Just use a "Connie"!

[The Wormhole]

I fully expect Columbia Class refits, Enterprise crew members, 22nd century technology still used on some remote outposts,

If by "Columbia class refit" you're referring to the NX with secondary hull from the novels and Ships of the Line calendars, there's no reason to expect that in the show at all. Since it's not canon, the show is under no obligation to feature it at all. I think a more realistic expectation would be to see another ship of the Franklin's design.

 

[Kemaiku]

They can do whatever they like, the Columbia refit was listed for season 5 and the Eaglemoss Collection has now created an official model of it (well, Polar Lights and Ships of the Line already did that).

They have oppertunities to show a lot of designs from the Franklin to 2009 ships, NX and redesigned TOS.

 

[WebLurker]

I fully expect Columbia Class refits, Enterprise crew members, 22nd century technology still used on some remote outposts, ships with polarised plating etc turning up into the end of season 1/start of season 2.

That could be good.

 

[fireproof78]

I agree, but on your second point; according to the flawed first contact apologetic, enterprise isn't in the prime timeline.



Nope, for the above reasons

Since I reject the premise of the First Contact apologetic (flawed, as you say) Enterprise falls in to Prime, as does the Kelvin.

They probably will, but they will be wise to ensure the setting is in keeping with the pre-existing prime timeline aesthetics, just as you would expect a show set in victorian england to respect that time-period (no post-victorian technology, fashions, etc).

Since we have not seen this exact period of Trek development, I would say that it doesn't have to keep exactly with Prime aesthetics. We don't have enough points of reference to know exactly what the history of the design was.

As for your historical example, since Star Trek doesn't have a prestablsh pictorial history that is universally accepted, the aesthetic is changeable. History at least has references.

Let me give an example where cosistency with a pre-existing aesthetic actually works;

Alien Isolation is a game where the aesthetics are very consistent with the original alien film and its sequels, I didn't see people refusing to buy the game because of this, alien fans or just casual gamers.

Not only was the story well received, but the game gained critical acclaim because they bothered to make it fit in-universe.

The main point is that the story was good. If the story is good, then the rest often falls in to place.
Secondly, Alien's aesthetic is far more "lived in" than Star Trek, especially the original series, were things were treated far more gingerly an more clean.

Now, and this is important, I'm not saying that it isn't possible. I'm just saying that there are more moving parts with art that Victorian England period piece.

ENT is in the prime timeline and the Kelvin predates the incursion that created the Kelvin timeline, so, in theory, Discovery could use both, if they makers wish.

Exactly.

 

[Captain of the USS Averof]

I fully expect Columbia Class refits, Enterprise crew members, 22nd century technology still used on some remote outposts, ships with polarised plating etc turning up into the end of season 1/start of season 2.

All this [ENT] technology is from 2151–2156. DSC is around 2255. How can it still be in use 100 years later?

 

[Kemaiku]

TOS showed ships and starbases using technology that was out of date, sometimes by decades (Devil in the Dark), and having to help drop off new technology because the Federation wasn't getting around to doing it anytime soon.

Enterprise had the NX-01 running into ships that according to the Boomers were around in the 2110's (the inside of the reactors being signed by Cochrane means the ECS ships were built prior to 2119, and they looked it).

The Kelvin being around in 2233 with a registry of 0514 (older than the Oberth class) as well as the other ships like the 0716 by 2259 mean ships in service for ~100 years.

TNG had Miranda and Excelsior class ships with registries from the early 2300's running around 60-70 years later. O'Brian is shocked at the Lakota firing beam phasers like the Galaxy Class in Paradise Lost, instead of older versions.

The Enterprise C is using technology very much like the Enterprise B from decades before, not a halfway between it and the D, and she was a ship of the line.

We have plenty of examples from all the series of technology *not* being equally advanced or new across the fleet or installations, Discovery is going to be an old rust bucket herself in this series, visiting more behind the scenes places, we'll be seeing a hwole mish mash of Starfleet era's that we haven't before.

 

[Captain of the USS Averof]

TOS showed ships and starbases using technology that was out of date, sometimes by decades (Devil in the Dark), and having to help drop off new technology because the Federation wasn't getting around to doing it anytime soon.

Enterprise had the NX-01 running into ships that according to the Boomers were around in the 2110's (the inside of the reactors being signed by Cochrane means the ECS ships were built prior to 2119, and they looked it).

The Kelvin being around in 2233 with a registry of 0514 (older than the Oberth class) as well as the other ships like the 0716 by 2259 mean ships in service for ~100 years.

TNG had Miranda and Excelsior class ships with registries from the early 2300's running around 60-70 years later. O'Brian is shocked at the Lakota firing beam phasers like the Galaxy Class in Paradise Lost, instead of older versions.

The Enterprise C is using technology very much like the Enterprise B from decades before, not a halfway between it and the D, and she was a ship of the line.

We have plenty of examples from all the series of technology *not* being equally advanced or new across the fleet or installations, Discovery is going to be an old rust bucket herself in this series, visiting more behind the scenes places, we'll be seeing a hwole mish mash of Starfleet era's that we haven't before.

I can understand it if the USS Discovery runs into an older ship or spacecraft like in many Trek episodes we've seen but not have NX-refits used regularly as [2255] contemporary Starfleet ships. It's best to avoid another case of the 226 year service D7/K't'inga cruiser.

In your initial post you mentioned the "end of season 1/start of season 2". So for instance, polarized hull plating is still used for 100 years [in 2255] but it gets replaced in 101 years [2256] ? Why? As an obscure reference to ENT that only a few will get and care?

I would prefer if we see new (as in unseen, not new out of the shipyards) ships of the (pre-)TOS era, ships that TOS would have shown us if they had the budget, time and today's production values. My 0.2$

 

[The Wormhole]

TNG had Miranda and Excelsior class ships with registries from the early 2300's running around 60-70 years later.

Thing is, that was mostly because it was cheaper and easier to use those models than it was to make new ones.

O'Brian is shocked at the Lakota firing beam phasers like the Galaxy Class in Paradise Lost, instead of older versions.

The actual line from Paradise Lost

O'BRIEN: Someone's been upgrading the Lakota's weapons. That's a lot of firepower for an Excelsior-class ship.

There's nothing about it having phasers like a Galaxy class, just that it's more powerful than a typical Excelsior class should be.

 

[Kemaiku]

Well I admit I don't memorise every second of the franchise like you two obviously have the time to, but it doesn't change the fact that Trek has established old tech sticks around, expect plenty of references to other series, just not depicted like for like.

 

[Mudd]

If anyone plans to film a Horatio Nelson movie/TV series he'd better redesign the HMS Victory if he expects new viewers.

They will if it suits their purposes. Such projects virtually never accurately portray ships equippage, uniforms etc accurately to the period, nor do they strive for detailed consistency with previous portrayals. Plausible similarity based upon pretty general understanding of audience expectations and as constrained by budget and scope are deemed sufficient.

Beyond which, Star Trek is not set in real history or anything that resembles history.

No studio has attempted to launch a franchise of any duration based upon a reasonably accurate portrayal of history, and there are simple dramatic reasons for that.

This is the way it works.

You will note that the eighty-year dominance of American popular culture by westerns was based primarily upon dramatically convenient lies, exaggerations and mythology rather than any respect whatever for the truth. What little historical reference was used was routinely changed in whatever way suited a given project. To use only the most obvious example, events involving the Earp family were used as fodder for dozens of films and television series which contradicted one another without apology and all of which were mainly fabrications.

Welcome to American Popular Entertainment 101. There will be surprise quizzes.

 

[Captain of the USS Averof]

They will if it suits their purposes. Such projects virtually never accurately portray ships equippage, uniforms etc accurately to the period, nor do they strive for detailed consistency with previous portrayals. Plausible similarity based upon pretty general understanding of audience expectations and as constrained by budget and scope are deemed sufficient.

Beyond which, Star Trek is not set in real history or anything that resembles history.

No studio has attempted to launch a franchise of any duration based upon a reasonably accurate portrayal of history, and there are simple dramatic reasons for that.

This is the way it works.

You will note that the eighty-year dominance of American popular culture by westerns was based primarily upon dramatically convenient lies, exaggerations and mythology rather than any respect whatever for the truth. What little historical reference was used was routinely changed in whatever way suited a given project. To use only the most obvious example, events involving the Earp family were used as fodder for dozens of films and television series which contradicted one another without apology and all of which were mainly fabrications.

Welcome to American Popular Entertainment 101. There will be surprise quizzes.

You wrote a 5000 word essay replying seriously to a joke I made?

 

[Kemaiku]

They will if it suits their purposes. Such projects virtually never accurately portray ships equippage, uniforms etc accurately to the period, nor do they strive for detailed consistency with previous portrayals. Plausible similarity based upon pretty general understanding of audience expectations and as constrained by budget and scope are deemed sufficient.

Like the movie Pearl Harbour using Midway class aircraft carriers in 1941, named for a battle in 1942 and built in the 1950's.

 

[BillJ]

I doubt they'll waste too much time referencing a show that wasn't embraced by a lot of fans. There's no real upside to doing it.

 

[Kemaiku]

There's no upside to another Primeline prequel and rehashing a 70's reject design, but apparently digging stuff from previous productions is a major part of it so far.

 

[Mudd]

I doubt they'll waste too much time referencing a show that wasn't embraced by a lot of fans. There's no real upside to doing it.

You know, when they put a Constitution-class ship in the show I imagine they will just make it look like the old ones, because it doesn't matter - it's like casting Helen Slater to play Supergirl's mother, a little bit of fan service and in this case a reach-around for continuity-obsessed long-time viewers. Fuller's already made clear how the producers will handle visual continuity where it's important, and it's not by aping what was established in past decades.

 

[Captain of the USS Averof]

You know, when they put a Constitution-class ship in the show I imagine they will just make it look like the old ones, because it doesn't matter - it's like casting Helen Slater to play Supergirl's mother, a little bit of fan service and in this case a reach-around for continuity-obsessed long-time viewers.

See? I knew in the end you'd come around [180°] and agree almost verbatim with me!

The Constitution-class will be a background ship if used at all. If it has a bigger role it will probably be something analogous to the USS Defiant in ENT. So it will be fan service and they owe it to the fans to use the original Constitution or as close as it gets with modern production values.

 

[TheSubCommander]

I fully expect Columbia Class refits, Enterprise crew members, 22nd century technology still used on some remote outposts, ships with polarised plating etc turning up into the end of season 1/start of season 2.

If they don't have NX standard configuration, NX refits, Franklin class, Saladin Class, Larson Class, or Loknar class ships, or at least some ships that resembles/pays homage to them as guest ships or background ships, that will be disappointing.

 

[Mudd]

NX, probably; not necessarily NX refitted. Honestly, there are only many ways you can stick two cylinders to a saucer so over time there will be enough ships that look enough like fanon constructions to cause endless arguments and gnashing of teeth.

I mean, there are folks who think globular-hulled Daedalus ships are canon.

 

[Kemaiku]

I think we'd all like to forget the Daedalus.

 

[BillJ]

I like the ship with the sphere hull, regardless of what its designation is.