Jodorowsky's Dune

[J.T.B.]

I've seen this movie talked about on the side of some other threads, but I just watched it and thought it deserved its own. I thought it was a great documentary, I could easily have watched another hour of O'Bannon, Giger and Foss's commentary. As for the project in the documentary...

First of all, it was obvious to me that the movie was going to be only loosely based on the novel. That would be a deal-breaker for many Herbert devotees, but personally I have no problem with it, as long as it makes for a good movie.

It was also pretty clear to me that the movie was never going to be made. The distance between what they wanted to do and what they could do was sooo great, and there seemed to be absolutely no consideration of limits, technical, financial or otherwise. Dali wants $100,000 an hour? Give it to him! The only reason it got as far as it did was the almost fanatical enthusiasm Jodo had for this dream project. But that enthusiasm is infectious. After an hour and a half, you can totally understand why Nicholas Winding Refn was convinced, after Jodo personally laid out the movie for him, that it would be "awesome."

My only experience with Jodorowsky is seeing El Topo as a midnight movie c. 25 years ago. I was not under any "influence," so while I enjoyed the weirdness of it I thought it was somewhat indulgent and kind of a mess. I've never felt a need to see it again, though I am reconsidering that now after the documentary. With that background, I felt like one of the people said in the movie before meeting him: Was this guy crazy, could he even relate to normal life? And then in the documentary he appears as a very enthusiastic, open-hearted artistic guy who really believes in what he's doing, and it was hard not to root for him. I really wanted to read The Incal after the movie, though not after I found that used copies go for over $200.

It was fascinating to think of the "alternate history" of science fiction movies if this Dune had been made. Comparing Jodo-Dune's psychedelic, fantastic, organic design sense with the technical, industrial look of Star Wars is quite a contrast.

What really stuck with me from the documentary, though, was how much the movie business has changed. The fact that there was a time when this kind of nut and his cohorts could get millions of dollars to work on a vaguely defined but massive project just seems amazing. And if by some chance it had been made, it would probably have been a really bizarre mess. But it would have been a personal effort from a real artist who longed to say something and change some minds. "Films have heart!" Jodorowsky shouts at the camera, and he curses the money -- "this shit" -- that turns them into products. Why shouldn't films like his be made, he asks. It's hard not to join him in his question, "Why not?!"

 

[webb3201]

I can't stop watching the documentary! It really is remarkable how much entertainment has been homogenized by business. Can you imagine him getting any of his movies made today?

I would love him to license his Dune presentation book for all to own. As an alternative to the Incal, you can grab the Omnibus edition of his "Metabarons" book for under 100.00

 

[Bisz]

I saw the documentary a few months back. I enjoyed it enough, but I got the impression that 80% of the hype around Jodorowsky Dune (as in the movie he was going to make, and not this documentary) was Jodorowsky. As much as I would want to see his version of Dune, I'm not sure if we aren't better off with everything else that was derived from work on that movie, rather than the movie itself.

 

[BigJake]

The main things I thought while watching it:

- Jodorowsky has a compelling nuttiness about him. That he came as close as he did to getting it made was incredible in itself, and the influence the people involved had on subsequent SF cinema is fascinating.

- He clearly had so little interest in the ideas and characters of the novel that I can't understand why he was or is calling it "Dune." (Adaptation is one thing, but I mean, he really had no interest in them.) He was basically using a few names and plot points from the novel as the core of his own surrealist SF vision, which with its psychedelic post-Catholic symbolism and Jodorowsky's signature obsessions (he has a thing for amputation, in particular) deserved to be totally under its own banner.

- If that movie had ever gotten out in the form Jodo envisaged, it would have launched several billion acid trips and the shape of cinema afterwards might have been very, very different.

It's a great documentary, certainly something all SF fans should see if they can manage it.

 

[HaplessCrewman]

A Jodorowsky Dune sound extremely intriguing on paper - just as a David Lynch Dune would.

Unfortunately, reality is sometimes not as forgiving.

Really liked the bit where Jodorowsky breathed a sigh of relief when he saw how Lynch's version turned out.

 

[The Wormhole]

- He clearly had so little interest in the ideas and characters of the novel that I can't understand why he was or is calling it "Dune." (Adaptation is one thing, but I mean, he really had no interest in them.) He was basically using a few names and plot points from the novel as the core of his own surrealist SF vision,

I agree. Hell, according to the documentary, neither he nor half the people working on the movie had ever even read the novel. Whatever else you want to say about David Lynch, at least he read Dune and tried to adapt it.

 

[PorthosShadow]

Jodorowsky's enthusiasm is admittedly intoxicating and I have a morbid curiosity for what his version of "Dune" would have been like. However, it was never going to get made because he was too damn inflexible and simply didn't understand that the people he was asking for money weren't the NEA. The studios for better or for worse are a business and need some reasonable assurance they will get their investment back.

Jodorowsky made it clear to them he was going to take their money and do whatever he wanted. Personally, I wouldn't have invested in him with that kind attitude.

Also, I really wish someone would publish the book with all the storyboards.

 

[Reverend]

Also, I really wish someone would publish the book with all the storyboards.

^IIRC most of that material end up is a Mobius comic book series a while back, so in a way it's already been published.

 

[Joel_Kirk]

When time permits, I do plan on watching the mini-series. And, based on the comics, that seems to be closer to the original material. Too, it - the mini-series - seems to be a lot less 'ugly' than the Lynch version.

One thing that turned me off in the Lynch version is how weird the characters, costumes, and environment looked. Not something I would watch while eating.

In regards to Jodorowsky's version, I've seen a video posted by a Youtuber - 'Your Movie Sucks' - commenting on the hypothetical project. I need to check it out due to curiousity.

 

[J.T.B.]

- He clearly had so little interest in the ideas and characters of the novel that I can't understand why he was or is calling it "Dune." (Adaptation is one thing, but I mean, he really had no interest in them.) He was basically using a few names and plot points from the novel as the core of his own surrealist SF vision, which with its psychedelic post-Catholic symbolism and Jodorowsky's signature obsessions (he has a thing for amputation, in particular) deserved to be totally under its own banner.

Yeah, like Blade Runner, I guess. Though there was really no chance of a movie being named Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?.

As for the amputation thing, maybe something he shares with George Lucas?

Really liked the bit where Jodorowsky breathed a sigh of relief when he saw how Lynch's version turned out.

That was hilarious. And I found it charming how open he was about his feelings about Lynch doing Dune, "Maybe better than me!"

One other minor thing: I thought the "Dune" logo they were using looked out of place with the rest of the art. It looked like red plastic letters from an old drive-in sign or something.

 

[Evil Twin]

One thing that turned me off in the Lynch version is how weird the characters, costumes, and environment looked. Not something I would watch while eating.

Oh, heck no. Production design-wise, the Lynch version is far superior to the mini-series, which looks rather generic by comparison. I loved the whole Jules Verne vibe they were going for in the movie. The mini-series is a way better adaptation of the book, but from a visual standpoint? Nuh-uh.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

The documentary is on my to-watch list, but I've not seen it yet.

I'm a huge fan of Herbert's books, Dune and otherwise. I've read the first Dune book five times, the second, third, and fourth books twice, and the last two once. I plan to reread all six again down the line.

I thought the Lynch film was wanting on many levels, although it did have a few strong points. The two Sci-Fi channel miniseries were better conceived, and their Children of Dune that adapted the second and third books is the best of the three.

I wouldn't describe myself as a purist (for example, some of Lynch's Dune's strong points involved deviations from the book, such as the opening segment with the Guild Navigator on Kaitain), but I do have a strong opinion of what I'm looking for in a motion picture adaptation. Nothing I've read or seen about the Jodorowsky version indicates that I would have been satisfied with it. Until I see the documentary, that's the extent of what I can say that would qualify as an informed opinion, but I thought I'd chime in anyway.

 

[Joel_Kirk]

One thing that turned me off in the Lynch version is how weird the characters, costumes, and environment looked. Not something I would watch while eating.

Oh, heck no. Production design-wise, the Lynch version is far superior to the mini-series, which looks rather generic by comparison. I loved the whole Jules Verne vibe they were going for in the movie. The mini-series is a way better adaptation of the book, but from a visual standpoint? Nuh-uh.

The documentary is on my to-watch list, but I've not seen it yet.

I'm a huge fan of Herbert's books, Dune and otherwise. I've read the first Dune book five times, the second, third, and fourth books twice, and the last two once. I plan to reread all six again down the line.

I thought the Lynch film was wanting on many levels, although it did have a few strong points. The two Sci-Fi channel miniseries were better conceived, and their Children of Dune that adapted the second and third books is the best of the three.

I wouldn't describe myself as a purist (for example, some of Lynch's Dune's strong points involved deviations from the book, such as the opening segment with the Guild Navigator on Kaitain), but I do have a strong opinion of what I'm looking for in a motion picture adaptation. Nothing I've read or seen about the Jodorowsky version indicates that I would have been satisfied with it. Until I see the documentary, that's the extent of what I can say that would qualify as an informed opinion, but I thought I'd chime in anyway.

I may have to watch Lynch's again with the mini-series to have a thorough opinion.

 

[eyeresist]

My only experience with Jodorowsky is seeing El Topo as a midnight movie c. 25 years ago. I was not under any "influence," so while I enjoyed the weirdness of it I thought it was somewhat indulgent and kind of a mess. I've never felt a need to see it again, though I am reconsidering that now after the documentary.

I have a box set of Jodorowsky's films (excluding Santa Sangre), which I got after seeing his film The Holy Mountain on TV. I think Holy Mountain is his best, but that may be because I saw it first. Compared to El Topo it has much clearer structure and philosophical intent.
But if you want your movies to be "normal" you will hate his stuff. The thinking behind his films is mystical rather than linear, and he is not afraid to be strange, dark, or downright grotesque. I have described Holy Mountain as "two hours of weird shit", and "the nearest we'll get to seeing a William Burroughs novel on the screen".

 

[PorthosShadow]

One thing that turned me off in the Lynch version is how weird the characters, costumes, and environment looked. Not something I would watch while eating.

Oh, heck no. Production design-wise, the Lynch version is far superior to the mini-series, which looks rather generic by comparison. I loved the whole Jules Verne vibe they were going for in the movie. The mini-series is a way better adaptation of the book, but from a visual standpoint? Nuh-uh.

What's funny is that David Lynch's version is by far visually superior and overall more entertaining that the mini-series. However, the mini-series is truer to the book but not as entertaining. If only someone could create a version of "Dune" that has the best of both.

 

[Awesome Possum]

I would have loved to seen Jodorowsky's version of Dune, mainly because it sounds so different and far beyond what anyone else would have done. The documentary itself is fantastic and better than most documentaries for actual movies, some of it due to the charm of Jodorowsky himself.

 

[Bisz]

What's funny is that David Lynch's version is by far visually superior and overall more entertaining that the mini-series. However, the mini-series is truer to the book but not as entertaining. If only someone could create a version of "Dune" that has the best of both.

I would disagree with both your points. Although some of Lynch's visuals are intriguing I find the mini to be both better looking and infinitely more entertaining. To each his own.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

The people that can handle Lynch's rain on Arrakis ending would probably have a conniption at seeing it gain consciousness and go on an intergalactic journey of peace or whatever. What starts out as an intriguing idea for a movie at first seems to become apeshit bonkers by the end. I'm not quite sure how that would've ever quite worked out.

It's interesting that Lynch seems to take on some of the elements of the Jodorowsky version such as having the Baron be so fat he flies around with anti-grav. In the novel, IIRC, he has such devices just to help his legs take the load.

All that being said though I'd kind of like to have a huge book meticulously detailing some dream project even if it never quite came to fruition. The Dune that never was will always be as fantastic as it ever could be. Whereas it might have been a resounding failure had it come to light. It is interesting how much of a debt Alien might've owed to Jodo's Dune given O'Bannon's involvement.