Jennifer Lien status

[Guy Gardener]

This isn't magic, it's science.

Tieran may think that he is Tieran, but really he's just a recording of Tieran that thinks that it is Tieran, who has all the powers of a computer program living inside humanoid flesh, who's default computerized settings are to invade and take over as a quickly as possible.

 

[KelisThePoet]

There is really no indication as to when the "warlord" takes control of her. She acts completely like herself until the scene in the transporter room.

If Kes acting like herself constitutes snapping at Neelix for no reason and ditching him for that pair of losers, that's a self I don't have any desire to know.

Yes, that's true, but as you know, Neelix was quite beside himself, for one thing. It could've had a lasting effect on how he viewed and treated her. Kes' predicament could've altered the course of her relationship with Neelix in a way that was meaningful and poignant. But, as you say, none of that's in the final thing, except that we're treated to Neelix whinging. I was referring mostly to a lost opportunity.

I see your point now. Thanks for explaining further. I'm quick if you give me enough time.

I actually think "Fury" is a well-done episode in terms of plotting, pacing and production values. The first time I saw it, I'd never seen the early seasons of Voyager and had no idea who Kes was. I assumed she was a character invented for the purpose of the episode, like Lindsey Ballard in "Ashes to Ashes," and I enjoyed the adventure.

It's only knowing who Kes is that makes the episode less enjoyable to me, because I think it's a tired and unsatisfying writers' trick to completely ruin the life and personality of one of the major characters. And in Kes' case, this was actually a trick the writers started as early as "Cold Fire," though "Fury" was its culmination.

 

[2takesfrakes]

To me, "Fury" just seemed to be an attempt at mitigating Seven of Nine's having been a 'replacement' or 'substitute' for Kes. With Jeri Ryan now firmly cemented as VOYAGER's lead, Seven of Nine needed to be in an equally exalted position. And what easier way to accomplish this, than by deconstructing and shaming her predecessor? Hardly ingenious, or original ... but effective.

 

[Sophie74656]

If Kes acting like herself constitutes snapping at Neelix for no reason and ditching him for that pair of losers, that's a self I don't have any desire to know.

It didn't seem like she was snapping at Neelix for no reason to me.

 

[Sophie74656]

To me, "Fury" just seemed to be an attempt at mitigating Seven of Nine's having been a 'replacement' or 'substitute' for Kes. With Jeri Ryan now firmly cemented as VOYAGER's lead, Seven of Nine needed to be in an equally exalted position. And what easier way to accomplish this, than by deconstructing and shaming her predecessor? Hardly ingenious, or original ... but effective.

I know I'm in the minority that likes Fury. To me it was the only time Kes actually did anything interesting. And I thought the end was sweet:
NEELIX: A few snacks for the journey. You do still like leola root?
KES: Thank you. What?
NEELIX: Just looking.
KES: See anyone you know?
NEELIX: Only you.
JANEWAY: Goodbye, Kes.
KES: Captain.
(Tuvok beams Kes away. Neelix leaves.)
TUVOK: What should we tell the others?
JANEWAY: A friend got lost. We helped her find her way

I know Jennifer Lien herself has said several times she liked the episode and was involved in the writing of it.

 

[Guy Gardener]

It didn't seem like she was snapping at Neelix for no reason to me.

His typical level of annoying shittiness, Kes finds hot.

She's into it.

 

[Sophie74656]

His typical level of annoying shittiness, Kes finds hot.

She's into it.

Again I'm also in the minority here but I rarely found him annoying. Lovable and caring

 

[Lynx]

I know I'm in the minority that likes Fury. To me it was the only time Kes actually did anything interesting. And I thought the end was sweet:
NEELIX: A few snacks for the journey. You do still like leola root?
KES: Thank you. What?
NEELIX: Just looking.
KES: See anyone you know?
NEELIX: Only you.
JANEWAY: Goodbye, Kes.
KES: Captain.
(Tuvok beams Kes away. Neelix leaves.)
TUVOK: What should we tell the others?
JANEWAY: A friend got lost. We helped her find her way

I know Jennifer Lien herself has said several times she liked the episode and was involved in the writing of it.

I get the impression that the only people who like that s***ty excuse for a Star Trek episode is those who dislike the character Kes.

I don't find the end sweet. I find it sick, morbid and horrible.

I haven't seen Jennifer Lien ever mentioning that she in any way liked the episode. What I've seen are some half-hearted explanations, sort of "nice to meet the old buddies again" which could as well have been written by her press agent or some outsider. her only involvment in the writing procedure was when she persuaded those in charge not to kill off the character in the end of that crap episode, something those nice, friendly, benevolent and caring people had planned from the beginning.

 

[Lynx]

To me, "Fury" just seemed to be an attempt at mitigating Seven of Nine's having been a 'replacement' or 'substitute' for Kes. With Jeri Ryan now firmly cemented as VOYAGER's lead, Seven of Nine needed to be in an equally exalted position. And what easier way to accomplish this, than by deconstructing and shaming her predecessor? Hardly ingenious, or original ... but effective.

Now that wouldn't surprise me at all.

 

[Lynx]

I just don't believe that he would know how to act exactly like Kes so that nobody would notice

Of course he could. He had full access to her mind.

 

[Sophie74656]

I get the impression that the only people who like that s***ty excuse for a Star Trek episode is those who dislike the character Kes.

I don't find the end sweet. I find it sick, morbid and horrible.

I haven't seen Jennifer Lien ever mentioning that she in any way liked the episode. What I've seen are some half-hearted explanations, sort of "nice to meet the old buddies again" which could as well have been written by her press agent or some outsider. her only involvment in the writing procedure was when she persuaded those in charge not to kill off the character in the end of that crap episode, something those nice, friendly, benevolent and caring people had planned from the beginning.

I've seen her several times at conventions and heard from her own mouth that she liked the episode and took part in writing it. So that is what I will believe.

 

[Sophie74656]

Of course he could. He had full access to her mind.

No way to know if he did or not, she was fighting him. He did have some access to her mind later on once he had been in her for a while and she was growing tired from fighting him. But it's not made clear exactly when he took control of her

 

[Lynx]

I've seen her several times at conventions and heard from her own mouth that she liked the episode and took part in writing it. So that is what I will believe.

Well, she haven't done that many conventions after being kicked out of Voyager and what I know from people who have been at those conventins, the s**t episode hasn't been the main discussing topic at those. And frankly, it doesn't meen anything to me because I won't change my mind about that episode no matter what.

And as I wrote before: Her her only contribution in the writing procedure was when she persuaded those in charge not to kill off the character in the end of that crap episode, something those nice, friendly, benevolent people who care so much about their actors and fans had planned from the beginning.

 

[Sophie74656]

Well, she haven't done that many conventions after being kicked out of Voyager and what I know from people who have been at those conventins, the s**t episode hasn't been the main discussing topic at those. And frankly, it doesn't meen anything to me because I won't change my mind about that episode no matter what.

And as I wrote before: Her her only contribution in the writing procedure was when she persuaded those in charge not to kill off the character in the end of that crap episode, something those nice, friendly, benevolent people who care so much about their actors and fans had planned from the beginning.

I'm not trying to change your mind, just stating facts.

The only conventions I have been to myself have been after Voyager was off the air and I have Jennifer Lien a few times and she has spoken about leaving the show and about Fury. Those times she has not said that she was "kicked off the show". She said that her contract was not renewed, which is very common in Hollywoodm and she moved on with no hard feelings. She also mentioned talking to the writers and working with them on the script for more than just "not to kill off the character".

Believe what you like. Since I heard the actress herself say these things in person, that is what I will believe.

 

[Lynx]

I'm not trying to change your mind, just stating facts.

The only conventions I have been to myself have been after Voyager was off the air and I have Jennifer Lien a few times and she has spoken about leaving the show and about Fury. Those times she has not said that she was "kicked off the show". She said that her contract was not renewed, which is very common in Hollywoodm and she moved on with no hard feelings. She also mentioned talking to the writers and working with them on the script for more than just "not to kill off the character".

Believe what you like. Since I heard the actress herself say these things in person, that is what I will believe.

Asked about this at a convention in 2004 or 2005, Jennifer admitted that she had been fired from the show.

As for her contributions to the s**t episode, Jennifer's only contribution was that she persuaded those in charge not to kill off the character. At IMDB she is credited as "script revisor" (officially uncredited) which is exactly what she was when she made them change the end of the episode.

 

[Sophie74656]

Asked about this at a convention in 2004 or 2005, Jennifer admitted that she had been fired from the show.

As for her contributions to the s**t episode, Jennifer's only contribution was that she persuaded those in charge not to kill off the character. At IMDB she is credited as "script revisor" (officially uncredited) which is exactly what she was when she made them change the end of the episode.

Well that's not what she said

 

[Guy Gardener]

Her story changed.

Reasons.

Jennifer is under no legal obligation to be completely honest at conventions.

 

[Sophie74656]

Her story changed.

Reasons.

Jennifer is under no legal obligation to be completely honest at conventions.

Maybe, maybe not. But personally if I'm going to believe a story it will be what I heard her say directly over something I read on some random website. But that's just me

 

[KelisThePoet]

Again I'm also in the minority here but I rarely found him annoying. Lovable and caring

I also found Neelix lovable and caring. Which is why I found Kes' snapping at him harsh and unprovoked.

I always like it when guests at conventions stay classy and positive in their discussions of their work and their co-workers. In addition to being smart and considerate to their colleagues, such positivity is respectful to the fans and audience, some of whom like episodes that others hate. I'm glad I've never been to a convention and heard a Star Trek actor trash one of my favorite episodes. All of which is to say, whatever complicated facts and feelings went into Jennifer Lien's work on "Fury," I'm glad to hear that she speaks positively about it and about her Voyager experience at conventions.

 

[Sophie74656]

I also found Neelix lovable and caring. Which is why I found Kes' snapping at him harsh and unprovoked.

I always like it when guests at conventions stay classy and positive in their discussions of their work and their co-workers. In addition to being smart and considerate to their colleagues, such positivity is respectful to the fans and audience, some of whom like episodes that others hate. I'm glad I've never been to a convention and heard a Star Trek actor trash one of my favorite episodes. All of which is to say, whatever complicated facts and feelings went into Jennifer Lien's work on "Fury," I'm glad to hear that she speaks positively about it and about her Voyager experience at conventions.

I have seen many of the actors from every series, and with one exception, they are always great. They speak highly of each other, the show and are always considerate to the fans asking questions, even if that question is something odd.