I've thought that too.
Jennifer Lien status
- Thread starter Drone
- Start date
In "Cold Fire" kes did get a taste of some darkness while exploring her powers but did she enjoy it?
Well, maybe first but then she realized how dangerous and evil it was when she almost killed Tuvok and when the flowers died.
Thereffore she wouldn't want to follow Tanis to Suspiria's array because she knew that evil forces were involved. She fought those forces and saved the ship from destruction.
It was also clear that Tanis was responsible for the increased force of her powers. When Tanis left, she didn't have those forces. She also told Tuvok that she didn't want to experience her "dark sides" again.
And she didn't.
Therefore, the events in "The Gift" and the insulting crap episode in season 6 are totally illogical and the events in them makes no sense at all, other than to get rid of the character as soon as possible in the first place and humiliated, destroy and kill off the character and show the finger to the fans of the character in the second place. There was no arc or planned continuity in it, just whims and character destruction.
Well, maybe first but then she realized how dangerous and evil it was when she almost killed Tuvok and when the flowers died.
Thereffore she wouldn't want to follow Tanis to Suspiria's array because she knew that evil forces were involved. She fought those forces and saved the ship from destruction.
It was also clear that Tanis was responsible for the increased force of her powers. When Tanis left, she didn't have those forces. She also told Tuvok that she didn't want to experience her "dark sides" again.
And she didn't.
Therefore, the events in "The Gift" and the insulting crap episode in season 6 are totally illogical and the events in them makes no sense at all, other than to get rid of the character as soon as possible in the first place and humiliated, destroy and kill off the character and show the finger to the fans of the character in the second place. There was no arc or planned continuity in it, just whims and character destruction.
M
marlboro
Guest
Yeah, "Fury" came out of left field didn't it?
I was a bit disappointed that Kes, the Ocampa, and the female Caretaker weren't somehow incorporated into the final episode of Voyager.
I was a bit disappointed that Kes, the Ocampa, and the female Caretaker weren't somehow incorporated into the final episode of Voyager.
Shouldn't Neelix and Kes have taken a Lung each from old Kes after Janeway murdered her?
Yes, me too.
It would have been a logical conclusion with the female Caretaker involved.
If those in chage had had souls instead of pieces of led and wallets, then they would have had Kes comiing back in the final episode to persuade the female Caretaker not to destroy the ship. The female Caretaker would have realized that destroying the ship would have been wrong. She would have given Kes a human lifespan and sent Voyager back to the Alpha Quadrant. Then we would have seen a real homecoming for our favorites.
And maybe a happy ending between janeway and Chakotay too!
I never understood it, why the EMH never made extending Kes' Life a priority ... especially, once they started working so closely together. All of those "brilliant" medical proceedures and equipment he'd come up with, but retool Kes' DNA ... out of the question!
Because it would be against Kes' wishes ? There is this conversation in before and after, and I suspect she would have had the same attitude about this in the main timeline.
That would be Eugenics.
Closer to her end, Dr Mozart leaned in.
Besides, after the EMH doubled her life expectancy, why not triple Tuvoks life expectancy too?
I Just hope that Linnis inherited her father's lifespan. Maybe some good can still come out of this ...
Andrew is less than a year old in the seventh season of Voyager.
OOOOOO!
If the Ocampan DNA pertaining to life span is hyper dominant, and they're all kind sexy, super duper sexy.... After maybe just 10 thousand years its possible that everyone in the civilized glaxay, not hiding in a bunker from the Ocampans, only lives for 9 years.
OOOOOO!
If the Ocampan DNA pertaining to life span is hyper dominant, and they're all kind sexy, super duper sexy.... After maybe just 10 thousand years its possible that everyone in the civilized glaxay, not hiding in a bunker from the Ocampans, only lives for 9 years.
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Note that it is Linnis, a character from an alternate universe or a non-existing universe who utter those words.
It's as relevant as if the mirror Kirk should set the standard for the missions of the Enterprise or if Kes being married to The Doctor (as in "Projections") would be regarded as the truth and nothing but the truth.
In that case the following discussion can be regarded as relevant as well:
”But my dear,” said Q. ”You are really making it difficult for me. I’m sure there is something you really want to do. Wish something and you will see that all that you want and wish can come true.”
”There is indeed one thing I wish more than anything and I would be so happy if you could fulfil that wish.”
”Go on, tell me, my dear. I promise to fulfil your wish whatever it is,” said Q with a benevolent smile.
”I want to have a lifespan like the humans, I want to be like them as much as possible and I want to be back on Voyager with my friends. I want to travel with them to Earth,” Kes said with determination. ”That’s the only thing I want.”
Q stared at her with a surprised look on his face. ”What! Is that what you want most of all? I can’t believe it?”
”Yes, that’s what I want,” said Kes calmly. ”And you promised to fulfil my wish, whatever it was.”
Q continued to stare at her, as he didn’t believe a word. ”You stupid-,” ”-girl!” he blurted out. ”I’m offering you a place in the Continuum, I’m offering you powers and experiences beyond what you can understand, in fact I’m offering a place in a paradise existence! And what do you want? You want to be like the humans, with a life span of 70-80 years and go back to Voyager to spend the coming years in that tin can together with Janeway’s gang. You must be insane! Totally out of your mind!”
”No,” said Kes very calmly. ”I’m not insane and not out of my mind. I love my friends on Voyager and the life I lived there. I didn’t want to leave; I just did it because I was afraid to destroy the ship with my powers. But without them, I will no longer be a treat to Voyager. I want to go back to my friends on the ship and I beg you to fulfil that wish of mine.”
From the Kes come-back story "Coming Home"
I was curious what others had to say about a Linnis/Harry combination and googled it. Instead, I came across something quite astonishingly different. Fan Fiction entitled:
"The Fathers and Husbands of Mayflies"
https://www.fanfiction.net/s/8784702/1/The-Fathers-and-Husbands-of-Mayflies
This author's really detailed and everything with his narrative. He gets all into it ... and without a hint of taking the mickey, here. I skimmed through it and I'm just like ... I don't know, boy ... but you be the judge.
"The Fathers and Husbands of Mayflies"
https://www.fanfiction.net/s/8784702/1/The-Fathers-and-Husbands-of-Mayflies
This author's really detailed and everything with his narrative. He gets all into it ... and without a hint of taking the mickey, here. I skimmed through it and I'm just like ... I don't know, boy ... but you be the judge.
@Lynx, if you believe that the Kes of that timeline ('alt-Kes' ) had little to do with 'our' Kes ('prime-Kes'), then do you interpret the end of the episode, where it seems alt-Kes replaces prime-Kes in our timeline? Was prime-Kes lost from that point in time forwards, or do you have a different theory on that?
Moreover, though we can't be sure that prime-Kes would have said the same thing, alt-Kes certainly does not seem a whole lot different to me as a character, not in the way the mirror universe characters usually seem antipoles to prime universe characters. So I still think there's a strong possibility prime-Kes would have said the same thing.
Moreover, though we can't be sure that prime-Kes would have said the same thing, alt-Kes certainly does not seem a whole lot different to me as a character, not in the way the mirror universe characters usually seem antipoles to prime universe characters. So I still think there's a strong possibility prime-Kes would have said the same thing.
I'm not so sure that "alt-Kes" actually replaced "prime-Kes", more that "prime-Kes" in some way had experienced what "alt-Kes" went through in that alternate timeline.
And as I wrote before, it was Linnis who came up with that statement. She might have had another view on those things than her mother in that alternate future. And "prime-Kes" may have had another opinion as well, otherwise she wouldn't have gone through The Doctor's attempts of life-prolonging.
As for Neelix, if Kes had grown tired of him at the height of his jealousy, in Season 2, I suppose her response would have been justified, but I find it unfair and overly harsh for Kes to drop Neelix in Season 3; but totally in keeping with the darker, more selfish Kes that was emerging by that point.
As for "Darkling" and "Warlord," both depict Kes as enticed and tempted by her dark side, particularly "Darkling." "Darkling" also sets up the idea of Kes wanting to explore a life outside Voyager, of Kes growing apart from her Voyager family, themes logically continued in "The Gift" and "Fury."
But "Darkling" and "Warlord" pale in comparison to "Cold Fire" for establishing a darker Kes. If Kes could be that tempted not just by darkness but by power once, and pull back, it makes all the sense in the world that Kes could be tempted by the same things and fail to pull back later, especially given her different circumstances, away from the crew. "Cold Fire" is the prequel to "Fury" and "Fury" is the sequel to "Cold Fire." They are a set.
As for the question of whether Kes is "damaged" by this development of her character, I suppose it's a matter of personal taste. I don't like my main characters to go down such Faustian roads.
As for "Darkling" and "Warlord," both depict Kes as enticed and tempted by her dark side, particularly "Darkling." "Darkling" also sets up the idea of Kes wanting to explore a life outside Voyager, of Kes growing apart from her Voyager family, themes logically continued in "The Gift" and "Fury."
But "Darkling" and "Warlord" pale in comparison to "Cold Fire" for establishing a darker Kes. If Kes could be that tempted not just by darkness but by power once, and pull back, it makes all the sense in the world that Kes could be tempted by the same things and fail to pull back later, especially given her different circumstances, away from the crew. "Cold Fire" is the prequel to "Fury" and "Fury" is the sequel to "Cold Fire." They are a set.
As for the question of whether Kes is "damaged" by this development of her character, I suppose it's a matter of personal taste. I don't like my main characters to go down such Faustian roads.
I agree that Kes should've dumped Neelix, by Season Two. No one would've been surprised by it. Everyone would've sided with her. He saved Kes' Life and that would've merited and earned him a kiss, in other circumstances. But it went way beyond that ... and it aught not have. He was an over-the-hill hyæna whilst she was young & beautiful. The only thing they had in common was the fact that they were both Delta Quadrant aliens. Their relationship has always reminded me of "The Unequal Marriage" painted by Vasily Pukirev.
Daddy issues.
Her father died, so she crawled through the sky into the unknown universe to find a new daddy.
Cullah made a bad daddy.
Galahad, I mean Neelix is her new, new Daddy.
Her father died, so she crawled through the sky into the unknown universe to find a new daddy.
Cullah made a bad daddy.
Galahad, I mean Neelix is her new, new Daddy.
Kes ... Linnis ... Seven ... they all have that in common, this need for a Sugar Daddy in a world without money. Perhaps it's taboo that adds interest to and for them to get involved with someone so much older. Chakotay only went with a younger woman because those his age were getting quite long in the tooth. And even the darkest room could never sufficiently conceal that fact from him ...
Oh pish posh, older women are great, and you know it.
Chuckles was possibly the oldest human on Voyager?
Could he date a woman closer to his own age, if there were no women, other than Janeway who'd already rejected him, closer to his own age aboard the ship?
(And he probably might have had 5 years on Kathy, so they never would have hung out with the same people at the Academy, unless he had to repeat a couple classes/years.)
Chuckles was possibly the oldest human on Voyager?
Could he date a woman closer to his own age, if there were no women, other than Janeway who'd already rejected him, closer to his own age aboard the ship?
(And he probably might have had 5 years on Kathy, so they never would have hung out with the same people at the Academy, unless he had to repeat a couple classes/years.)
Older women are a lot fun, I'm sure ... until a friend sees you with one.
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