Jodie Whittaker is the 13th Doctor

[Starkers]

Interesting opinion,
But it has one big fat (pardon the pun) assumption plastered over it.

That they went out of their way to cast a woman from the get go no matter what.
I haven't seen a single piece of evidence that men were never considered for the role or did not audition.
All we know is that women were obviously considered, as well at least and that apparently Jodie killed it in the audition.
And she had to audition, she was not handpicked over anyone else.

And even if they prefered a woman this time around, so what?
They still went with someone who is right and capable for the job.
Men had their turn 13 times now, and it's probably save to say women were not even asked to audition at least 12 of those times!

Chibnall did say he wanted a woman didn't he? Obviously, as you say even if they wanted a woman that still left presumably half the actors in the UK as potential choices so it isn't quite the same as saying vote Hilary because you're saying we want a woman, now here's 35 choices and Jodi's the best one.

Edited to add, thanks @captainkirk that was what I was referring to.

 

[Kemaiku]

I wish they'd bring back Erika. She's one of the few good characters from the original movie that still hasn't been killed off. (If I had my druthers, they would have had her in place of Samira in Underworld: Blood Wars.)

Erika was killed in the destruction of the mansion along with all the other Vampires, the Cleaners confirmed that with the "no survivors" line to Alexander. They had a headcount of everyone in the building and counted the bodies as they pulled them from the rubble.

It's in the novelisation and Sony has already told fans that that's their stance on anyone from the first movie who we don't see alive in sequels.

 

[Mudd]

I posted this in another thread but according to Chibnall:
"I always knew I wanted the Thirteenth Doctor to be a woman and we're thrilled to have secured our number one choice."
So it sounds to me like men weren't considered.

It sounds as if there was no reason for men to be considered for the role. Chibnall had a charcter in mind that he wanted to cast. Writers, you know, do that.

Casting is not a black box. It is not a blind lottery, where everyone throws in their paper and then someone selects a random slip of paper from a hat held out above eye level.

That preferences and judgment enter into it is one reason decision-making processes managed by white men have long favored white men.

I think the salient question now is: how many stories will be written by women? For all the talk regarding DS9 about "strong woman characters," the writing staff was almost always entirely male, and they would default to some pretty weird sexist shit.

 

[Australis]

There are a couple of women writers over the last 2 seasons (one's an Aussie), they'll have input.

 

[MadeIndescribable]

There are a couple of women writers over the last 2 seasons (one's an Aussie), they'll have input.

Of all of NuWho there's been about 5 episodes written by women. The writers room could learn a few lessons from the casting department....

 

[DarthPipes]

I posted this in another thread but according to Chibnall:
"I always knew I wanted the Thirteenth Doctor to be a woman and we're thrilled to have secured our number one choice."
So it sounds to me like men weren't considered.

I think even if Chibnall wanted a man, the BBC was too afraid of the SJW backlash from hiring another man to play The Doctor.

 

[Jan]

I think even if Chibnall wanted a man, the BBC was too afraid of the SJW backlash from hiring another man to play The Doctor.

Oh, like there hasn't been any backlash from the misogynistic old guard, right? You know the ones I mean - silly folk who think that SJW is a bad thing and a pejorative to throw around in order to discount the views of others. Not that anybody here would be like that, of course...

 

[captainkirk]

It sounds as if there was no reason for men to be considered for the role. Chibnall had a charcter in mind that he wanted to cast. Writers, you know, do that.

I'm not suggesting there was anything wrong with their decision. I was just saying that he confirmed his idea had always been to cast a woman in the role.

 

[Professor Zoom]

Actually I am a middle-old white woman, but I still don’t like it. Which apparently makes me sexist and not emancipated at the same time.

I grew up in a country that no longer exists, where it was normal for women to work full hours, and do all kind of technical and industrial work. This was my daily life, it was not special or commented on. It was lived. They even got the same money for the same work as men. Imagine my surprise when the world changed in 1989 and I learnt that we still were talking about emancipation, a topic that for me belonged into the last century.

Before “Doctor Who”, I had been a huge “Stargate SG-1” fan. Arriving in the fandom I did not understand why Captain/Major/Colonel Carter was praised so much as a role model for little girls. In my eyes, she was just doing her job, like everyone else. They wouldn’t have gotten her for that secret mission if she wasn’t the best. Why does she need special praise for it?

So why do I not celebrate a female Doctor? I am trying to explain my feelings. I simply have no relationship with women. I have not one favorite female singer or actor. None. Zero. While I could rattle off a list of male singers and actors I consider myself a fan of.

I love watching ensemble shows like “Call the midwife”, that has like two men and at least a dozen women in good roles. I loved Catherine Tate as Donna, and I adored Olivia Colman in “Broadchurch”, but still I would never go and watch all their other works just because they are in it. Whereas at the moment I am making my way through the weirdest horror movies to see a glimpse of Sean Pertwee.

I don’t even have any sexual interest in those actors, I am asexual. Still I prefer watching them. And I will let nobody tell me what I have to like. I had 43 years to find out what I like and what I don’t. I’m pretty sure I know by now.

So having this new Doctor put right in front of my nose in an “eat or die” manner makes me not happy. If anyone thinks that the world needs more good content for women, yes I agree and please go out there and create it. But don’t invade existing things. I want to decide for myself whether I want to watch something or not. Not being pushed to do so. If it were a new show with a new character, we would be discussing the character and the acting, and not whether it was right or wrong to put her there in the first place. We wouldn’t have anything to compare it to. Can’t anyone see how that would be so much better?

Having their minds set on the get go that it had to be a woman – isn’t that the same like voting for Hillary just because she is a woman? A bit shallow.

You may say now that I always can stop watching if I don’t like it. Except I can’t. If you have invested years into a fandom, and lots of money into action figures, you don’t just stop. You struggle on, thinking you owe it to them, hoping for it to get better again. I struggled much with the last two Stargate seasons and was glad when it was finally over and I did not have to pretend anymore. This was also a case of too many changes so the original was not recognizable anymore, while it would have been better to have a fresh start with new characters and new fans.

Watching Who should be fun, not a chore. Life’s too short to do things you don’t like. I already struggled with the show in the past few years, trudging on, hoping the change would spark new interest in me. Sadly it doesn’t. So here I am, feeling meh, while everywhere I look people are rejoicing. I feel left out.

I am also afraid that no matter what they do, it will spark huge discussions. If they change the character to make her more compassionate, empathic, “female”, everyone will complain about clichés. If they carry on as before, everyone will ask why the need for change if it does not make any difference. They cannot win.


I hated the way she was always talking down to him. All this rapid fired “Listen-listen-listen”. He’s not a baby. It was grating on my nerves. If that is what a strong woman is written like, they are doing it wrong.

Carter (in the Stargate pilot) was written as a bitch at first as well, but then the actress went to the (male) writers and asked why she can’t be a woman and still likeable. And when the pilot was remastered ten years later, that one questionable line was gone.

I equally hated how the Doctor called Clara “fat” and “ugly”. What kind of role model is that giving to both young boys and girls? Boys will think it’s okay to say such things, and girls will think they are fat and ugly. Apparently I was the only one complaining about that at the time. And I was told this is British humor which I simply don’t get and that “me and my mates insult each other all the time”. Well, I rather not be friends with such a person, thank you very much.

I hear you. Change can be difficult, especially when something is a comfort.

But, what I'm most alarmed by in your post is when you talk about not being able to just stop watching. Even when it is a chore. Entertainment shouldn't be a chore. It should be entertaining.

That's a tough place to be in, when the thing you love has changed.

I hope you give the show a chance with Whittaker.

 

[VDCNI]

I think even if Chibnall wanted a man, the BBC was too afraid of the SJW backlash from hiring another man to play The Doctor.

The BBC spend most of their time running scared of the right wing media. They barely react to criticism from the left.

 

[Qonundrum]

Of all of NuWho there's been about 5 episodes written by women. The writers room could learn a few lessons from the casting department....

It's a little more complex than that - such as women who like to write sci-fi, if the showrunner likes the ideas the candidates pitch to them, and so forth. If no women are available in a needed timeframe, does the show not get made or do we rely on some other group to ensure enough manufactured product gets out for blissful consumption? I'm not a showrunner so I can't answer those. Showrunners can, and if they're all honest you'll get every answer under the sun based on how they do things.

I hope Chibnall's reasoning is more for a solid vision and direction than soulless pandering. We'll know next year.

 

[Qonundrum]

The "role model" thing is something I can never really relate to. When I was a kid I had fantasy characters as role models - Superman when I was five, and when I was twelve or thirteen, Spock - briefly. But pop culture characters are at best incomplete and usually superficial caricatures of human beings, completely adapted to service the repetitious plots of commercial fiction.

Identification with a character is something quite different, and the shows I do enjoy are those where I identify strongly and emotionally with the characters - most often, more than one and including some of the characters I loathe.

I can relate to and even identify to an extent with Spock, Data, Bashir, Geordi, Scotty, Tuvok, and Neelix. But I too know that they, like all characters, are incomplete as such.

As for role models: I may not be them, but I am still in awe of role models such as Sisko, Picard, and Janeway for what they do to keep all sorts of people working together.

As for Jodie, I want her to have good writing, a decent personality she makes her own on screen, and to have a compelling characterization and not be devolved into a pandering piece of cardboard. And to take it seriously, it really does translate across the screen. Right now, she - like most other actors to get the role - are going to get rough treatment because there's a new actor taking over. Some people miss Capaldi, others say he got a raw deal or "what could have been" and would have preferred him to stay with story problems fixed. There's a clean slate now, complete with new showrunner-- wait a minute, WHO hasn't had one of them for a while, has it? Not since Verity? She did a fairly decent job, surely? How come nobody's been complaining about that for decades?

 

[Professor Zoom]

Was everyone wringing their hands wondering if Matt Smith was going to get good writing? Or Tennant? Or Capaldi?

 

[The_Baroness]

I think it's great news.

I wasn't screaming out for a woman to take the role, but never objected to it either.

It takes Dr Who further into that sci-fi world where conventions can be challenged and embraces a known fact about the character that we've never before seen.

Whether Jodie herself is right for the part is another question. I'm certainly not going to say she's not based on her being a woman, that's by-the-by.

This said, I don't think it's necessarily sexist for people to prefer a male in a certain role. As said earlier in thread - changing a characters gender DOES change the character. Men and woman are different not just in physical attributes but in personality as well.

Some characters are male. Some are female. That's not a bad thing.

The Dr IS different though. The Dr DOES change physically AND his personality changes with every incarnation so people saying it'll change who the character is - well YES! That's the point.

This works and it's really no different from casting another man in the role. It's a far cry from changing a characters gender for the hell of it.

 

[Jayson1]

I think the fear for change and diversity that comes from some white people, especially men is that they fear what role they will have in this new kind of society. Will their still be a place for them even if you aren't one of the 1% that has sort of insulated them from any change.

I think that comes from the fact that they simply don't trust people are being honest when they use words like "fair" or "equal." No doubt because the Republicans have sort of created this fear but also because of the toxic nature of the internet were it seems like people are just waiting for a fight.

That mindset I think is one of the reasons that they don't want a female Doctor. If this Doctor is a woman does it mean we will never see another white male get a shot at the role. I don't think any of this kind of thinking will change until it's proven that diversity will work for everyone. In the past they haven't even had to face that kind of thinking because it was always a lock that being white meant that society was going to give you a fair shot and if you failed it was because of individuals or government and had nothing to do with your race.

Jason

 

[DarthPipes]

Oh, like there hasn't been any backlash from the misogynistic old guard, right? You know the ones I mean - silly folk who think that SJW is a bad thing and a pejorative to throw around in order to discount the views of others. Not that anybody here would be like that, of course...

As yes, the tolerant keyboard social justice warriors who lobby for people to be fired if they don't share their views. Who throw around the words "racist, sexist, homophobic" when they can't win an argument. Who are anti-free speech and are some of the least tolerant people around (JK Rowling). Yes, wonderful contributors they are...

I'll stand by my early comments. I consider The Doctor to be a man, like I consider Wonder Woman to be a woman and Harry Potter to be British. I think today's PC culture, SJW-types played a role in this casting decision. That's my opinion.

But I'm not going to stop watching Doctor Who, despite my disappointment with their decision. I'm going to keep watching and hopefully with a new Doctor and especially a new showrunner, the show will regain some of its old form that has been lost under the endless Moffat regime.

 

[VDCNI]

People throwing around labels when they can't win an argument. You know like calling people SJW's and blaming things on PC culture I suppose!

 

[StCoop]

As yes, the tolerant keyboard social justice warriors who lobby for people to be fired if they don't share their views. Who throw around the words "racist, sexist, homophobic" when they can't win an argument. Who are anti-free speech and are some of the least tolerant people around (JK Rowling). Yes, wonderful contributors they are...

As opposed to wonderful kind souls of the alt-right. I'd link to some examples of the stuff they come out with but it would probably get me banned.

No one is obliged to respect the opinions of anyone who places themself in opposition to progress and equality and the words Soical Justice Warrior will never work as an insult because it's something to be proud to be not to be ashamed of.

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

Interesting opinion,
But it has one big fat (pardon the pun) assumption plastered over it.

That they went out of their way to cast a woman from the get go no matter what.
I haven't seen a single piece of evidence that men were never considered for the role or did not audition.
All we know is that women were obviously considered, as well at least and that apparently Jodie killed it in the audition.
And she had to audition, she was not handpicked over anyone else.

And even if they prefered a woman this time around, so what?
They still went with someone who is right and capable for the job.
Men had their turn 13 times now, and it's probably save to say women were not even asked to audition at least 12 of those times!

Did they audition any women in the past?

 

[The Laughing Vulcan]

I see the abbreviation SJW and I have a Spiderman/Doctor Who mash-up moment. Sarah-Jane Watson?