James Cawley (New Voyages) has seen the Ship (Its Aweful)
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Re: James Cawley (New Voyages) has seen the Ship (Its Aweful
"And like poor marksmen, we keep... missing... consensus."
"And like poor marksmen, we keep... missing... consensus."
Re: James Cawley (New Voyages) has seen the Ship (Its Aweful
Well I am off to go see the Menagerie at the local theater.Has anone forgotten its tonight at 7:30. See yall later and I hope its worth every bit of $12.50
Well I am off to go see the Menagerie at the local theater.Has anone forgotten its tonight at 7:30. See yall later and I hope its worth every bit of $12.50
Re: James Cawley (New Voyages) has seen the Ship (Its Aweful
I get it the hell from guessing, as I wrote, and from some familiarity with the elements in the desgin of the latter day Trek ships which include: "aztecking" panels and swept back nacelles that aren't cylindrical in cross section and that the overall look of the ship is more aerodynamic than TOS Enterprise.
I get it the hell from guessing, as I wrote, and from some familiarity with the elements in the desgin of the latter day Trek ships which include: "aztecking" panels and swept back nacelles that aren't cylindrical in cross section and that the overall look of the ship is more aerodynamic than TOS Enterprise.
Re: James Cawley (New Voyages) has seen the Ship (Its Aweful
Nope, JJ reads these boards and others on a regular basis.
Outpost4 said:
If I was JJ Abrams I'd stay a couple of lightyears away from this thread.
Particularly this thread.
It's been just rumors built upon rumors.
You know, the one concrete thing we've had in the past 48 hours are really satisfying pics of Quinto as Spock. I'll stick with that.
Nope, JJ reads these boards and others on a regular basis.
Re: James Cawley (New Voyages) has seen the Ship (Its Aweful
Yes, but only in the context of reruns. It is not, and CANNOT be used in a contemporary $150 million film. While I understand Cawley's opinion, it can't really be used a credible view of what we will actually see on screen, just because the form does not fit the nostalgia for the 1960s. What remains is just an opinion about the new ship not fitting an expectation of what has been seen in the past, not the actual modern quality of the design. If it looks ANYTHING like the great production and award winning FX of Enterprise, I would be happy.
RAMA
Yes, but only in the context of reruns. It is not, and CANNOT be used in a contemporary $150 million film. While I understand Cawley's opinion, it can't really be used a credible view of what we will actually see on screen, just because the form does not fit the nostalgia for the 1960s. What remains is just an opinion about the new ship not fitting an expectation of what has been seen in the past, not the actual modern quality of the design. If it looks ANYTHING like the great production and award winning FX of Enterprise, I would be happy.
RAMA
Re: James Cawley (New Voyages) has seen the Ship (Its Aweful
It's true that all that contributes to the enjoyment of hardcore fans, but to get into the blockbuster area there needs to be a good story. Put in a good story with good acting and people won't balk at all about seeing TOS Enterprise on screen with great special effects.
It's true that all that contributes to the enjoyment of hardcore fans, but to get into the blockbuster area there needs to be a good story. Put in a good story with good acting and people won't balk at all about seeing TOS Enterprise on screen with great special effects.
Re: James Cawley (New Voyages) has seen the Ship (Its Aweful
You're crazy if you think that.
The TOS Enterprise looks great for the 1960s.
It's an original design, and it has been used as an archetype for the reboot ship.
You obviously are biased to TOS. Check out New Voyages if you want new TOS.
You're crazy if you think that.
The TOS Enterprise looks great for the 1960s.
It's an original design, and it has been used as an archetype for the reboot ship.
You obviously are biased to TOS. Check out New Voyages if you want new TOS.
Re: James Cawley (New Voyages) has seen the Ship (Its Aweful
If you show the NX-01 to anyone on the street, they'll say "hmm... looks like some sort of spaceship."
Very few people watched that show, and it didn't make all that much of an impact on those who did. (That's not an indictment of the show, just a statement of relative levels of viewership.)
The problem with most Star Trek fans is that most of us don't really have any perspective about our interest. We either assume that everyone sees what we see, or that NO ONE sees what we see.
The reality is that neither of the above is true. Virtually EVERYONE above the age of 35 knows the original Star Trek intimately. There really wasn't any choice... if you watched TV, back when there were only three or four channels in any market to watch, you DEFINITELY saw every episode of the original series several times.
You probably also know who Ginger and Maryanne are, and wonder why the Professor was trying to get off that island with both of them nearby!
You know the theme to Hogan's Heroes by heart. And so on and so on.
For younger folks... 25 to 35.. they're the transitional group, who saw it but saw a lot more other stuff too.
Those under 25 are mainly familiar with TOS through the fact that everyone else knows it and so it's hard to ignore. Sort of like how someone who can't recall ever having seen "The Wizard of Oz" all the way through still knows all about it (I'm talking about ME here!) just from the fact that it's so much a part of the culture.
EVERYONE knows Shatner as Kirk. EVERYONE knows Nimoy as Spock. And EVERYONE knows the original Enterprise. (Doesn't mean that they all LOVE these things, only that they KNOW them.)
Moving forward through the spin-off series from there, the familiarity drops off meteorically. Remarkably few people outside of Trek fandom know the Defiant, or the Akira, or the Steamrunner, or the NX-01, or the Promethius, or any of those.
They'll recognize the 1701-D, probably, but it won't be as familiar as the original. They'll recognize the 1701(r) but in most cases won't notice that it's different from the original unless they see both side-by-side.
The NCC-1701 is the single most iconic spaceship design in the history of film. Name ANY ship design that people recognize, much less any that they hold in such affection, moreso than they do for the 1701. I challenge ANYONE to seriously make such a claim.
I really don't believe that James Cawley saw the real deal. I know how security and nondisclosure law works. Unless someone WANTED to do this as a publicity stunt, or unless someone was putting their job at risk, there's no way that this would happen.
Those who HAVE seen the real ship designs are under threat of legal action if they discuss specifics. At the very least, anyone who leaks this information who's on the payroll at the SFX house would, if caught, be summarily FIRED. And anyone who HAS seen the works in progress knows that disclosing what they've seen is a violation of the agreement that they signed before their visit. It might not get them prosecuted, but it would SURE AS HELL make them "personae non-grata" at that facility from that point forward.
I've been in ... similar situations (not saying I've seen anything associated with this film, mind you). If, hypothetically, I had seen the real ship, I might be able to talk about it in vague hypotheticals, but I'd know better than to do anything more than that. As would ANYONE who signed in to ILM's roster or PPC's roster and was taken through the offices. They don't just let people walk in off the street without being checked, and without having someone escorting them at all times.
They release information when and how they feel it will best serve the needs of the production. Nobody working there can release this information, on pain of firing, without management approval.
So I'm a bit skeptical of this whole situation.
Now, for James... I can can see that someone might have decided to make an exception for him, just to get his take (out of some form of "fannishness" on the part of the person inviting him). This would be DUMB, since that person would be putting their job on the line over this.
On the other hand, I can see someone giving him some info as part of the ongoing "viral advertising" that I strongly believe is going on right now that we're all playing into.
NOTHING would make the news, and get this film FREE ADVERTISING, like having "the hardcore fans" out PROTESTING the new movie. I'm not saying James is gonna be protesting. I'm saying... I think he MIGHT be the unwitting subject of a piece of misinformation. Or just some free "market research," for that matter.
Remember, they normally don't start doing the SFX work until after, or at most very close to, the end of principle photography. And as a rule, they don't schedule to have all this stuff done long in advance... especially since that would mean that the costs of this movie would be more heavily distributed over multiple tax years. The more that they can bring into a single tax-year, the better off they are financially. So there's a tendency to try to compress schedules to support that.
I don't expect any SFX shot rendering to begin until, at the earliest, late March. I'd more expect SFX work to begin in earnest in June or July. (Those of you in the industry... please feel free to chime in if you think I'm wrong here.)
The Enterprise digital model is almost certainly not complete yet. They MIGHT be playing around with "what if" scenarios, but certainly no final models.
So anyone who thinks that they've seen it... I'd be taking what you saw with a BLOCK of salt.
If you mention "Jonathan Archer" to anyone on the street, they'll simply go "Who?"
If you show the NX-01 to anyone on the street, they'll say "hmm... looks like some sort of spaceship."
Very few people watched that show, and it didn't make all that much of an impact on those who did. (That's not an indictment of the show, just a statement of relative levels of viewership.)
The problem with most Star Trek fans is that most of us don't really have any perspective about our interest. We either assume that everyone sees what we see, or that NO ONE sees what we see.
The reality is that neither of the above is true. Virtually EVERYONE above the age of 35 knows the original Star Trek intimately. There really wasn't any choice... if you watched TV, back when there were only three or four channels in any market to watch, you DEFINITELY saw every episode of the original series several times.
You probably also know who Ginger and Maryanne are, and wonder why the Professor was trying to get off that island with both of them nearby!
You know the theme to Hogan's Heroes by heart. And so on and so on.
For younger folks... 25 to 35.. they're the transitional group, who saw it but saw a lot more other stuff too.
Those under 25 are mainly familiar with TOS through the fact that everyone else knows it and so it's hard to ignore. Sort of like how someone who can't recall ever having seen "The Wizard of Oz" all the way through still knows all about it (I'm talking about ME here!) just from the fact that it's so much a part of the culture.
EVERYONE knows Shatner as Kirk. EVERYONE knows Nimoy as Spock. And EVERYONE knows the original Enterprise. (Doesn't mean that they all LOVE these things, only that they KNOW them.)
Moving forward through the spin-off series from there, the familiarity drops off meteorically. Remarkably few people outside of Trek fandom know the Defiant, or the Akira, or the Steamrunner, or the NX-01, or the Promethius, or any of those.
They'll recognize the 1701-D, probably, but it won't be as familiar as the original. They'll recognize the 1701(r) but in most cases won't notice that it's different from the original unless they see both side-by-side.
The NCC-1701 is the single most iconic spaceship design in the history of film. Name ANY ship design that people recognize, much less any that they hold in such affection, moreso than they do for the 1701. I challenge ANYONE to seriously make such a claim.
I really don't believe that James Cawley saw the real deal. I know how security and nondisclosure law works. Unless someone WANTED to do this as a publicity stunt, or unless someone was putting their job at risk, there's no way that this would happen.
Those who HAVE seen the real ship designs are under threat of legal action if they discuss specifics. At the very least, anyone who leaks this information who's on the payroll at the SFX house would, if caught, be summarily FIRED. And anyone who HAS seen the works in progress knows that disclosing what they've seen is a violation of the agreement that they signed before their visit. It might not get them prosecuted, but it would SURE AS HELL make them "personae non-grata" at that facility from that point forward.
I've been in ... similar situations (not saying I've seen anything associated with this film, mind you). If, hypothetically, I had seen the real ship, I might be able to talk about it in vague hypotheticals, but I'd know better than to do anything more than that. As would ANYONE who signed in to ILM's roster or PPC's roster and was taken through the offices. They don't just let people walk in off the street without being checked, and without having someone escorting them at all times.
They release information when and how they feel it will best serve the needs of the production. Nobody working there can release this information, on pain of firing, without management approval.
So I'm a bit skeptical of this whole situation.
Now, for James... I can can see that someone might have decided to make an exception for him, just to get his take (out of some form of "fannishness" on the part of the person inviting him). This would be DUMB, since that person would be putting their job on the line over this.
On the other hand, I can see someone giving him some info as part of the ongoing "viral advertising" that I strongly believe is going on right now that we're all playing into.
NOTHING would make the news, and get this film FREE ADVERTISING, like having "the hardcore fans" out PROTESTING the new movie. I'm not saying James is gonna be protesting. I'm saying... I think he MIGHT be the unwitting subject of a piece of misinformation. Or just some free "market research," for that matter.
Remember, they normally don't start doing the SFX work until after, or at most very close to, the end of principle photography. And as a rule, they don't schedule to have all this stuff done long in advance... especially since that would mean that the costs of this movie would be more heavily distributed over multiple tax years. The more that they can bring into a single tax-year, the better off they are financially. So there's a tendency to try to compress schedules to support that.
I don't expect any SFX shot rendering to begin until, at the earliest, late March. I'd more expect SFX work to begin in earnest in June or July. (Those of you in the industry... please feel free to chime in if you think I'm wrong here.)
The Enterprise digital model is almost certainly not complete yet. They MIGHT be playing around with "what if" scenarios, but certainly no final models.
So anyone who thinks that they've seen it... I'd be taking what you saw with a BLOCK of salt.
Re: James Cawley (New Voyages) has seen the Ship (Its Aweful
WWWWIIIIINNNNNNNGGGGGSSSSSSSSS??!?!??!?!?!?!
Oh thank Kahn it was only a dream.
WWWWIIIIINNNNNNNGGGGGSSSSSSSSS??!?!??!?!?!?!
Oh thank Kahn it was only a dream.
Re: James Cawley (New Voyages) has seen the Ship (Its Aweful
The fact that you seem to think that humanity has somehow "changed" between the 1960s and today, and that we're somehow "better" today than we were then, tells me that you're a kid. No one who's lived more than a couple of decades holds that sort of naive perspective.
The only thing that's really changed between then and now is what the current "goofy styles" happen to be. And believe me, today's "goofy styles" are EVERY BIT as dumb and moronic, if not moreso, than anything from the 1950s, 1960s, 1970s, or 1980s.
Yes, we have computers and cell phones, but the changes in our lives beyond those two technologies are almost unnoticable! Humanity hasn't changed significantly in over two thousand years. But every generation to come along things that the prior ones were "lame" and theirs is the one that finally "came up with everything kewl."
He's not insane. Sheesh... he's not the one claiming to know ... CONCLUSIVELY... about future events based upon nothing but his own personal "inner fantasy life."
The fact that you seem to think that humanity has somehow "changed" between the 1960s and today, and that we're somehow "better" today than we were then, tells me that you're a kid. No one who's lived more than a couple of decades holds that sort of naive perspective.
The only thing that's really changed between then and now is what the current "goofy styles" happen to be. And believe me, today's "goofy styles" are EVERY BIT as dumb and moronic, if not moreso, than anything from the 1950s, 1960s, 1970s, or 1980s.
Yes, we have computers and cell phones, but the changes in our lives beyond those two technologies are almost unnoticable! Humanity hasn't changed significantly in over two thousand years. But every generation to come along things that the prior ones were "lame" and theirs is the one that finally "came up with everything kewl."
Re: James Cawley (New Voyages) has seen the Ship (Its Aweful
^ That rings true for the interior sets, but I can still see the CGI work being in pre-production. It is ILM they've contracted after all. They are busy folk and they have several other projects in post right now (just from reading the trades). I would think this would be closer to the time that they'd be starting work on the external pre-viz's.
I can't imagine them needing to build any large scale exterior sets of the Enterprise.
^ That rings true for the interior sets, but I can still see the CGI work being in pre-production. It is ILM they've contracted after all. They are busy folk and they have several other projects in post right now (just from reading the trades). I would think this would be closer to the time that they'd be starting work on the external pre-viz's.
I can't imagine them needing to build any large scale exterior sets of the Enterprise.
Re: James Cawley (New Voyages) has seen the Ship (Its Aweful
Yeah, but unlike all the generations before us... we're actually right this time. Shaky cam is transcendant compared to the still, focused and delicate use of the camera you find in all that garbage people call 'classics.' Incoherent plotting is a leap beyond conventional logic, a concession to the reality of film as being about entertaining visuals and stripping it of such attendant mess as story. And dark, depressing, gritty stuff where everyone mopes is superior to any emotional balance or absurd upbeat attitude that may have been posessed in the past. That's why we do remakes all the time, we're reforging our cultural heritage in this new and superior manner of thought.
Yeah, but unlike all the generations before us... we're actually right this time. Shaky cam is transcendant compared to the still, focused and delicate use of the camera you find in all that garbage people call 'classics.' Incoherent plotting is a leap beyond conventional logic, a concession to the reality of film as being about entertaining visuals and stripping it of such attendant mess as story. And dark, depressing, gritty stuff where everyone mopes is superior to any emotional balance or absurd upbeat attitude that may have been posessed in the past. That's why we do remakes all the time, we're reforging our cultural heritage in this new and superior manner of thought.
Re: James Cawley (New Voyages) has seen the Ship (Its Aweful
You keep making claims of having ABSOLUTE CERTAINTY. So, I'm challenging you on this. PUT UP OR SHUT UP. Tell us what basis you have for making any such statement, or shut the @#$* up.
If you're involved, or have an "in" with the production, say so. Or admit that you're simply pulling it all out of your ass.
Your choice.
"Pre-vis" means "Storyboarding" and has nothing to do with the production-rendering pipeline. Pre-vis, by definition, is with crude blocky models, just to frame up sequences.
and your SOURCE for that is??? You and J.J. hanging out and he's keeping you informed on these matters over coffee and scones?
You keep making claims of having ABSOLUTE CERTAINTY. So, I'm challenging you on this. PUT UP OR SHUT UP. Tell us what basis you have for making any such statement, or shut the @#$* up.
If you're involved, or have an "in" with the production, say so. Or admit that you're simply pulling it all out of your ass.
Your choice.
Re: James Cawley (New Voyages) has seen the Ship (Its Aweful
I would say they no doubt they (the producers) already know what the design of the Enterprise is - I base that on the Fact Roberto Orci made a remark about it being "cool" or words to that effect over at Trekmovie.com.
So I'm quite sure they have an idea already about what she'll be like.
Saying all that I am doubtful its as radical as the premise of this thread would lead a casual person to think.
Sharr
I would say they no doubt they (the producers) already know what the design of the Enterprise is - I base that on the Fact Roberto Orci made a remark about it being "cool" or words to that effect over at Trekmovie.com.
So I'm quite sure they have an idea already about what she'll be like.
Saying all that I am doubtful its as radical as the premise of this thread would lead a casual person to think.
Sharr
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