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debates among the crew

Atomic_Monkey

Lieutenant Commander
Premium Member
I appreciated Roddenberry's edict against interpersonal conflict among the crew, not because I find utopianism appealing or realistic, but because it forced the writers to find conflict in other places. And often that manifest in the crew disagreeing on the moral or ethical dilemmas they faced. Those debates were my favorite part of the show.

I was particularly impressed that the arguments in TNG were usually two-sided. Meaning, each side typically had intelligent, decent people making compelling, good faith arguments. Issues were portrayed as nuanced and complex, rather than black-and-white. Positions were "steel-manned" rather than "straw-manned". Picard listened as a open-minded arbitrator, conceded that both sides made strong points and struggled with the decision. If one of the crew tried to paint the issue as one-sided, Picard would caution them that morality can be a matter of perspective (e.g. Picard trying to get Riker to understand Worf's desire to end his own life after he became paralyzed).

For me, those debates made the show not only more intellectual, but also more entertaining. When the answer to a quandary isn't obvious I get sucked in. I think, "Jesus, that's a goddamn pickle! If I was Picard I'm not sure what I'd do." I become more invested in the drama. In other words, tough decisions engage the viewer in a way obvious decisions can't.

Clearly the writers of TNG had opinions on these topics (which were obviously allegorical for real world social and political issues). But rather than bludgeon the audience over the head with their opinions, they gently and gradually steered the audience to what they believed to be the correct outcome. The writers understood that they needed to make their case, rather than assume the correct solution was self-evident and the audience was already on their side. They aimed to persuade rather than preach to choir. They didn't rely on straw-men or demagoguery to make their points. Like the character of Picard, the writers avoided being dismissive or contemptuous of opposing points of view. That sophistication in writing is rare in television.

I also liked that the crew didn't take these debates personally. No matter how strongly they disagreed over the appropriate course of action, they still respected and liked each other. They were able to agree to disagree. No one in TNG was ending relationships with friends or family because they had a different opinion on a social issue.
 
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You could be sure most of the time what he'd decide, if he decided.

Yes, in many cases you could predict which way Picard would go. But that's because you could predict what the writers believed the correct answer to be. It wasn't because the scripts were written so that the answers were blatantly obvious. If anything, the scripts went out of their way to create doubt about Picard's decision.

That's what set TNG apart from other shows that tried to convey a message. Other shows would make the arguments lopsided. The good guys would adopt Position A and offer well-reasoned, persuasive arguments in its favor. Meanwhile, only clearly stupid, morally-challenged people with weak or selfish arguments would support Position B. TNG generally avoided being so blatant, which is what made it more intellectual and more entertaining than other message-driven shows.
 
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Agree, I've singled out before how characters on TNG give Picard the advice that particular character would actually give and don't just say the perfect thing all the time to move the show along. It's also why I've never gotten the "all the characters are the same" criticism you sometimes get for TNG. Or even that there was no conflict. They didn't bicker like Spock and Bones, and sometimes it was a bit unrealistic how cool everyone was in high stress situations, but there were always disagreements and different perspectives.
 
I just had a conversation with a friend who's also a TNG fan. She agreed with my appreciation of the debates among the crew. She described their appeal using a term I'd not heard before: "competency porn". I googled it and got this explanation:

"There is something deeply satisfying about watching a group of highly intelligent, emotionally mature professionals work together to solve a problem. It’s a subversion of the 'dysfunctional team' trope that dominates almost every other TV show."
 
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I just had a conversation with a friend who's also a TNG fan. She agreed with my appreciation of the debates among the crew. She described their appeal using a term I'd not heard before: "competency porn". I googled it and got this explanation:

"There is something deeply satisfying about watching a group of highly intelligent, emotionally mature professionals work together to solve a problem. It’s a subversion of the 'dysfunctional team' trope that dominates almost every other TV show."

Key example is the Engineering team talk in Hollow Pursuits where Barclay finally steps up to offer his opinion and the others not only DON'T shoot it down but go to work investigating it.

Somewhat undermined by Geordi and Barclay casually strolling as they report the fact they have a potential solution to the incredibly urgent problem to the bridge and are on their way to confirm it.
 
Geordi and Barclay casually strolling as they report the fact they have a potential solution to the incredibly urgent problem to the bridge and are on their way to confirm it.

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Yes, in many cases you could predict which way Picard would go. But that's because you could predict what the writers believed the correct answer to be. It wasn't because the scripts were written so that the answers were blatantly obvious. If anything, the scripts went out of their way to create doubt about the Picard's decision.

And that is what set TNG apart from other shows that tried to convey a message. Other shows would make the arguments one-sided. The good guys would adopt Position A and offer well-reasoned, persuasive arguments in its favor. Meanwhile, only clearly stupid, morally-challenged people would support Position B, and they relied on weak or selfish arguments to make their cases. TNG generally avoided being so blatantly, which is what made it both more intellectual and more entertaining than other message-driven shows.
You have examples of that, then.
 
You have examples of that, then.

"Ethics" is an obvious example. On one side you had a respected character, Riker, making a coherent, compelling case against individuals with impaired health choosing to end their lives. One other side you had an equally admired character, Picard, making a coherent, compelling argument for respecting other cultures and respecting an individual's right to choose.

As an audience member you knew how the story would end: Worf obviously wasn't going to kill himself. Nevertheless, Worf's position was portrayed as equally valid as Riker's. Worf's argument was steel-manned, not straw-manned.

As for stories where Picard had to make a decision, many (not all, but many) of the Prime Directive debates fit this model. One or more respected crew member would make a compassionate case for intervention. Picard would counter with well-reasoned points for non-intervention. Admittedly, when the issue was rescuing people from natural disasters Picard's case wasn't as strong. But when the proposed intervention involved overriding the laws or customs of another culture, Picard rightly pointed out the arrogance, narrow-mindedness and speciesism of imposing Federation values on alien civilizations.

In those PD episodes, the audience knew the writers would ultimately find a way for Picard to bend the rules. Nevertheless, his support for the PD was characterized as being thoughtful, principled and well-intended, rather than the consequence of a character flaw. His decision to skirt the PD was portrayed as a genuinely tough-choice.
 
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I meant examples of how supposedly inferior other TV shows were in treating ethical conflict.

The Prime Directive was a silly and limited story conceit. The only thing it was good for narratively was breaking, ala TOS and SNW.
 
It is easy to deride the Prime Directive when we - the viewers - are not privy to the overwhelming number of instances where it functions as intended; what we do witness are the most dramatic moments...when the PD's applicability is called into question.
 
It is easy to deride the Prime Directive when we - the viewers - are not privy to the overwhelming number of instances where it functions as intended; what we do witness are the most dramatic moments...when the PD's applicability is called into question.
Yeah, the series have done a poor job of supporting the Prime Directive in a lot of cases, especially when the heroes are punished for preventing whole planets from getting wiped out. That's just dumb.

The Prime Directive should be a great thing for the series as it means the crew gets to go on undercover missions and dress up. It means there are consequences for screwing up, as heroic space travellers need to be very careful about the chaos they could cause.

The Original Series had a few episodes where Spock would bring up the Prime Directive and Kirk would explain why they were ignoring it this week, but that was the rule working as intended, with the captain deciding if it applied or not. If an evil computer has hypnotised the population or the Klingons are about to annex the planet, it's time for a Star Trek story.
 
It is easy to deride the Prime Directive when we - the viewers - are not privy to the overwhelming number of instances where it functions as intended; what we do witness are the most dramatic moments...when the PD's applicability is called into question.

That's a great point. There is no philosophy or principle that, when applied, will result in the most ideal outcome 100% of the time. All polices, even the best of them, have trade-offs. As a practical matter, all we can do is subscribe to those that are the least imperfect and do more good than harm.
 
It is easy to deride the Prime Directive when we - the viewers - are not privy to the overwhelming number of instances where it functions as intended; what we do witness are the most dramatic moments...when the PD's applicability is called into question.
That line of argument with regard to Star Trek is always invalid.

Because it's a series of fictional narratives - not a documentary. There is no Federation and are no "instances" of anything that we haven't been made privy to by the writers.
 
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