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Jennifer Lien in trouble again?

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More like a middle finger to the Kes character. Normally, special guest appearances from a beloved character the writers of Star Trek try to make the characters' appearance, you know, special. For instance, when Denise Crosby made her return to TNG, her character got "Yesterday's Enterprise", and her follow up episodes like "Redemption" and "Unification"; Jonathan Frakes made a special appearance on DS9 and we got "The Defiant", it may have been the doppelganger Thomas Riker but the episode for me felt special. "Fury" I didn't get that, the episode was a really weak time travel episode and did nothing to propel or give optimism for the Kes character.
I can agree here.
As for "yesterday's Enterprise", it was good but I was not too fond of that Sela plot in "Redemption" and "Unification". I thought it was weak.

As for Crosby, I have always thought that it was a mistake to kill of Tasha Yar. They should have let her leave and then brought back the character, either as a regular or for some guest appearances.

"The Defiant" was a good episode.

The crap episode in Voyager's season 6 was just bad and I agree that it was a middle finger to Kes.
And her fans. :mad:
 
I'm not so sure the writers cared either way. They may not see Kes the way her fans do.
 
"Fury" I didn't get that, the episode was a really weak time travel episode and did nothing to propel or give optimism for the Kes character.

Yeah, it was a weak episode. Agreed. But maybe they were trying to give Kes a good episode and just thoroughly messed it up?
 
'Warlord' was great only because Lien gave such a strong performance. She was the consummate megalomaniac in that episode and it stays in my mind because she was that compelling. That insane glint in her eye was just fantastic. She made me believe in the nutcase and his agenda. I mean the way she tore into the palace decor after ripping the title from the old man's hands... it was such a delight to watch. I cannot think of anyone else who has given that sort of powerful performance. Patrick Stewart was great, but he has never played a complete and utter asshole like this (this is besides the point but he's great in 'Frazier.' OMG hilarious!) It's a pity what they did with Kess. Lien was obviously capable of a lot of depth - far more than Garett Wang for sure and even Jeri Ryan. Seven was entertaining, but she was sort of one-note in that she had that robotic personality, and when the more human aspects did come out, they were not as compelling. I've seen another thread here about how most ST characters are insipid - perhaps it's true. After all, the execs wanted a huge, broad audience and in order to do that you cannot make your elements too spicy.
 
Yeah, it was a weak episode. Agreed. But maybe they were trying to give Kes a good episode and just thoroughly messed it up?

I don't know what they, the writers, were thinking when they pretty much implied Kes would've been a damn burden if she continued onto the series. She was one of the most inventive characters Trek had created since Gul Dukat and Vedek Wynn; Kes was interesting to me because she was a character who saw the Star Trek Universe in the prism of a general audience. Everything was new to her, it reminded me of how I saw Star Trek for the first time as a child. The world is wondrous and cool, and the universe just seemed so optimistic there's no need to stay where Kes was. Kes was a valuable investment and it appeared to me, she was metaphorically a caterpillar; so the 9 years angle shouldn't have been taken literally but would eventually transform into something else... you know... something special in a series called STAR TREK.

Unfortunately, the limited imaginations from the producers couldn't get their heads out their asses and took the 9 years concept literally, and "Fury" is the result of their lack of vision.

Voyager was what it was, it was a redundant series which really and truly didn't or couldn't grasp its own potential; the series demanded to boldly go, but just couldn't look pass the grand success of Star Trek: The Next Generation and made silly attempts to monkey off of it.
 
I don't know what they, the writers, were thinking when they pretty much implied Kes would've been a damn burden if she continued onto the series. She was one of the most inventive characters Trek had created since Gul Dukat and Vedek Wynn; Kes was interesting to me because she was a character who saw the Star Trek Universe in the prism of a general audience. Everything was new to her, it reminded me of how I saw Star Trek for the first time as a child. The world is wondrous and cool, and the universe just seemed so optimistic there's no need to stay where Kes was. Kes was a valuable investment and it appeared to me, she was metaphorically a caterpillar; so the 9 years angle shouldn't have been taken literally but would eventually transform into something else... you know... something special in a series called STAR TREK.

Unfortunately, the limited imaginations from the producers couldn't get their heads out their asses and took the 9 years concept literally, and "Fury" is the result of their lack of vision.

Voyager was what it was, it was a redundant series which really and truly didn't or couldn't grasp its own potential; the series demanded to boldly go, but just couldn't look pass the grand success of Star Trek: The Next Generation and made silly attempts to monkey off of it.

Agreed - 'Fury' was totally stupid. It's like the execs came in the writers' room and said, "alright people - we need for Kess to come back and just be a complete dick. Doesn't matter how it happens. Just - she's gotta be a dick to everyone and get tossed out on her ass. Go!"

That being said, I thought Voyager was great because they turned all the roles the other way. Like they had a female captain, an ex-Maquis XO, a helmsman with a checkered past, a hothead girl for an engineer, a Borg crewer, the doctor, and so on. Plus they were not trying to explore anything, they really just were trying to get home.
 
LOL!!! More like, we have our diamond in the rough Seven of Nine, who's very popular and is saving our series*. So we can't make Kes shine in any way to give our fans doubt that we made the wrong decision to let her go.

*This theory was based on polling, of course voted by a depleted fan base, which could not possibly be proven since Trek at the time was waning in popularity.
 
LOL!!! More like, we have our diamond in the rough Seven of Nine, who's very popular and is saving our series*. So we can't make Kes shine in any way to give our fans doubt that we made the wrong decision to let her go.

*This theory was based on polling, of course voted by a depleted fan base, which could not possibly be proven since Trek at the time was waning in popularity.

That's interesting. Yeah I can see how they put Jeri Ryan in there as eye candy... but I guess they gave her a brain so it wouldn't piss off the smaller (cerebral?) segment of the viewership - the part which would not be entertained by mere t&a. Nice. Poor Kess.
 
It's these misleading polls of its day in the 90's and early 2000's which proceeded with the ridiculous notion TNG character Data was the most popular character on that series. So when the producers were green lit to make movies, their first action was to give Data nearly equal screen time as Picard, the results were a cataclysmic disaster in narrative storytelling. Data worked well within the confines of the supporting cast as Patrick Stewart carried the load on the series, but the polling numbers and fan letters was spawning the producers disillusionment for Data. When the movie "First Contact" came along and was quite popular, despite its terrible storytelling feats, the writing was on the wall on where the producers were going with Voyager.

Janeway needed her own Data type character, childlike - and very very very very very VERY resourceful in... everything!!! Janeway was a superwoman herself and bringing in Seven didn't alter or change the course of the very poor storytelling done on the series. All it did was diminish the great supporting cast's role in the series which was already declining because the series was so Janeway heavy. Lets not forget the EMH Doctor was also hogging screen time as well and this kind of overstuffed "me" "me" time pushes a great character like Kes off of the cliff.

Voyager never required to be TNG; they should've stick to their guns and allow the characters they had and flourish. If the writers can't hang by writing and developing the characters then the producers should've found new writers to keep the concept on course. What's there I believe was a permanent stain on Voyager.
 
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Voyager is not TNG. It is its own show. They are similar in that they fly around in a ship. Voyager follows its own premise as laid out in its own story bible.

"Unused potential" is not an actual objective criticism. It's criticizing a show for not doing what someone retroactively thinks it should have done, rather than critiquing it for what it did do. Making generalized complaints of the whole show of a series that ran so long is not useful, and bound to lead to inaccurate statements. It's like there's a few people who will use every post of any Voy thread to kick the whole show, over and over again. This is way beyond any objectivity. It's an emotional need to whine.

Voyager remains extremely popular for a 20 year old series. Did Star Trek wane in in viewership in the late 90's? Yes. Was that the fault of Voyager? No. It would be bonkers to claim that, unless you assign equal blame to DS9, and omit a dozen other more pressing factors.

What is Fury? Was it a "middle finger to the fans"? Obviously not. It was the writers attempting to have Kes return for a visit in a creative way. Perhaps they should just have had Kes return as a guardian angel.
Jennifer Lien was respectfully asked for input on the script, and gave it. She was fully satisfied with it and says she liked the story. There are no villains here.
 
Voyager is not TNG. It is its own show. They are similar in that they fly around in a ship. Voyager follows its own premise as laid out in its own story bible.

"Unused potential" is not an actual objective criticism. It's criticizing a show for not doing what someone retroactively thinks it should have done, rather than critiquing it for what it did do. Making generalized complaints of the whole show of a series that ran so long is not useful, and bound to lead to inaccurate statements. It's like there's a few people who will use every post of any Voy thread to kick the whole show, over and over again. This is way beyond any objectivity. It's an emotional need to whine.

Voyager remains extremely popular for a 20 year old series. Did Star Trek wane in in viewership in the late 90's? Yes. Was that the fault of Voyager? No. It would be bonkers to claim that, unless you assign equal blame to DS9, and omit a dozen other more pressing factors.

What is Fury? Was it a "middle finger to the fans"? Obviously not. It was the writers attempting to have Kes return for a visit in a creative way. Perhaps they should just have had Kes return as a guardian angel.
Jennifer Lien was respectfully asked for input on the script, and gave it. She was fully satisfied with it and says she liked the story. There are no villains here.

Okay, but only if it was a guardian angel like on a Victoria's Secret show. They could've kitted out Janeway too with wings. Also, Chakotay and Tom in thongs to balance it out.
 
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Yeah, it was a weak episode. Agreed. But maybe they were trying to give Kes a good episode and just thoroughly messed it up?
They were trying to give Kes a good episode? :eek:
In that case, I would really hate to see when they decide to give someone a bad story.
What they did was to totally destroy the character in the most sadistic way.
 
What is Fury? Was it a "middle finger to the fans"? Obviously not. It was the writers attempting to have Kes return for a visit in a creative way. Perhaps they should just have had Kes return as a guardian angel.
Jennifer Lien was respectfully asked for input on the script, and gave it. She was fully satisfied with it and says she liked the story. There are no villains here.

I know that some people disagree with me when I see that horrible episode as a middle finger to the fans. But I can't find any other reason for them to making it.

They had spent two and a half year to make people totally forfet about the character. She was never mentioned, not even in that episode when they tried to pretend that Seven had been on the ship all the time.

Then all of a sudden they bring her back, only to totally destroy, humiliate and ridicule the character. I see no other reason then that they wanted to show the middle finger to those who wanted Kes back.

Have Kes return for a visit in a creative way? Sorry, I see nothing "creative" in that piece of crap as the episode was. It only makes me think about a verse in the Deep Purple song "No, No, No":

"They talk about creation, but all they do is kill"

As for Jennifer Lien's input, what she did was to persuade them not to kill off the character, something they obviously had planned to do as a "gift" to the fans of the character. Talk about a middle finger there!
 
I know that some people disagree with me when I see that horrible episode as a middle finger to the fans. But I can't find any other reason for them to making it.

They had spent two and a half year to make people totally forget about the character. She was never mentioned, not even in that episode when they tried to pretend that Seven had been on the ship all the time.

Then all of a sudden they bring her back, only to totally destroy, humiliate and ridicule the character. I see no other reason then that they wanted to show the middle finger to those who wanted Kes back.

Have Kes return for a visit in a creative way? Sorry, I see nothing "creative" in that piece of crap as the episode was. It only makes me think about a verse in the Deep Purple song "No, No, No":

"They talk about creation, but all they do is kill"

As for Jennifer Lien's input, what she did was to persuade them not to kill off the character, something they obviously had planned to do as a "gift" to the fans of the character. Talk about a middle finger there!

Thanks for posting. Another poster had said earlier Lien had okayed the script for 'Fury' which I thought a bit odd, because it did not do her character much justice. It seemed like a really crappy way for Kess to go out.
 
For some perspective on "Fury," and the intentions behind it, here is an old interview with Jennifer Lien.

http://web.archive.org/web/20001208110100/http://www.startrek.com/news/newsarchive.asp?ID=111625

Quotes in bold:
Back in the spring of 1997, as filming wound down for the fourth season of Star Trek: Voyager, Jennifer Lien shot what appeared to be her final scenes as Kes. The character then embarked on a journey to explore her unique existence as an evolved life form. Now, after three years Jennifer returns to don the ears and the alien tunic once more, reprising her role as the enigmatic Ocampan. It is February 2000, and with Star Trek: Voyager now in its sixth season Kes marks her returns in the episode "Fury."

During her three-year hiatus, Jennifer had not returned to Paramount Pictures until January this year. So, the logical place to start was to find out what she had been up to in the interim. "Well, I've taken classes, I've been in a movie and I did some voice work and I've traveled." A succinct response, but to elaborate further Jennifer starred in the films "American History X," alongside Avery Brooks (Captain Benjamin Sisko from Star Trek: Deep Space Nine) and "SLC Punk," which premiered at the Sundance Film Festival last year. She also appeared in a short film called "The Hoofboy," directed by Will Keenan in October 1998. Her vocal talents were used in the Men in Black animated series and in "The Lion King II: Simba's Pride," alongside Matthew Broderick, Neve Campbell and Andy Dick. So, the 25-year-old actress has certainly been keeping busy.

Jennifer admitted that it was very exciting to come back and commented on how she dealt with returning to a show that she used to appear on a weekly basis. "Things pretty much still seem the same here," she commented. "It just feels like [I've been gone] a day. It doesn't feel like any time has passed, whereas in my own personal life, time has passed and I can definitely feel that." Because of all the projects that Jennifer has been involved with, it's not surprising that she feels a great deal has happened to her in the last few years.

While the surroundings at Paramount may still be the same, what of her work colleagues? Starting with the production side, Jennifer said, "Some of the people have come and gone, but overall it's still the same." During her absence, Executive Producer Jeri Taylor left the show and became an Executive Consultant with Co-Creator Michael Piller. Ms. Taylor's successor is Brannon Braga, who has been involved with Star Trek: Voyager since its first season. Another big change was the addition of cast member Jeri Ryan as Seven of Nine.

How did Jennifer's fellow cast members react to Jennifer's return? "Well, I've changed in the last three years, and other people who are still here that I knew back then have changed considerably too. So I'd imagine naturally they'd be changed if I were to come back in three more years." Prior to filming "Fury," the last time that Jennifer saw most of her shipmates was briefly at Robert Beltran's (Chakotay) Galaxy Ball at the end of October last year.

Jennifer did notice changes in the cast and the way they perform on set. "I think they're a lot happier. I think that they're happier with their characters and it's easier for them to do what they do." Jennifer also realized that the actors had a much deeper understanding of how to play their characters after playing them for six years.

On returning to the show, Jennifer was concerned how Kes would be brought back. Executive Producers Rick Berman and Brannon Braga came up with a story line that brought the character back, but with a different angle. It was the task of staff writers Bryan Fuller and Michael Taylor to write the teleplay from the story idea. Jennifer was adamant that the fate of Kes was handled with great care, so some of the plot line was changed. "I had a discussion with the writers about the original script and we all came to a conclusion that we were happy with," she states with a sigh of relief!

One thing Jennifer wanted to avoid was to come back as the same Kes that viewers were used to. "Bringing back the character in a unique way was what I wanted from the start," she explains. "I didn't want Kes to be completely Kes." If the character came back to the show as the same person as when she left, there would be no impact. In the case of "Fury," the impact is there from the start beginning with Kes' dramatic first scene. "It's pretty cool how I make my entrance. I make a lot of noise!" Although this statement seems to contradict the character of the innocent Kes from earlier seasons, Jennifer reminds us that Kes left with a bang back in season four's "The Gift"!

Without giving too much away, the episode has elements of time travel and deals with the fact that Kes is now a mature, seven year-old Ocampan. Jennifer played the character as she appeared in the first three seasons of Star Trek: Voyager as well as the "Old Kes." There is even a scene where a "Young Kes" and "Old Kes" are in the same shot. To accomplish this, Jennifer needed a clone. "There's a wonderful woman by the name of Amy Kate. And she has done a really great job. I really loved working with her on this. She's a lot of fun." When Amy Kate wore the Kes outfit, the resemblance was uncanny.

In order to play the part of the Old Kes, Jennifer had to boldly go where many a cast member of Star Trek had gone before; the make up trailer. In addition to her regular make up, Jennifer had to have some extra pieces added to make her look extremely elderly. How did she feel about these new prosthetics? "They're great!" she says with enthusiasm. "They're a lot of fun. I don't how else to say it. I mean it's really cool to be able to wear them. The make up artists are incredibly gifted," she said, singing the praises of Michael Westmore and his team. "It enhances the appearance of the character and adds to the story line. So, I'm enjoying it," then changes her tone to add, "but I only have one more day."

As for her regular makeup, (her latex ears that gave Kes her Ocampan look) Jennifer has this to say, "My ears? I can't say that I'll miss them!" After wearing them for over three years, it was a relief to finally let them go. "When I first got them, I found it hard to hear what people were saying." However, over the years Jennifer finally became accustom to the pair.

Another distinguishing characteristic that Kes had was her wardrobe of futuristic tunics. "There is one new one," Jennifer recalls. "No, actually there are two new ones," she says correcting herself. The first outfit is the one for the Old Kes. With the hair and the makeup, Jennifer resembles a fairy tale sorceress with a cape. The second outfit is a bright tunic for her young counterpart, similar to the ones Kes wore in the first two seasons, designed by Rob Blackman.

So with the episode nearly in the can, does Jennifer have any thoughts on the result of her character's actions? "Well, I think the character has changed [by] the end of the episode. She realizes that it's not cool to do what she did," she says once again trying not to give away too much of the plot. So what does she think about future appearances for Kes in Star Trek: Voyager and beyond? "I think that it just keeps the opportunity open to explore [my] character, in case they need the diversion in some way." Jennifer recounts that her mother has always joked about having a spin off show about "The Adventures of Kes! "She thinks that it would be a great success!"

Regarding any serious involvement with future Star Trek: Voyager episodes, Lien remains philosophical. "I don't know," she says. "I'm not really worried about it." At the moment Jennifer has a lot on her plate. She has several projects that she is interested in and has a few travel commitments. In fact immediately after "Fury" wrapped, Jennifer and her mother, Delores, were off to England.

With Star Trek: Voyager reaching the end of its sixth season and with only one more year to go, would Jennifer want to do something similar to what Denise Crosby (Tasha Yar) did and reprise her role for the final episode? After a long pause, Jennifer tackles this issue and says with complete honesty, "Well, once again I don't know. I never know where I'll be or what I'm going to be doing at that point in time," she says. "However I do know that the show will grow. The show is going to grow without the character that I portrayed on it. So wherever it happens to be toward the culmination of the show, it will be at a point where [my character] may not be necessary or required. In that case the character won't be an important part of the story and therefore will not be needed. So yes, I could see not doing it. I could see not being asked back. I could also see that maybe there's a potential. Who knows?

"It's not a typical job," she states, "It's an honor. There's a difference. It was very nice of them to ask me back."

So, whether or not Jennifer Lien is asked by the producers of Star Trek: Voyagerto return to play Kes may not be the important thing. It's the way that she is brought back that is important to her. "Fury" gives Jennifer a chance to explore the character she created and take Kes to new frontiers, and at the same give the viewers one heck of a ride.
 
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For some perspective on "Fury," and the intentions behind it, here is an old interview with Jennifer Lien.

http://web.archive.org/web/20001208110100/http://www.startrek.com/news/newsarchive.asp?ID=111625

Quotes in bold:

OK so we may all be partly wrong and partly right. I did some research.
1. I do see from the article on 5/1/2000 at startrek.com (above) where Lien is OK with the 'Fury' concept.
2. But, here's an article from 8/9/2010 on startrek.com - another Lien interview where she admits she made some crappy choices as far as acting - on the question of 'Fury.' (please scroll to the middle of the interview)
https://www.startrek.com/article/catching-up-with-jennifer-lien
3. Then I found this review on the episode at them0vieblog (6/21/18) which examines in detail what happened with the producers, etc. It does detail how the 'Fury' script wasn't the best (about 2/3 down) for Kes:
https://them0vieblog.com/2018/06/21/star-trek-voyager-fury-review/
I hope this helps.

I do know (firsthand) that even when shit happens within a production, actors and crews frequently maintain a story in order to keep things looking smooth on the surface (so even if you had a shit fit about an episode and wanted to smack everyone upside the face including the producers, in public you say, "oh yeah this will work", "I can work with anyone", "this is cool", "everyone is very professional" and "happy to be working with XYZ again" etc.
 
I'll read the rest of the movie blog article later, but what trash. The quotes used in that article are the same quotes I posted, albeit out of context, or quotes found right on the wiki. So years later Lien, when asked which episode she preferred, the Gift, or Fury. She answers the "probably the gift" and then relates how she felt her acting was a bit off from being absent for so long. None of this negates the fact that she liked the story, and wanted the story to be that way. As far as I am aware, she has not criticized the story she praised years earlier.

And look at this:

Darren(a guy who regularly trashes Voyager said:
It should be noted that this is not just a reading imposed from outside the episode looking on. On returning to the set after being away for two-and-a-half seasons, Lien herself noticed how time had seemed to stand still for her old friends on the set of Voyager:

Jennifer admitted that it was very exciting to come back and commented on how she dealt with returning to a show that she used to appear on a weekly basis. “Things pretty much still seem the same here,” she commented. “It just feels like [I’ve been gone] a day. It doesn’t feel like any time has passed, whereas in my own personal life, time has passed and I can definitely feel that.”
This is from the interview I posted, but taken completely out of context. She also says "Well, I've changed in the last three years, and other people who are still here that I knew back then have changed considerably too. So I'd imagine naturally they'd be changed if I were to come back in three more years."

She's not commenting on the show being "stagnate" or anything that Darren in trying to imply. She's commenting on how It's like being right back in the saddle. Is this reviewer stupid or dishonest?

This is the perfect example of an episode review simply used to trash the whole show in general, and harp endlessly about "serialization," "the premise," "reset buttons" and so on, and so forth. He spends more time talking about other episodes, naming as many as he can, each with its own unique pejorative attached. He also speculates on how the producers were "trying to stick it to the fans." Fury is all a meta-narrative for his perceived war between the producers and the ...I dunno... former? Voyager fans(HIM)? He's essentially identifying his own personal emotional baggage with all Voyager fans, because everyone must feel exactly like he does.

I'm at the Bryan Fuller quote, which he also takes out of context. Fuller commented on how those great powers had unexpected consequences. He turned the star trek trope of "evolving into energy beings" on its head with Kes. That's all Fuller is saying. The reviewer takes this quote and folds it into his "producers vs fans-like-him" theory.

Then I found this review on the episode at them0vieblog (6/21/18) which examines in detail what happened with the producers, etc. It does detail how the 'Fury' script wasn't the best (about 2/3 down) for Kes
So he doesn't actually offer any new information on the process by which this episode was created. He quotes from the same two interviews, plus a few quotes found right on wikipedia under the "Fury" page(and there are so few, so the author did no actual research into the behind the scenes of this episode beyond wikipedia and the interview linked to the wikipedia article).
 
Yeah, I quite enjoyed reading them0vieblog reviews as I rewatched Voyager a while back but all his articles are just him adhering religiously to his idea of how Voyager is "stuck in time" and a show about "nostalgia" which doesn't make sense to me at all. Not to mention all the times he ascribes weird motivations to writers - Fury exists as an attempted justification of the episodic format? Don't even know where to start with that. All the articles blend into one because it's the same line of argument every time: Voyager's format is outdated (as if nobody was making episodic TV around 2000), there's CHAOS!! behind the scenes and here's a quote from Rick Berman to prove it, [insert episode here] is clearly a secret coded message to fans to tell them to stop complaining, boom, article done.

His writing really strongly reminds me of when I had to write my dissertation for university but I'd left it too late to do it properly so I just grabbed context-less quotes from anywhere and everywhere, shoved them in and then desperately tried to twist them into my argument.

The Lien interview from 2010 is cool though, never seen that before and I think I did try to look her up a while ago to see how she was doing after hearing some of the worrying news about her.
 
I'll read the rest of the movie blog article later, but what trash. The quotes used in that article are the same quotes I posted, albeit out of context, or quotes found right on the wiki. So years later Lien, when asked which episode she preferred, the Gift, or Fury. She answers the "probably the gift" and then relates how she felt her acting was a bit off from being absent for so long. None of this negates the fact that she liked the story, and wanted the story to be that way. As far as I am aware, she has not criticized the story she praised years earlier.

And look at this:

This is from the interview I posted, but taken completely out of context. She also says "Well, I've changed in the last three years, and other people who are still here that I knew back then have changed considerably too. So I'd imagine naturally they'd be changed if I were to come back in three more years."

She's not commenting on the show being "stagnate" or anything that Darren in trying to imply. She's commenting on how It's like being right back in the saddle. Is this reviewer stupid or dishonest?

This is the perfect example of an episode review simply used to trash the whole show in general, and harp endlessly about "serialization," "the premise," "reset buttons" and so on, and so forth. He spends more time talking about other episodes, naming as many as he can, each with its own unique pejorative attached. He also speculates on how the producers were "trying to stick it to the fans." Fury is all a meta-narrative for his perceived war between the producers and the ...I dunno... former? Voyager fans(HIM)? He's essentially identifying his own personal emotional baggage with all Voyager fans, because everyone must feel exactly like he does.

I'm at the Bryan Fuller quote, which he also takes out of context. Fuller commented on how those great powers had unexpected consequences. He turned the star trek trope of "evolving into energy beings" on its head with Kes. That's all Fuller is saying. The reviewer takes this quote and folds it into his "producers vs fans-like-him" theory.

So he doesn't actually offer any new information on the process by which this episode was created. He quotes from the same two interviews, plus a few quotes found right on wikipedia under the "Fury" page(and there are so few, so the author did no actual research into the behind the scenes of this episode beyond wikipedia and the interview linked to the wikipedia article).

I have to agree with the guy who wrote the movieblog, although I do think that he was too nice to that episode in his comments. The only statement needed about that episode is that it was downright crap and nothing more. That would take less space.

Despite that, I find Darren's comments more believable than the propaganda phrases from Berman, Braga and Fuller. I don't give a d**n for their "official explanations" crap. They were out to destroy the character and nothing more.

I also read Bragas comments about "unpleasant fans" :lol:. Well, if he finds me and other fans of the character Kes "unpleasant" because we dared to express our opinions about Kes being axed in season 4, dared to stage a letter campaign to have Kes re-instated and dared to criticize the piece of s**t they came up with in that season 6 episode, then at least I take it as a great compliment. Take that Brannon and chew on it!

As for Jennifer Lien's involvment in this horrible plot, I must admit that she lost many gold stars in my book for participating in that episode. She should never have done that.

I mean, if I had been in the same situation, I would have told those producers where they could stuff their script and where to go. Most of her comments in those interviews (I do have that magazine somehwere in my home) looks like they are read from some script where someone tells the readers or listeners how cute and nice everything is. I guess that Jennifer is, or at least was at that time a person who didn't want to argue or create trouble.

I wish that she had turned that offer down. The only good thing with her participation is that she managed to persuade the benevolent, gentle people in charge of the show not to kill of Kes as they had planned to do. Otherwise they would probably have brought in some lookalike, splashed some make-up over the lookalike's face to make her look evil and disgusting and then killed off the character as they wanted to do.

I wish
 
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