The Tesseract" - and there's good reason Hugh Jackman never wore that stupid yellow mask.

I can give you Geneisys, but Beyond? Seriously?

Seriously. It was soulless corporate product, featuring the fifth gravelly-voiced revenge-seeking villain in a big-ass ship in a row (yes, the swarm of little ships count as one "big-ass ship), the action editing was horrible, somebody gave Pegg a prank script with the word "lassie" included five times per sentence and nobody noticed, the movie gave me a throbbing headache, such that I never, ever intend to see it again, and it underperformed. So, yeah, fiasco.

 

[Turtletrekker]

Kirby is what's wrong with comics in many people's eyes. His outlandish creations are what turned adults off from comics for decades. Introducing those kinds of elements into comic book movies will do the same, as evidenced by people who hate marvel movies.

 

[JD]

You can have a great Kirby-esque cosmic and goofy movie, like Thor: Ragnarok. Or you can have a great somber, serious movie about a Batman concerned with his own mortality and legacy (like The Dark Knight), plus touching scenes featuring a grieving woman whose boyfriend comes back from the dead. But mixing the two is kind of like mixing hot steak fresh out of the pan with peppermint ice cream. Justice League is too ponderous and grim to be jolly good fun, and too Power Rangers-level stupid to take at all seriously. There simply is no there there.

And Tolkien is one of the great fantasy writers, but Tom Bombadil still had zero place in PJ's Lord of the Rings movies. (And if you don't get the Freudian connotations of "Mother Box", well...)

At least the MCU had the good sense to rename its Cosmic Cube "The Tesseract" - and there's good reason Hugh Jackman never wore that stupid yellow mask.

Seriously. It was soulless corporate product, featuring the fifth gravelly-voiced revenge-seeking villain in a big-ass ship in a row (yes, the swarm of little ships count as one "big-ass ship), the action editing was horrible, somebody gave Pegg a prank script with the word "lassie" included five times per sentence and nobody noticed, the movie gave me a throbbing headache, such that I never, ever intend to see it again, and it underperformed. So, yeah, fiasco.

I accidentally deleted my point by point response and I really don't feel like rewriting it, so I'm just going to say that I completely disagree with everything you said here, except the bit about Tom Bombadil.

Kirby is what's wrong with comics in many people's eyes. His outlandish creations are what turned adults off from comics for decades. Introducing those kinds of elements into comic book movies will do the same, as evidenced by people who hate marvel movies.

Really? I have never heard a single bad thing about Kirby before this post. All I usually seem to hear is how much everybody loves his stuff and how great he wa.

 

[Gaith]

I accidentally deleted my point by point response and I really don't feel like rewriting it

Actually, I hate to break it to you, but... your post left you of its own accord. It went off to a yoga retreat center to find itself.

 

[Anwar]

Kirby is what's wrong with comics in many people's eyes. His outlandish creations are what turned adults off from comics for decades. Introducing those kinds of elements into comic book movies will do the same, as evidenced by people who hate marvel movies.

People like that shouldn't be watching CBMs in the first place.

 

[thribs]

The movie or as the team in general? I like the team when it’s the seven. I’m not a fan when they start switching members. I’m more of a DC guy so I prefer them over the Marvel equivalents.

 

[Anwar]

Batman and Superman don't belong in the same live-action universe, nor does Supes belong in a universe with other superheroes, and I feel entirely vindicated on both counts here.

I don't know if I fully agree on this, but DC has always had a problem with having their characters co-exist in the same Universe. Even in the comics themselves.

 

[thribs]

That’s a trait both Marvel and DC have in common. The X-Men don’t feel like the same universe as the rest of them. Spider-Man as well for a long period.

 

[Tosk]

DC has always had a problem with having their characters co-exist in the same Universe. Even in the comics themselves.

I would personally argue that the animated shows prove otherwise.

 

[Anwar]

That’s a trait both Marvel and DC have in common. The X-Men don’t feel like the same universe as the rest of them. Spider-Man as well for a long period.

No, the X-Men got along fine with the rest of the Universe until the late 80s when the X-Writers got swelled heads and decided to start writing the stories like they were in their own world.

Spidey's worked fine with the rest of the world for the most part.

I would personally argue that the animated shows prove otherwise.

The animated shows weren't very kind to Superman, Martian Manhunter or Wonder Woman IMO.

 

[crookeddy]

Kirby is only respected by the most hardcore comic book nerds. For the most part the general public will say things like this "Oh I love Kirby! His designs were so ridiculous." Which is a backhanded compliment if I've ever seen one. History is the hardest thing for comics to overcome - the further away from their history that they can get, the more popular they become.