Jonathan Goldstein and John Francis Daley developing Star Trek reboot for Paramount

[Tuskin38]

There has been a prevailing fan theory that the *original* timeline was with Zefram Cochrane making his flight, with no help from people from the future, and no Borg trying to shoot his ship down. Those events led to TOS, which led to TNG, DS9 & VOY. But the changed timeline with the events of FC led to ENT, which led to DSC, which led to SNW, which led to different versions of TOS, TNG, DS9 and VOY, which led to LDS, PRO and PIC, and now SFA.

That's a theory that I can get behind.

the parts of DS9 and VOY that aired after First Contact would have to be different timelines, as Seven of Nine was aware of the events of that movie, and even called it a paradox at one point.

The signal sent at the end of ENT Regeneration is also why the Borg are in the Alpha quadrant by the time of TNG.

There's other Ent episodes intended to be prequels to other episodes as well.

But writers intent is that ENT is a prequel to all the other shows (the ones that existed at the time at least), anything that happens in ENT already happened from the perspective of the later shows.

There is no alternate First Contact theory, it was a paradox.

 

[Dukhat]

the parts of DS9 and VOY that aired after First Contact would have to be different timelines, as Seven of Nine was aware of the events of that movie, and even called it a paradox at one point.

The signal sent at the end of ENT Regeneration is also why the Borg are in the Alpha quadrant by the time of TNG.

There's other Ent episodes intended to be prequels to other episodes as well.

But writers intent is that ENT is a prequel to all the other shows (the ones that existed at the time at least), anything that happens in ENT already happened from the perspective of the later shows.

There is no alternate First Contact theory, it was a paradox.

Since this is all fiction, and as so many people here like to point out, that Star Trek contradicts itself all the time, the alternate FC theory is no more or less valid than writer intent.

 

[Noname On A Naughty List]

Ever since Spock said there had never been a mutiny on a starship, when he himself stole the Enterprise a season prior. Or that Garth of Izar's crew mutinied against him.

And there's the entire crew mutiny in TOS S1 This Side Of Paradise.

 

[UssGlenn]

There has been a prevailing fan theory that the *original* timeline was with Zefram Cochrane making his flight, with no help from people from the future, and no Borg trying to shoot his ship down. Those events led to TOS, which led to TNG, DS9 & VOY. But the changed timeline with the events of FC led to ENT, which led to DSC, which led to SNW, which led to different versions of TOS, TNG, DS9 and VOY, which led to LDS, PRO and PIC, and now SFA.

That theory works smoothest if you presume the differences in the timeline settled out by the TOS movie Era. So you can have 2 versions of TOS but everything after that is the same.

 

[Tosk]

I hope Jon Goldstein and John Francis Daley are reading this thread and taking copious notes for their script.

 

[Jason X-Mas]

I hope Jon Goldstein and John Francis Daley are reading this thread and taking copious notes for their script.

Perhaps we should send them our ideas to them in the mail, just in case they aren't. I am sure they would appreciate the expert wisdom we offer them, and free of charge to boot. Or at least suggest they work with Alec Peters. Make sure their project doesn't interfere with his. I hear it is almost done and ready to go. Just needs a wee bit more money to finish things up!

 

[Dukhat]

I hope Jon Goldstein and John Francis Daley are reading this thread and taking copious notes for their script.

You mean, if there actually is a script.

 

[Santa Kang]

You mean, if there actually is a script.

It's just of a bunch of ideas loosely strung together, like PIC3.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

So...what fans do here daily?

Group tendencies do not validate their beliefs when weighed against the producers' intent and effect.

I'm not attempting to sell anything.

Sure!

I'm stating my highly subjective feelings based upon my reaction to watching TOS and then the films. That the worlds do not feel exactly the same regardless of authorial intent, which was mixed.

The expected passage of time in-universe has been pointed out several times; characters and their environment were clearly on an evolutionary path, which allows for changes, yet the changes were still built on their TOS versions, not strangers created out of thin air.

I understand it fine

Not really.

and Roddenberry's intent of "this is how it should have always looked." Funny how that intent gets ignored or downplayed for other intent.

Roddenberry's revisionist desires were never implemented in any TOS-associated production (e.g. TAS / TOS-movies)--even the one movie he was personally involved with--the opposite of post TMP films which were not in denial about or disassociated from TOS as seen in the actual content, so your comment is easily dismissed due to hanging on to something Roddenberry wanted, but never carried out in any official sense.

He regresses as a character.

Something next to no one has ever seriously argued, especially after the continued building and growth of Kirk in TWOK.

To be fair, TOS always strongly implied that Chapel’s infatuation with Spock was completely unrequited, and that there was no previous relationship between them that went sour, like what SNW is retconning. I mean, c’mon, the reason why the character of Chapel even existed past WALGMO was to show that Spock could never be tempted by a human woman. She was more of a plot device than a character.

^ This.

 

[Christmas Canon Spock]

Group tendencies do not validate their beliefs when weighed against the producers' intent and effect.

Sure they do. It's art and open to individual interpretation. Producers intent do not change personal perception.

Sure!

Agree to disagree. If you cannot engage seriously and with respect and without mockery or assumptions about my knowledge then I see no reason to continue.

Live long and prosper.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

You keep repeating this, but I'm still not really buying it.

Agreed.

There has been a prevailing fan theory that the *original* timeline was with Zefram Cochrane making his flight, with no help from people from the future, and no Borg trying to shoot his ship down. Those events led to TOS, which led to TNG, DS9 & VOY.

That's the way it appears, especially since TOS' "Metamorphosis" has a Cochrane recounting his flight, never mentioning any alien intervention in his historic flight.

 

[Starflight]

Never heard the First Contact theory before but it's interesting - the release of the film very roughly coincides with tonal changes in DS9 and Voyager, where DS9 slides into its "WW2 in space where we're in foxholes for some reason even though we've got phasers" stuff, and Voyager goes from an upbeat end-of-history mood into a very slightly edgier and more anti-heroic tone (though it obviously weathers the change pretty well and stays largely optimistic).

It is actually pretty a compelling idea - the early Sisko who was basically a good-natured space dad, and the early Janeway who is very emotionally open and compassionate, are from the original TOS timeline while the "grr, Mr Worf, biowarfare time" angry-tough-guy Sisko and "photon everyone now, kill the Malon" grizzled Janeway of later seasons are from another timeline entirely.

The best thing about the theory though is that it suggests the change caused Kathryn Janeway to choose a cooler hairstyle in the new timeline. Something about Riker replacing Lily Sloane caused Janeway centuries later to think "nah, I can't have my hair in a bun, that'd look shit". Butterfly effect.

 

[Dukhat]

That's the way it appears, especially since TOS' "Metamorphosis" has a Cochrane recounting his flight, never mentioning any alien intervention in his historic flight.

I would like to make it clear that I know that this theory is not the authorial intent and that the current producers of Trek do not see things that way. Now with that said, I also understand that this is all a fake universe subject to the whims of whoever is in charge of it at the time. I also understand that because of this, fans are free to interpret things however they like. I used to be a canonista, but since it's very clear that CBS/Paramount have lately taken a very...'loose' approach to 'canon' (i.e. they're not taking it as seriously as hardcore Trek canonista fans do), then I don't have to take it seriously either. I'm done telling other fans how they should enjoy Star Trek, and quite frankly I don't need anyone to question how I interpret things for my enjoyment.

Getting back on topic, that's why I'm intrigued about this new movie idea that they're going to have a fresh slate, without worrying about the past or if whatever they made is going to interfere with the holy canon. That is, of course, if it actually happens.

 

[Starflight]

If the owners of the IP did embrace it, it's actually pretty ingenious from a marketing perspective - you can make "post-FC timeline" shows that can be a bit edgier, grittier, and more militaristic without people saying "that's not real Star Trek", and "pre-FC timeline" shows that are unashamedly pulpy and upbeat in the way TOS/TAS/much of TNG/early DS9 and VGR typically were.

It's a brilliant way to unite the tonal disparities that the franchise has had since the late 90s and let viewers know what they can expect from any given show, without individual shows having to try to integrate a 60-year legacy of conflicting ideas and expectations under one banner.

I don't care about canon much myself so the specifics of timelines and all that don't matter to me, but just as a marketing thing and a shorthand for producers to say "here's roughly what to expect in this show", it's a great idea.

 

[Santa Kang]

Agreed.





That's the way it appears, especially since TOS' "Metamorphosis" has a Cochrane recounting his flight, never mentioning any alien intervention in his historic flight.

He knows what a Vulcan is, though.

Where does Cochrane give any details of his historic flight? Kirk says he's the inventor of the space warp and thats about it. He talks about his final flight, but I think that's it.

 

[Turtletrekker]

He knows what a Vulcan is, though.

Where does Cochrane give any details of his historic flight? Kirk says he's the inventor of the space warp and thats about it. He talks about his final flight, but I thinks that's it.

And Cochrane had absolutely no reason to bring up the events of his first flight and plenty of reasons not to. Remember the only time he ever mentioned it in public was when he was drunk off his ass.

 

[Jason X-Mas]

It's just of a bunch of ideas loosely strung together, like PIC3.

When guided by a GOD even a bunch of loosely strung together ideas can form into brilliant art that transforms and touches the human soul. Like in Picard season 3!

 

[Detached Nacelle]

When guided by a GOD even a bunch of loosely strung together ideas can form into brilliant art that transforms and touches the human soul. Like in Picard season 3!

What are things like in your universe where Picard season 3 was actually good?

 

[Ovation]

When guided by a GOD even a bunch of loosely strung together ideas can form into brilliant art that transforms and touches the human soul. Like in Picard season 3!

Umm…no.

 

[Santa Kang]

What are things like in your universe where Picard season 3 was actually good?

Unfortunately the world is ruled by apes.