Justice: A Good Episode?

Discussion in 'Star Trek: The Next Generation' started by Danny99, Sep 3, 2009.

  1. HortaVorta

    HortaVorta Commodore Commodore

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    In fact, I believe it's basically the same model.

    Regarding the blog, you won't be disappointed. I'm just sorry that they stopped paying for the reviews, which are both insightful and hilarious.
     
  2. Green Shirt

    Green Shirt Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Clothing and brains seem to be mutually exclusive (at least in this ep). ;)
     
  3. The Grim Ghost

    The Grim Ghost Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I've always thought it would have been more effective if Wesley had done something a bit more serious. Like maybe have him accidentally knock over some sort of sacred statue, something like that.

    There is just no way to have any sympathy towards the Edo or their God the way things are presented. They just seem like a bunch of pricks. Their appearance just makes it even worse.
     
  4. JoeD80

    JoeD80 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Since the message of the episode seems to be about zero-tolerance policies, I'm not sure how making his crime worse would be more effective. The episode centers around how stupid this particular law is, so Wesley's crime had to be as inane as possible.
     
  5. JustKate

    JustKate Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    ^ That's what the story was about, yes - but it could have been a lot different with just a few minor tweaks. It would have been more meaningful, I think, if it had been a crime that was at least understandable to the average viewer. Instead, as Gojirob pointed out, it was yet another "Ha, ha, look at the primitive religion!" episode, which has been done by Trek before.
     
  6. The Grim Ghost

    The Grim Ghost Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    More understandable, exactly.

    But even more than that, the way it is presented to us we have no reason to sympathize with the Edo's position. From the beginning the viewer knows this is a stupid law.

    I'm saying that if Wesley had done something slightly worse, at least the arguments from both sides would have some weight.
     
  7. JustKate

    JustKate Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Exactly. I was attempting to agree with you, Destro, in case you couldn't tell! ;)

    I just don't really understand why somebody - several somebodies, presumably - thought having one of Our Heros be at risk due to a ridiculous, inexplicable law would make for more compelling drama than breaking a law that actually makes us think.

    For example, TOS's "A Taste of Armageddon." I doubt if many viewers thought to themselves, "The crew of the Enterprise should report to the disintegration chambers," but that episode did give them a real issue to think about - something better than "How will Picard get Wesley out of this mess?"
     
  8. Yeoman Randi

    Yeoman Randi Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Ok, so you should know i lost a good chunk of today reading Wil Wheaton's reviews, blogs etc. The man is a riot! And, you should know it is very weird calling him "a man" as i still think of him as, well, you know, a kid. But he has a kid in college!

    Anyway, for anyone who's never read his reviews of TNG episodes, you have GOT to read them. I laughed my butt off. Even my husband, who rarely laughs outloud did so.

    Hortavorta, thank you for posting that link. A HOOT!
     
  9. The Grim Ghost

    The Grim Ghost Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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  10. JoeD80

    JoeD80 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    It seems to me that the writer's intent is that you aren't supposed to sympathize with it.
     
  11. JustKate

    JustKate Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Well, all I'm saying is that IMO, it would be more interesting if it had been a real dilemma instead of a "Picard figures out a way to save Wesley from the stupid aliens" episode. Apparently you disagree. That's the way it goes sometimes.

    Excellent. I just wanted to make sure. I think a rare (for me) use of the thumb's-up smiley is in order here: :bolian:
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2009
  12. JoeD80

    JoeD80 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    No this isn't what I was disagreeing with. Just that there's no reason for Wesley's crime to be more significant. The whole Edo-God thing and rescue is a bit ridiculous to me.
     
  13. JustKate

    JustKate Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I understood that - at least I think I did. But you see, I think there is a reason for Wesley's crime to be more significant - for it to be at least sort of understandable. I think it would make the episode much, much, much more interesting, which is important because (IMO), this episode needs all the help it can get! :lol:
     
  14. Ancient Mariner

    Ancient Mariner Vice Admiral Admiral

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    So true. :guffaw:
     
  15. The Grim Ghost

    The Grim Ghost Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Well it wouldn't have to be that specifically. And yeah the whole thing is pretty ridiculous, though no more silly than many other TOS/TNG eps.

    I guess my argument is, if they had made some effort to show the Edo's side of things in a more compelling way, it would have made for a more interesting conflict.
     
  16. Gojirob

    Gojirob Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    That was an even bigger problem for me than its stance on religion. The Edo came across as merely the first of several modern ST aliens to in essence spend the ep going 'Na Na! You can't do anything, 'cause of the Prime Directive!' They were presented as ignorant in word and deed, most especially in the 'ignorance of the law we never told you about is no defense' part of the ep.
     
  17. The Boy Who Cried Worf

    The Boy Who Cried Worf Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    One thing I never got about this episode. Do the Edo know where those forbidden zones are when they go up? I would presume no otherwise you could just stand right outside of one and murder somebody and not get punished, but in the episode, if I recall right, the area Wesley fell into was clearly marked and everyone knew he was in trouble before the cops got there. Also was it a crime to be in a forbidden area or just do something bad in a forbidden area, because how do you know know what you actually can't do in a forbidden area. I wouldn't want to be in my bathroom and poof a forbidden area goes up around me and I get put to death for defiling the forbidden zone.
     
  18. Canuck69

    Canuck69 Commander Red Shirt

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    Haha thats too funny!

    The forbidden zones where marked with white fences. The rule was you can't pass the white fences or you would be in a forbidden zone. I'm pretty sure the Edo didn't know where they were always going to be but they knew not to cross the white fence.
     
  19. HortaVorta

    HortaVorta Commodore Commodore

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    You're welcome! I do hope he picks up writing them again in some format or other.
     
  20. Ancient Mariner

    Ancient Mariner Vice Admiral Admiral

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    From my understanding, there were two factors at work: a forbidden zone (clearly marked) and the location of the "agents" (can't remember the episode's name for them). The forbidden zone was always forbidden, but if there were no agents patrolling around the area when Wesley fell in, he wouldn't have been sentenced to death. Basically, the agents were a secret police, randomly patrolling areas -- and the general populace had no knowledge of where or when the agents would be around ... so they simply never tempted fate by doing anything illegal, as it were.

    It's not a bad concept of "justice" to consider: is fear of death enough of an actual deterrent to keep people from committing a crime, any crime, even one as simple as stumbling into a flower bed?

    Of course, the episode never really spends any time establishing the rational justification for this, opting instead to have the Edo simply say, "it's our law, it keeps the peace here, now you have to deal with it."