Jean-Luc's naughty thoughts

[Sisko_is_my_captain]

Simple question: do you think Picard actually harbored naughty thoughts about Lwaxana, which he refused to admit to - or do you think she was just screwing with him to watch him squirm for her own amusement?

Personally, I find her dead sexy.

 

[Orac]

Indubitably.

 

[Oddish]

Lwaxana Troi was not Picard's type. I think that what he said about Ardra would apply to her as well: obvious and vulgar.

 

[F. King Daniel]

I think he did indeed have dirty, lusty thoughts about her.

Which of course nobody would ever know if she wasn't a telepath.

I wonder if Troi knows when he's having similar thoughts. Or if she knows when Geordi is jacking it in jeffries tube 47?

 

[DGCatAniSiri]

I think Lwaxana was MOSTLY tweaking him - Lwaxana, being a woman who takes pleasure in pleasure, sees Jean-Luc holding himself all stolid and stuffy, she poke at him, basically trying to get him to lighten up a little.

On top of that, Jean-Luc is, in many ways, "safe" for her to flirt with in her over the top way. He's a Starfleet captain, he's not likely to GENUINELY cause her offense, and, by that same token, he's not going to be available for her in truth. This makes him someone she can do and say all of this with who is not going to be threatened by or intimidated by her - which, honestly, is probably at least A LITTLE attractive to her. But she does all of this with Jean-Luc because she is fully aware that nothing is going to happen there.

That said, I wouldn't rule out Picard having at least a mild attraction to her. Not the sort where he's secretly pining over her, but just he thinks she's not unappealing. And, going back to the "she's yanking his chain a little" thing, he has a relieved thought of not having her around, Lwaxana lets him know she heard that, not by getting offended, but by turning it into a joke - "Oh, Jean-Luc! Such thoughts!"

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Lwaxana Troi was not Picard's type. I think that what he said about Ardra would apply to her as well: obvious and vulgar.

Lwaxana is many things, but vulgar is not one of them.

 

[Mojochi]

Deanna (who could also tell if he was feeling lust towards her) told him she was joking. I think it was largely self-aggrandizing malarkey, & I think the intent of the writers is that we're supposed to take it as such. It's a power advantage trip. I mean if she hadn't been the way she was, would she have gotten as much privilege while on that ship? She keeps people off balance as a way to gain advantage, & frankly, one look at Picard could tell anyone, telepath or not, that this is the perfect way to keep him off kilter.

 

[Herbert]

No. Of course not. We're not talking about a horndog like Riker, or Kirk, here. If Jean Luc wasn't interested in Jamaharon on Risa, why would he be interested in someone as obvious and forward as Lwaxana?

 

[Oddish]

Lwaxana is many things, but vulgar is not one of them.

Maybe not, but she's pushy. I doubt Picard would want someone like that.

 

[Feltman_Langer]

Lwaxana is many things, but vulgar is not one of them.

I agree, and as much as she was a bit of light relief in the earlier TNG episodes, once I saw her with Odo when they were stuck in the turbolift, I gained ALOT of respect for her as a character after that.

 

[Mojochi]

Lwaxana is many things, but vulgar is not one of them.

Well, that's a matter of opinion, & even in this case, culture. If she is indeed publicly falsifying lustfulness in Picard's thoughts, which Deanna potentially confirms when she says it's a joke, & she also publicly flaunts her man servants' pornographic thoughts about her, if she invites someone to a meal under false pretenses to make advances (Which we do love to drag Geordi about) & declares that the crew of the ship will be her pool of potential conquests, if she publicly shames her own daughter for not having done similar... you know, to some people, perhaps not people from Betazed, but some people... that could be considered vulgar.

It's not as if anyone is calling her obscene, but I mean all "vulgar" amounts to is being rude, unrefined, course, or obvious, & frankly, what is it about her that people on that ship found taxing about having her around? It's those attributes. They actually tolerate it to greater extents from her, because she's both a dignitary, & related to a respected member of the crew. Plus, her behavior might be more common within her culture. I really doubt if Riker's dad had come aboard displaying the same behavior we'd be as readily accepting of it.

For example, Picard once called Ardra vulgar, for chasing/pursuing him, & making similarly overt advances. Now Lwaxana is not an unscrupulous con artist, but that bit of behavior itself seems similarly crude... at least potentially to him.

Admittedly, I agree with @Feltman_Langer that as they spent time depicting her more well-roundedly, especially on DS9, those aspects seemed to fall away more & more, but it's not necessarily incorrect to suggest Picard might have found her, at one time, vulgar, especially if being obvious is not "tantalizing" to him.

Consider now Vash, who is also somewhat brash & untamed, but not so much intimately overt or obvious. When he thought she was, after planting that kiss on him... not interested in her at all, but when the reality came out of what she was truly like, brother did that change.

 

[vandevere]

Way I see it, she was just jerking his chain...

 

[at Quark's]

No, I don't think so. Lwaxana doesn't seem like his type.

Then again, he might very well have repressed sides that aren't even obvious to himself, but Lwaxana as a higly trained telepath might pick up on that.

Lwaxana herself would actually be of significantly higher social status than Picard (who seems to have a lot of 'middle class' sensibilities), both in terms of rank (diplomat) and birth (aristocracy). It's just that she chooses to not follow the conventions (unless Bajoran's aristocracy is very different from what we know today).

 

[vandevere]

No, I don't think so. Lwaxana doesn't seem like his type.

Then again, he might very well have repressed sides that aren't even obvious to himself, but Lwaxana as a higly trained telepath might pick up on that.

Lwaxana herself would actually be of significantly higher social status than Picard (who seems to have a lot of 'middle class' sensibilities), both in terms of rank (diplomat) and birth (aristocracy). It's just that she chooses to not follow the conventions (unless Bajoran's aristocracy is very different from what we know today).

Also, Picard may come from a family of "Minor Aristocracy", but the impression I got of Lwaxana was that her status was probably closer that that of High Nobility, if not actual royalty...

 

[Oddish]

I think she inflates things a bit. "Sacred Chalice of Riix" and all that.

 

[at Quark's]

She might pump their importance (and her stature) up a bit, but if they weren't true or if they were meaningless, she would have been exposed by now by people checking on it, as she mentions them consistently in every formal introduction. So I would presume the 'sacred chalice of riix' and 'daughter of the fifth house' actually are a thing in Betazoid society.

 

[Commander Troi]

Deanna did say the Sacred Chalice of Rixx was merely "an old clay pot with mold growing inside it."

I think @DGCatAniSiri and @Mojochi are both right - she enjoys puncturing Picard's stuffiness and keeping people off balance. How she acts is partially a front (since we learn eventually how much pain she's gone through with losing her first child and losing Deanna's father, who she loved very much) and partially a way of retaining her enjoyment of life.

I don't think she's Picard's type, but IME most men have at least have a few "naughty thoughts" about women they know. And whether they admit it or not, someone flirting with them does feed their ego. Everyone likes that on some level.

I just realized Majel was only a few years older than I am now when she started playing Lwaxana. Wow. When I initially saw TNG as a college student, I empathized with Deanna, especially in dealing with her mother. I need to re-watch these now and see how my views have changed. And maybe pick up a few pointers for being sexy at midlife!

 

[DonIago]

I'd say it was 90% or so Lwaxana having fun at Picard's expense, and 10% maybe a bit of something there, perhaps something Picard wouldn't even have reconized within himself, much less admitted publicly (because why would he?).

As for Deanna's line, of course she'd say her mother was joking. What else was she going to say under the circumstances?

 

[Mojochi]

How she acts is partially a front (since we learn eventually how much pain she's gone through with losing her first child and losing Deanna's father, who she loved very much) and partially a way of retaining her enjoyment of life.

I feel there's something about aging in there too. She's a person growing older, youth & beauty waning, & who'd valued greatly having a family, who are all but lost to her now. These are legit blows to a person's ego, that might make them act out in very much the way she does

I kind of feel like even when she belittles or otherwise makes discomfort for Deanna, she's acting on the motive that Deanna is her last living nuclear family member... & she left... to go into Starfleet... & now Lwaxana has no one. That's actually kind of heart breaking, & it's ironically taken me a long while to develop that empathy for Lwaxana, because her behavior is obvious & steers you right away from empathizing with her, but the reasons why are almost completely unmentioned on the show. You have to suss it out.

When people say TNG has no character development, I always point them to that stuff about Lwaxana, & about Riker's hidden esteem issues over the Pegasus mutiny, & Data's mischaracterization of himself as incapable of emotion, when he's clearly not entirely right. We got to better know these characters than they even knew themselves, as they tried to make them fully realized people, but we had to do it without the luxury of there being script pages dedicated to it. It's all subtext.

 

[DonIago]

^I'm not sure I agree with all of this, but it's certainly food for thought.

I was certainly impressed by how they took Lwaxana as an originally fairly frivolous character, but beginning with "Half a Life" IIRC, gradually gave her more depth. I even enjoyed her bonding with Alexander (though perhaps she should have communicated with Worf a bit more) in "Cost of Living".