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James Cameron's "Avatar" (grading and discussion)

Grade "Avatar"

  • Excellent

    Votes: 166 50.0%

  • Above Average

    Votes: 85 25.6%

  • Average

    Votes: 51 15.4%

  • Below Average

    Votes: 11 3.3%

  • Terrible

    Votes: 19 5.7%
  • Total voters
    332
Anyone ever think about the similarity/mirroring of the Avatar technology and what the Great Tree/Eywa can do, in terms of transplanting minds into other bodies? Anyone noticed that the Na'vi knew exactly how humans were in "Na'vi" bodies, and that it didn't bother them so much? Anyone ever think about all the creatures of Pandora and their ability to "plug into" one another? I mean really think about it, not just on a surface level.

They're not anti-technology. They're planet may in fact be the greatest evolution of technology.
 
One of the ways they likely knew who were the Human-Aliens were the number of fingers/toes they had.
 
I know how they knew, but my point is it didn't phase them. Tsu'tey showed, when he attempted to kill Jake's avatar after the military turned off the machine and yelled out something along the lines of "they are spirits in dead bodies," that the Na'vi knew exactly how the Avatars worked. What if you encountered someone with two fingers and toes and they told you they were actually a dolphin, but their technology allowed them to transfer their consciousness into the body that stands before you? It would amaze you if it was light years ahead of anything we knew. But how would you react if it wasn't?
 
T'Baio said:
Anyone ever think about the similarity/mirroring of the Avatar technology and what the Great Tree/Eywa can do, in terms of transplanting minds into other bodies?
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There's even a direct connection; the Na'vi seem fairly certain when presenting Grace to the Tree that she may only materialise in one the two bodies (prefiguring, of course, Jake becoming solely Na'vi at the end of the movie).

...but how the hell did they know that? Have the Na'vi encountered people with two bodies before? Or were they familar enough with the process to immediately recognise this as a probable corrollary? What?

They're not anti-technology. They're planet may in fact be the greatest evolution of technology.
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More like the natural ecology serves the function that technology does - I think Sigourney Weaver calls it a 'global network' at one point. If your natural habitat has organically grown the world wide web, why develop computers?
 
I think I get what you are saying.

And, really, that entire aspect of this movie is something I really liked. The complexity of the jacking-into another being/nature itself thing.
 
Kegg said:
...but how the hell did they know that? Have the Na'vi encountered people with two bodies before? Or were they familar enough with the process to immediately recognise this as a probable corrollary? What?
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I think they assumed it might work because this whole 'upload' thing is second nature for them. They assume all life works this way.
 
Kegg said:
More like the natural ecology serves the function that technology does - I think Sigourney Weaver calls it a 'global network' at one point. If your natural habitat has organically grown the world wide web, why develop computers?
Click to expand...

Exactly, Parker Selfridge thought a tree was a tree no matter how any of the scientists tried to tell him differently. He assumed he knew what trees are and of course we could see he was wrong.

The Na'vi's technology is so much different than the human's that humans couldn't see it as technology at all. That could be exactly why the Na'vi called humans children, because in all reality humans were.

I don't know if any of you are familiar with Marion Zimmer Bradley's "Darkover" books but she used that basic plot all the way through her novels. Humans from the Terrain Empire had great mechanical technology, the Darkoveran Humans had technology based on mental powers and the use of special crystals to amplify those mental powers.

They also lived in castles and rode horses so they were thought to be backward. The empire didn't believe anything differently until they tried to take over Darkover, only to find their weapons didn't do any good if the operator of the weapon thought there were stinging insects crawling all over him.

Technology is a relative thing. I don't know where James Cameron is going to go with this, but I can see the possibility that the Na'vi with their "different" technology are the superior beings.

Brit
 
Having seen the movie, have to vote excellent. Religon That Works is always a dubious trope but it was scienced up a little, which helps suspend disbelief for a couple of hours.

Frankly, the floating mountains, quite apart from inducing vertigo, were hard to swallow even when you see them up there on screen! And, screw the low gravity, a couple of those falls were just plain unbelievable.

As to the story and characterization, frankly I am little skeptical of some of the criticisms about racism.

Sully is there to be A Good Role Model for White People.

The movie blatantly shows Eywa, not Jake, as saving the day. The role white people play there is by being honest, via Grace's memories/personality. Jake's only role there is being too naive about the sophisticated native religion to think that a Christian type prayer for intercessory miracles might even work! A religion that rejects appeals for miracles is rather more sensible than that held by quite a few people in this country, perhaps even the bbs.

I exaggerate a little: Jake's telling Max to stay behind is perhaps his key contribution. That is what permits them to ambush them. Jake does not order obedience but argues rationally for fighting in the flux, where the invaders are partly blind.

The movie does not pretend that it was Jake's eloquence that inspired resistance. It doesn't take personal charisma to preach to the choir. If you thought so, the montage of the non-Jake emissaries getting exactly the same response should have disabused you of the notion.

Implicitly, Jake is singled out because he is so recklessly brave, as when he instantly jumps up in the avatar or charges the hammerhead elephant or leaps over the cliff.
This is also why he is not afraid to tackle the big bird. Which by the way has been done no less than five times before.

Jake is called a moron way too often for the character to just be a patronizing white savior. Jake explicitly says he couldn't do it alone (SHOUT OUT from the writer, people!)
He asks permission to address the crowd at the tree of souls. When the villain asks the hero what it feels like to be a traitor to his race, whether or not you feel that patronizing implications of the story are not sufficiently mitigated by the details of plot and dialogue, that element is also part of the story.
 
Just saw it last night and enjoyed it more than I thought I would...even despite the breathtaking 3D and special effects. The story reminded me of when Britain first came to the New World and began to erode away the Native American's land and resources, this has probably been brought up before. Some Pocahontas, Dances With Wolves mixed with Aliens or Star Wars. Visually this film is spectacular, no denying that, the score is great, the acting was average, I thought Sam Worthington was great along with Zoe Salanda. They had good chemistry together, Signourney Weaver was great as Grace. I will be getting this on DVD when it comes out in a few months. I'm guessing that Fox is going to target a late Spring or Summer DVD release date for this and we better get some special features...don't want a bare bones DVD.
 
Bisz said:
Demiurge said:
It wasn't science fiction, it was fantasy.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure how you can possibly make that claim. Could you elaborate?
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I thought it felt a bit like fantasy in spirit. What with all the flying dragon-like creatures, floating mountains, and the general dreamlike quality of Pandora.

But there was still more than enough science for it to quality as science fiction.
 
I finally saw it last night at a 9:45pm showing because the 8:15pm one was sold out... :wtf: Thank goodness today is a half day at work.

I agree with everyone else about the stunning visuals (which I'd give an 8/5) and paper-thin plot (2/5). So that balances out to a 5/5 for me. :D
 
Admiral_Young said:
Just saw it last night and enjoyed it more than I thought I would...even despite the breathtaking 3D and special effects. The story reminded me of when Britain first came to the New World and began to erode away the Native American's land and resources, this has probably been brought up before. Some Pocahontas, Dances With Wolves mixed with Aliens or Star Wars. Visually this film is spectacular, no denying that, the score is great, the acting was average, I thought Sam Worthington was great along with Zoe Salanda. They had good chemistry together, Signourney Weaver was great as Grace. I will be getting this on DVD when it comes out in a few months. I'm guessing that Fox is going to target a late Spring or Summer DVD release date for this and we better get some special features...don't want a bare bones DVD.
Click to expand...

well.. they did something that If I had a time machine I try to do... band the american indians together and kick the white man off the continent... circa plymouth rock time... and keep them off... every time the white landed here... eliminate him.
 
Story: 7/10
Visuals: 18/10

The story is one well-tread and gets major points for making sense all the way through, having the proper amount of foreshadowing, a clearly defined structure, no :wtf: moments and no "Left field" deus ex machina ending. The possibility that Eywa was sentient was set up very early in the film and not once did the environment the Na'vi inhabit come across as "magical."

the visuals are mind-boggling pretty, and even in 3D nothing jarred me as being "THIS IS 3D, WE CAN HAS PRETTIES!"

The planet itself was stunning and well-thought out, from the taller-everything (low gravity would do that) to the alien biochemistry. If nothing else, this defines the sub-genre of Planetary Romance on screen.

The idea of a sentient, immortal mind in the ecosystem was stunning, with the planet's flora and fauna keeping the whole mess in a homeostatic state.

The Na'vi themselves are very eye-friendly, granted. They also appear very advanced culturally.
They don't bat an eye at the notion of spacemen (though the humans have been there for many years, so the concept isn't alien to them), the avatars themselves don't appear to be an alien construct either. Since the Na'vi communicate with Eywa's consciousness and the minds of their fellow creatures on a regular basis, the idea of one body being an extension of a mind that is elsewhere isn't hard to swallow ("Dreamwalkers" being a colorful, very apt term that suggests the Na'vi know exactly who and what the Avatars are).

The ending didn't felt rushed or cop'ed out, Jake's warning to Eywa was only acted on after Hometree was destroyed, no doubt it took a good while for the information to be processed and another good while for the information to be disseminated. If it had happened right away, that would have been very bad for the plot.

More please.
 
http://www.deadline.com/hollywood/a...de-today-leads-total-500m-final-week-of-2009/

'Avatar' Crossed $800M Worldwide Today; Leads Total $500M Final Week Of 2009; Year Ending +10% With Overall $10.6B

By Nikki Finke Thursday December 31, 2009 @ 12:25pm

Who woulda thunk it? Adding Wednesday's estimated North American gross of $18.4M, Avatar's new domestic cume is now a staggering $268.8M after only 13 days in release. It's been averaging $18M a day. Overall, today's box office should be very good and tomorrow should be huge. Saturday and Sunday will then look normal.

With 20th Century Fox conservatively anticipating this weekend's number in the $50M neighborhood, James Cameron's big budget technopic will be the #2 grossing film for 2009. "And there's a whole lot of gross still to come in 2010. This rocket ship still has loads of fuel in its tanks!" a Fox exec reminds me. Even rival studios tell me they expect Avatar to hit $335M by end of Sunday. "Cameron looks like he'll rank #1-#2 with Titanic," a Fox competitor emailed.

Avatar's international for Wednesday was $36.9M, down only 6% from Tuesday, making the foreign cume now $525.3M. So the worldwide total ending Wednesday was $794.1M. It has now crossed $800M today. Yowza!
Click to expand...
 
'Avatar' will most likely hit $1 billion in worldwide gross by sunday (or monday).

The film is definitely already now profitable and is still making $55 million per day as of right now. Next week we'll know much more about where the film will end up.
 
Hyperspace05 said:
'Avatar' will most likely hit $1 billion in worldwide gross by sunday (or monday).

The film is definitely already now profitable and is still making $55 million per day as of right now. Next week we'll know much more about where the film will end up.
Click to expand...

It's just crazy this movie is going to give Titanic a run for its money. I know Titanic came out like 13 years ago in a different movie climate, but geeze. Cameron? You're made of awesome. Make a movie, studio makes a billion dollars.
 
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