Jake Sisko in a Time to Stand

[Voth commando1]

Okay for whatever unfathomable reason Jake chooses to stay behind when the Dominion takes DS9. Okay be the heroic journalist behind enemy lines or whatever.

Weyoun apparently censors or blocks his articles from reaching Federation territory and has him in trouble because he refers to dominion forces on Bajor(or around maybe?) as occupation troops.

Weyoun states that a lot of perjorative terminology is used when discussing the dominion. Jake cries "Freedom of the Press!"

Listen I've not turned twenty yet and I don't live in the 24th century but my mouth was dropping at our bone dead stupid and naive Jake is.

He can't understand that um the Dominion is an authoritarian power and um doesn't view Free Speech as sacrosanct, apparently thinks the Dominion will let him broadcast what they can rightly call propaganda to a federation audience-a power of which they are at war.

I mean how much dumber could you be? He does understand that Weyoun and the Jem'hadar will have no compunctions about having him killed if he steps out of line right right?

Did his Dad have him be so sheltered so as not to grasp politics and war and stuff? I mean how on earth did he think he could write articles from Dominion run Terok Nor and think it be the same as writing from Federation News Service San Fransisco or something.

I mean help me out here DS9 is supposed to be the smart, cynical, Trek and I can't even imagine this sort of naivety. Really?

Someone please explain how this remotely makes sense that a son of a captain, with experience around a very naughty Nog, could possibly be so naive and stupid?

 

[Tosk]

I mean help me out here DS9 is supposed to be the smart, cynical, Trek and I can't even imagine this sort of naivety. Really?

Not every character on the show has the same level of experience or sophistication.

 

[Paradise City]

I think Jake is like alot of woolly headed Federation types behind-the-lines - he can be staggeringly naive.

 

[somebuddyX]

He's just young, idealistic and inexperienced. I don't think he grasped the magnitude of possible danger he was in or that him staying behind to report in the first place was a bonehead idea but I give a little credit for having that courage, regardless. Maybe he was overcompensating after that experience in "Nor the battle to the strong", maybe not. I just think it's realistic for him not to have thought it through.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

He can't understand that um the Dominion is an authoritarian power and um doesn't view Free Speech as sacrosanct, apparently thinks the Dominion will let him broadcast what they can rightly call propaganda to a federation audience-a power of which they are at war.

Except that Wayoun clearly softpedals the Dominion presence for the sake of the Bajorans and for Odo. It seems to be in his best interests to insist that "this is not an occupation." Jake could well be playing into that impulse, insisting on whatever rights he would have under Bajoran law.

There are historical examples of such types of "resistance" being effective, such as the efforts of Danish officials to keep Danish Jews alive despite being under Nazi occupation. I believe only two hundred died in concentration camps.

 

[kkt]

He is naive. But he grew up in places controlled by Starfleet, with no direct experience with control of the press. Maybe Keiko in her school never taught about that. Maybe there's too much STEM education and not enough history or study of cultures very different from the Federation. He's also a teen and teens do stupid things sometimes.

 

[Voth commando1]

Indeed they do, but you do have a point with STEM Starfleet obviously doesn't teach either history , or civics or galactography.

Teenagers can be stupid and impulsive but their not supposed to be a s brain dead as Jake is in this episode.

 

[Space Coast]

Indeed they do, but you do have a point with STEM Starfleet obviously doesn't teach either history , or civics or galactography.

Teenagers can be stupid and impulsive but their not supposed to be a s brain dead as Jake is in this episode.

You and I browse very different parts of the internet for you to have that opinion.

 

[Voth commando1]

Indeed we probably do.

Speaking of Jake it brings me to another point in the episode-Grandpa Sisko asks whether the war is as bad as the newscasts say and Sisko says it's worse. Then questions his son and I can't believe this asking a question more appropriate for a six year old space is so big can't we all get along?

Are you kidding me? I get he's a chef and not someone versed in politicking or history but are the Federation's citizens that sheltered? That naive? Do they have even the slightest grasp of the universe beyond their borders? Do they even grasp their own recent(often and relatively speaking) history.

If the Federation's citizenry is that naive and soft it probably doesn't deserve to survive.

 

[Space Coast]

Indeed we probably do.

Speaking of Jake it brings me to another point in the episode-Grandpa Sisko asks whether the war is as bad as the newscasts say and Sisko says it's worse. Then questions his son and I can't believe this asking a question more appropriate for a six year old space is so big can't we all get along?

Are you kidding me? I get he's a chef and not someone versed in politicking or history but are the Federation's citizens that sheltered? That naive? Do they have even the slightest grasp of the universe beyond their borders? Do they even grasp their own recent(often and relatively speaking) history.

If the Federation's citizenry is that naive and soft it probably doesn't deserve to survive.

Thank you Gul Dukat your opinion is noted.

But really, people have been using 'can't we all get along' rhetoric for about as long as pacifism has been a thing, which is a long time. Just because new species have been added to humanity's sphere of contact doesn't mean that has changed, or will change.

 

[The Grim Ghost]

Besides Jake being young and rather naive (as others already noted) he wanted to be some sort of writer, either as a journalist or writing stories. He wanted the experience. He certainly got it too! History is full of young people putting themselves in dangerous situations for the adventure. Also young people tend to romanticize war as they haven't really come to terms with their own mortality. Perhaps there was also something going on with him wanting to prove his courage and independence to his father? So yes it was a dumb decision but I think it is in character for Jake.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

Indeed they do, but you do have a point with STEM Starfleet obviously doesn't teach either history , or civics or galactography.

I am calling bullshit on this. Your knowledge of history must be shallow to make the claim you did. There are numerous examples of ordinary people using the fictions of authoritarian regimes to their advantage in order to carve out some small amount of decency or openness. I gave you an example. I have more, many derived from Nazi Germany (the concept of the Rechtstaat worked against the Nazis in many instances), from imperialism (natives could often use the Church as a means of weakening or reversing repressive measures, ... .

If you had watched the episode, you would know that Wayoun wanted people to believe there was no occupation. It was manifest in the notion that the Dominion presence on the station wasn't that bad. The point at which they had to resist had to be discovered by each character. On the other hand, that fiction allowed Odo and Kira some small measure of influence over the affairs of the station,didn't it? So why was it a problem for Jake. If Wayoun claims that it was not an occupation, and Bajor traditionally had freedom of the press, Jake SHOULD INSIST ON IT rather than wither away.

I'm sure you'll find some way of twisting any scene in order to match your preconceptions.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

Jake is an idealistic teenager who had never lived outside his bubble of protection. He grew up being taught the fundamental good in all people and universal love for freedom. Of course he's naive.

 

[Voth commando1]

Jake may like getting the good scoop and but has been shown to like being lazy and comfortable more than adventurous. And I never got the impression watching early DS9 he needed to prove something either to himself or his father.

I mean surely he would grasp the concept of playing ball to preserve his life? Really are the Federation's citizens that childlike? Do they possess any guile or wit? Apparently not.

Jake taught universal good? He's never been taught any earth history? The Borg?

Of course the Dominion doesn't want it stated as occupation because I mean they don't want to expend the minimal resources required to exterminate the Bajorans if they revolted.

Weyoun is in charge of keeping the Bajorans down and the Cardassians in line so yeah, surely Jake would have to grasp that?

Look I'm a fan of the cookies and root beer love ideal the Federation in Trek embodies but even when you ultimately want love joy and peace between all you have to understand what your starting with isn't that.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

I mean surely he would grasp the concept of playing ball to preserve his life? Really are the Federation's citizens that childlike? Do they possess any guile or wit? Apparently not.

Yours is the worst verse of Niemoeller's poem: "When they came for the journalists, I did nothing, because they should have known their place!"

 

[Voth commando1]

Well they should have.

 

[The Grim Ghost]

Jake may like getting the good scoop and but has been shown to like being lazy and comfortable more than adventurous. And I never got the impression watching early DS9 he needed to prove something either to himself or his father.

I mean surely he would grasp the concept of playing ball to preserve his life? Really are the Federation's citizens that childlike? Do they possess any guile or wit? Apparently not.

Jake taught universal good? He's never been taught any earth history? The Borg?

Of course the Dominion doesn't want it stated as occupation because I mean they don't want to expend the minimal resources required to exterminate the Bajorans if they revolted.

Weyoun is in charge of keeping the Bajorans down and the Cardassians in line so yeah, surely Jake would have to grasp that?

Look I'm a fan of the cookies and root beer love ideal the Federation in Trek embodies but even when you ultimately want love joy and peace between all you have to understand what your starting with isn't that.

Was he lazy or just more of an average kid? Up to that point we only had Wesley to compare him to and Wesley was an overachieving ambitious genius. Jake was a better representation of a typical teenager. He made some impulsive decisions that yes can be considered dumb decisions. But teenagers do that sometimes.

So I guess I agree he was naive/foolish/dumb or however you want to put it. But I still feel it wasn't out of character for him.

 

[Voth commando1]

Indeed doesn't mean I have to like it.

Because just about every teenager I know and I was one recently isn't so stupid.

 

[kkt]

It was a momentary last-minute impulse for Jake not to get on his assigned ship off of DS9, if I remember right. Not something he thought a long time about.

 

[Voth commando1]

Then he's just stupid.