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Just rewatched Xindi arc...

Imagine that? Berman defending Roddenberry?

:wtf: Berman was utterly faithful to Roddenberry's ideals for Star Trek to a fault. Go read some of Ira Steve Behr's or Ron Moore's comments about Berman and his interaction with DS9 if you think otherwise.

You're right, I think, that the writers weren't always successful in avoiding the "I'm morally rightous, you're not, and so I shoot you" implications, but I was grateful they tried.

Hmm...sounds like TOS when Kirk comes down to a planet, basically says "You are wrong" and goes about completely changing their society. :p
 
You're right, I think, that the writers weren't always successful in avoiding the "I'm morally rightous, you're not, and so I shoot you" implications, but I was grateful they tried.

Hmm...sounds like TOS when Kirk comes down to a planet, basically says "You are wrong" and goes about completely changing their society. :p

Well, let's just say all the shows were on occasion unsuccessful at avoiding those implications.

Archer = "I'm morally rightous, you're not, and so I shoot you, or get my dog to pee on your trees"
Kirk= "I'm morally rightous, you're not, and so I rearrange your entire society on my whim"
Picard= "I'm morally rightous, you're not, and so I shame you with a long-winded speech that leaves you hanging your head at your failure to match my ideals"
Sisko = "I'm morally rightous, you're not....hang on...well, maybe we're both a little shady...shall we just shoot each other?"
Janeway= "I'm morally rightous, you're not, and so I am disappointed in you and may become a hardass or may just perse my lips and go away"

:)
 
You're right, I think, that the writers weren't always successful in avoiding the "I'm morally rightous, you're not, and so I shoot you" implications, but I was grateful they tried.

Hmm...sounds like TOS when Kirk comes down to a planet, basically says "You are wrong" and goes about completely changing their society. :p

Well, let's just say all the shows were on occasion unsuccessful at avoiding those implications.

Archer = "I'm morally rightous, you're not, and so I shoot you, or get my dog to pee on your trees"
Kirk= "I'm morally rightous, you're not, and so I rearrange your entire society on my whim"
Picard= "I'm morally rightous, you're not, and so I shame you with a long-winded speech that leaves you hanging your head at your failure to match my ideals"
Sisko = "I'm morally rightous, you're not....hang on...well, maybe we're both a little shady...shall we just shoot each other?"
Janeway= "I'm morally rightous, you're not, and so I am disappointed in you and may become a hardass or may just perse my lips and go away"

:)

:lol:

Although I would have had this:

Janeway: I'm morally righteous and you are not...for the last time!
 
This is the only season I am really dying to get on DVD right now. Almost every single episode is top notch. It might actually be the most consistent season of any Trek show.
 
This is the only season I am really dying to get on DVD right now. Almost every single episode is top notch. It might actually be the most consistent season of any Trek show.
No, it isn't the most consistent. It was a wildly uneven season with a lot of boring filler episodes like Extinction, Chosen Realm, North Star, Hatchery, E2.

I'd say TNG's third season, fourth season or fifth season and maybe DS9's seventh season were the most consistent seasons of Trek.
 
You know, reading this thread has inspired me to rewatch season three, just to see if I've been too hard on it. My original opinion stands. There was no good reason to make the stakes of the story the destruction of Earth in the PREQUEL series.

That said, there is one episode from season 3 that, in my opinion, is not only one of ENTERPRISE's finest hours, but one of the finest hours in all of Star Trek. That episode is TWILIGHT, where, ironically, Earth is destoryed, and the survivors end up living on what is later in the origianl timeline, Khan's planet. I particularly like how T'Pol is revealed to be in love with Archer after years of caring for him.

I thought this would have been a better romance than the nonsense we got with T'Pol and that moron Trip. Plus, Archer and T'Pol getting together would have been ironic, considering both characters initial views of each other's races.

In short, season three is not complete shit after all. ther IS one good episode.
 
Let's not get into A/T'P vs. T/T'P territory here, please...

Season Four is still my favorite season (what can I say? I love fanwank :p), but I do think Season Three went a long way towards kind of salvaging ENT's reputation and legacy amongst Trek fans. While it's still derided by many as being the worst of the franchise, I think that stance would have a lot more supporters without Season Three and what it did for the show and characters.
 
There was no good reason to make the stakes of the story the destruction of Earth in the PREQUEL series.
Very rarely did Enterprise ever feel like a prequel series to me. It may as well have been Voyager. I think they should have gone out of their way to make every thing look even more basic starting with the ship itself. That ship wouldn't look out of place in a fleet fighting the Dominion.

I liked the show, but I never for one second believed that TOS would eventually spring from what we were being shown.
 
I think that the Xindi arc was the best of Enterprise.... Yes, even better than season 4. (a.k.a "Fanwank season")

The sense of breaking new ground for Star Trek (both storywise and production wise) was great to see.

The main drawbacks were IMO:
1. That the Xindi would be stupid enough to reveal themselves by testing a small scale weapon on Earth... Surely there were better testing grounds that would have allowed their weapon to stay secret. This would have been fixable with a decent rewrite of "The Expanse".
2. That the temporal war had to be brought into it (although I did not mind the Speher builders themselves, just the "future guy" and daniels involvements)
3. The Space Nazi thing at the end.

But otherwise most of Enterprise's finest stuff is contained in season 3.
 
I haven't rewatched Season 3 in a long time, but when I did on DVD, I was a bit surprised on how much I enjoyed it more than the original show. With that said, it just didn't feel like Star Trek to me. It felt like a show like 24, and that's fine. In terms of characters, I liked what it did to Archer, Trip and Degra. Those final episodes from Azati Prime to Zero Hour minus the final few minutes are some of the best work Enterprise has ever done.
 
There was no good reason to make the stakes of the story the destruction of Earth in the PREQUEL series.
Very rarely did Enterprise ever feel like a prequel series to me. It may as well have been Voyager. I think they should have gone out of their way to make every thing look even more basic starting with the ship itself. That ship wouldn't look out of place in a fleet fighting the Dominion.

I liked the show, but I never for one second believed that TOS would eventually spring from what we were being shown.

Yep. This was another one of my problems with the show. That and it also felt like Voyager season 8, etc.
 
There was no good reason to make the stakes of the story the destruction of Earth in the PREQUEL series.
Very rarely did Enterprise ever feel like a prequel series to me. It may as well have been Voyager. I think they should have gone out of their way to make every thing look even more basic starting with the ship itself. That ship wouldn't look out of place in a fleet fighting the Dominion.

I liked the show, but I never for one second believed that TOS would eventually spring from what we were being shown.

The problem with that is the TOS ship looks like something out of the 60's. I would hate to see the crew of the Enterprise using a ship that looks like 1950's scifi.
 
When I rewatch the Xindi arc the only episode I don't like is Hatchery. It reflects back to some of the first season horrible writing. Other than that the episodes involving Xindi are consistently good. Self serving Andorian aid is a nice touch towards the end.
 
The problem with being a TOS sequel is that there would be no way of making the ship look less advanced than something out of the 60s without shoe-stringing the aesthetics to the point it would turn off everyone.

And also, they told us too much about Trek's past for there to be any real outstanding storytelling in the first place. If they'd just gone full-on reboot like with NuTrek then they finally would have been able to tell stories with genuine bad consequences and threats to the Trekverse.
 
That episode is TWILIGHT, where, ironically, Earth is destoryed, and the survivors end up living on what is later in the origianl timeline, Khan's planet. I particularly like how T'Pol is revealed to be in love with Archer after years of caring for him.

I thought this would have been a better romance than the nonsense we got with T'Pol and that moron Trip. Plus, Archer and T'Pol getting together would have been ironic, considering both characters initial views of each other's races.

Please, RandyS, No "Archer/T'Pol is better/worse than Trip/T'Pol." Feel free to express your personal opinion, but kindly refrain from turning it into a competition. I'd rather not break out the combat gear, thank you.
 
When I rewatch the Xindi arc the only episode I don't like is Hatchery. It reflects back to some of the first season horrible writing. Other than that the episodes involving Xindi are consistently good. Self serving Andorian aid is a nice touch towards the end.
For me, the skipped episode is Extinction. Or at least fast forwarded through. But Hatchery to me is really underrated. It's really the point where the crew begins to buy into the "We're not just out here to kill these people; there may be a better way." I think Trip really gets it when Archer explains to him why they have to save those Xindi children. It sets the stage for episodes like The Forgotten and The Council. I like how even in hindsight, it's hard to tell whether Archer took that stance because he was under alien influence, or because that's what he would have done anyway.

The Xindi arc is like a bag of potato chips for me; I can't watch just one. If I put in a DVD to watch while I do something mindless (like folding laundry), I end up watch at least the whole disc. (I also love S4 with its nods to Trek continuity. I think it's cool that ENT was able to hit two very different themes between S3 and S4).
 
The Xindi arc is like a bag of potato chips for me; I can't watch just one.
I think this is part of the reason Season 3 is my favorite overall season. It hooked me and sucked me in for the long haul. I was really compelled by the character development, the way the crew was tested over and over and revealed more of themselves in crisis. Even the standalones were satisfying for me to watch, because there was always the Xindi threat and the mission as underlying currents, pushing the arc forward, giving it momentum, building toward the crescendo of the last half-dozen episodes.
 
That episode is TWILIGHT, where, ironically, Earth is destoryed, and the survivors end up living on what is later in the origianl timeline, Khan's planet. I particularly like how T'Pol is revealed to be in love with Archer after years of caring for him.

I thought this would have been a better romance than the nonsense we got with T'Pol and that moron Trip. Plus, Archer and T'Pol getting together would have been ironic, considering both characters initial views of each other's races.

Please, RandyS, No "Archer/T'Pol is better/worse than Trip/T'Pol." Feel free to express your personal opinion, but kindly refrain from turning it into a competition. I'd rather not break out the combat gear, thank you.

What? I thought I WAS expressing my personal opinion. I wasn't turning it into anything.

Strange thing to recieve a warning for.
 
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