Jadzia's Dax Symbiont

[Robert Maxwell]

Yeah, someone who is a few hundred years old and has lived multiple lifetimes as both sexes, I can see how they'd have a "don't sweat the small stuff" kind of attitude. It's a shame that a personality like Jadzia Dax's would be shamed and repressed in some modern societies.

 

[{ Emilia }]

It's a shame that a personality like Jadzia Dax's would be shamed and repressed in some modern societies.

Yeah, that's what I meant earlier. DS9 showed an empowered, independent woman. It's a shame that those who are trying to push their conservative agenda of intolerance are attempting to make her look bad for that.

Sidenote: Who was more awesome? Sikozu or Chiana?

 

[Thestral]

Yeah, that's what I meant earlier. DS9 showed an empowered, independent woman. It's a shame that those who are trying to push their conservative agenda of intolerance are attempting to make her look bad for that.

Sidenote: Who was more awesome? Sikozu or Chiana?

But but but she hurts people! She puts them down! She's not sweet and demure and Ezri!

And nobody's more awesome from that show than Aeryn. Chiana's a good choice though.

 

[RoJoHen]

Sidenote: Who was more awesome? Sikozu or Chiana?

Yes.

 

[Rush Limborg]

I'd be annoyed if fans of the show were trying to force their conservative agenda on me, though.
I'd totally break the 4th wall, look into the camera and complain about their intolerance, bullying and not respecting my way of life.

Yeah, that's what I meant earlier. DS9 showed an empowered, independent woman. It's a shame that those who are trying to push their conservative agenda of intolerance are attempting to make her look bad for that.

{Emilia}, who's talking about "forcing" agendas on you?

You're expressing opinions on what you like to see in Jadzia--Nerys is expressing her opinions on why she doesn't care for those characteristics--and in the event that you missed what she said about Kirk, she clearly stated that it has nothing to do with gender.

Now...if you think that's "forcing an agenda" on you--well, then, you must be REALLY sensitive towards differences of opinion--

But but but she hurts people! She puts them down! She's not sweet and demure and Ezri!

Uh, huh....

You think she was less passive-aggressive than the others because she had a healthy love life?

I think a repressed sex life can probably lead to passive-aggressiveness. All that weird guilt, and the ignored desires.

Tell that to Tiger Woods....

 

[Photon]

I mean, if you spent the last several decades as an old man, wouldn't you turn a little slutty if suddenly you found yourself in the body of a hot, young woman?

I know I would.

I dunno. I might be too busy playing with myself to bother seeking out companionship.

I'd be annoyed if fans of the show were trying to force their conservative agenda on me, though.
I'd totally break the 4th wall, look into the camera and complain about their intolerance, bullying and not respecting my way of life.

Wow, just wow...little sensitive aren't we?

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

Now...if you think that's "forcing an agenda" on you--well, then, you must be REALLY sensitive towards differences of opinion--

Exactly. If the chance of encountering differing opinions not addressed to any particular poster is too alarming, then the simple solution is to either walk away, or use "ignore" if you can't handle it.

Having an opinion and stating it is not forcing it. Being certain of that opinion without attaching some kind of relativistic disclaimer to it is not forcing it, either. I can say that there are certain things that I like or that I believe, and the existence and stating of those opinions is not some sort of existential threat to those who hold different opinions. It isn't some sort of attack.

Forcing it is when you bully or flame someone because they happen to disagree with you. Nowhere did I ever do anything like that, no matter what hyperinflamed rhertoric anyone may wish to misapply.

 

[Thestral]

I'd be annoyed if fans of the show were trying to force their conservative agenda on me, though.
I'd totally break the 4th wall, look into the camera and complain about their intolerance, bullying and not respecting my way of life.

Yeah, that's what I meant earlier. DS9 showed an empowered, independent woman. It's a shame that those who are trying to push their conservative agenda of intolerance are attempting to make her look bad for that.

{Emilia}, who's talking about "forcing" agendas on you?

Look more closely at the two examples you quoted. You'll note that the talk of "...forc[ing] their... agenda on me..." was the first one and in the context of putting herself in the place of a fictional character (specifically Jadzia) - hence breaking the Fourth Wall. Are you familiar with the concept of a hermeneutical lens?

But but but she hurts people! She puts them down! She's not sweet and demure and Ezri!

Uh, huh....

I know, it's ridiculous right? Good thing nobody talks like that around here.

Tell that to Tiger Woods....

No comprende...

I'd be annoyed if fans of the show were trying to force their conservative agenda on me, though.
I'd totally break the 4th wall, look into the camera and complain about their intolerance, bullying and not respecting my way of life.

Wow, just wow...little sensitive aren't we?

Humor, it is a... difficult concept?

 

[RoJoHen]

No hablo...

That's unfortunate for you.

 

[{ Emilia }]

I'd be annoyed if fans of the show were trying to force their conservative agenda on me, though.
I'd totally break the 4th wall, look into the camera and complain about their intolerance, bullying and not respecting my way of life.

Yeah, that's what I meant earlier. DS9 showed an empowered, independent woman. It's a shame that those who are trying to push their conservative agenda of intolerance are attempting to make her look bad for that.

{Emilia}, who's talking about "forcing" agendas on you?

A condescending phrase like "she sleeps around a lot" is definitely lacking respect for any way of life that doesn't agree with Christian celibacy before marriage and it's also downright rude. An insult.

So if I were her and people told me "I sleep around a lot" only because I (Jadzia) made out with 3 guys in 6 years then I'd be offended and would complain about people's conservative agenda.

Making independent, empowered women look bad by portraying them as "sluts" is certainly pushing that right-wing agenda of intolerance.

I wasn't really talking about anybody in this thread specifically by the way but seems you and Nerys felt that the shoe fit.

Now...if you think that's "forcing an agenda" on you--well, then, you must be REALLY sensitive towards differences of opinion--

Saying "You sleep around a lot." isn't stating a different opinion. That choice of words is rude, condescending and insulting. Lacking manners much?

ETA: I respect the fact that some Christians are very particular about the whole sex before marriage stuff. I have no problem with that. Live and let live. I don't ridicule them. They have to live their lives and their way of life isn't better or worse than mine. But I'd appreciate the same tolerance from the other side. Instead of hearing sentences like "sleeping around much" whenever a woman has sex with more than one guy.

 

[doubleohfive]

^Seconded (all of it) for being brilliantly stated and directly to the point, and much more eloquently than I probably would have done myself.

 

[Thestral]

No hablo...

That's unfortunate for you.

Gorram it. Fixed.

 

[Rush Limborg]

A condescending phrase like "she sleeps around a lot" is definitely lacking respect for any way of life that doesn't agree with Christian celibacy before marriage and it's also downright rude. An insult.

So if I were her and people told me "I sleep around a lot" only because I (Jadzia) made out with 3 guys in 6 years then I'd be offended and would complain about people's conservative agenda.

Making independent, empowered women look bad by portraying them as "sluts" is certainly pushing that right-wing agenda of intolerance.

I wasn't really talking about anybody in this thread specifically by the way but seems you and Nerys felt that the shoe fit.

...Saying "You sleep around a lot." isn't stating a different opinion. That choice of words is rude, condescending and insulting. Lacking manners much?

Kirk only "clearly" slept with a bare handful of women over the course of the show. And yet I'd be the first to call him a "womanizer". Were one to say that he "slept around a lot", I could certainly understand where that was coming from.

Again--I think you are REALLY blowing things out of proportion. Just for the record--I don't recall anyone here branding Jadzia a prostitute.

BTW--

I respect the fact that some Christians are very particular about the whole sex before marriage stuff. I have no problem with that. Live and let live. I don't ridicule them.

And yet...

I think a repressed sex life can probably lead to passive-aggressiveness. All that weird guilt, and the ignored desires.

Indeed.

Look more closely at the two examples you quoted. You'll note that the talk of "...forc[ing] their... agenda on me..." was the first one and in the context of putting herself in the place of a fictional character (specifically Jadzia) - hence breaking the Fourth Wall. Are you familiar with the concept of a hermeneutical lens?

I've heard of it. I also don't get how any viewer would be "forcing" an agenda on a fictional character....

No comprende...

Well, allow me to explain: I'd wager no one could accuse Tiger Woods of having a "repressed sex life"....

 

[{ Emilia }]

I respect the fact that some Christians are very particular about the whole sex before marriage stuff. I have no problem with that. Live and let live. I don't ridicule them.

And yet...

I think a repressed sex life can probably lead to passive-aggressiveness. All that weird guilt, and the ignored desires.

Wait, am I getting this right?

Are you saying a "repressed sex life full of guilt and ignored desires" is the SAME as what I called "Christian celibacy before marriage"? What an own-goal.

Because I was talking about 2 completely different things.

A repressed sex-life can lead to issues, I think most psychologists agree there.

Christians consciously deciding not to have sex before marriage is NOT what I would call a "repressed sex life". They do it for a reason and I respect their reasons even if I don't share them. They do it because they believe in it, not because they have psychological issues.

Tolerance, dear Rush. That's the difference between my attitude and people who are forcing their conservative agenda. I accept their way of life. But they insult a liberal way of life.

 

[Thestral]

^ Indeed, exactly!

Kirk only "clearly" slept with a bare handful of women over the course of the show. And yet I'd be the first to call him a "womanizer". Were one to say that he "slept around a lot", I could certainly understand where that was coming from.

Honestly, Kirk's "womanizing" is overplayed too. I refer you to this categorization by our own Christopher.

Look more closely at the two examples you quoted. You'll note that the talk of "...forc[ing] their... agenda on me..." was the first one and in the context of putting herself in the place of a fictional character (specifically Jadzia) - hence breaking the Fourth Wall. Are you familiar with the concept of a hermeneutical lens?

I've heard of it. I also don't get how any viewer would be "forcing" an agenda on a fictional character....

By only interpreting through one particular lens, natch, a viewer can impose her/his personal standards and agenda.

No comprende...

Well, allow me to explain: I'd wager no one could accuse Tiger Woods of having a "repressed sex life"....

Yeah, but what does Tiger have to do with passive-aggressiveness?

 

[doubleohfive]

I respect the fact that some Christians are very particular about the whole sex before marriage stuff. I have no problem with that. Live and let live. I don't ridicule them.

And yet...

I think a repressed sex life can probably lead to passive-aggressiveness. All that weird guilt, and the ignored desires.

Wait, am I getting this right?

Are you saying a "repressed sex life full of guilt and ignored desires" is the SAME as what I called "Christian celibacy before marriage"? What an own-goal.

Because I was talking about 2 completely different things.

A repressed sex-life can lead to issues, I think most psychologists agree there.

Christians consciously deciding not to have sex before marriage is NOT what I would call a "repressed sex life". They do it for a reason and I respect their reasons even if I don't share them. They do it because they believe in it, not because they have psychological issues.

Tolerance, dear Rush. That's the difference between my attitude and people who are forcing their conservative agenda. I accept their way of life. But they insult a liberal way of life.

Epic smackdown is epic.

 

[Rush Limborg]

^Except it's not so epic. To whit--

I respect the fact that some Christians are very particular about the whole sex before marriage stuff. I have no problem with that. Live and let live. I don't ridicule them.

And yet...

I think a repressed sex life can probably lead to passive-aggressiveness. All that weird guilt, and the ignored desires.

Wait, am I getting this right?

Are you saying a "repressed sex life full of guilt and ignored desires" is the SAME as what I called "Christian celibacy before marriage"? What an own-goal.

Because I was talking about 2 completely different things.

A repressed sex-life can lead to issues, I think most psychologists agree there.

Christians consciously deciding not to have sex before marriage is NOT what I would call a "repressed sex life". They do it for a reason and I respect their reasons even if I don't share them. They do it because they believe in it, not because they have psychological issues.

Then let me ask you, {Emilia}...what WOULD you label a "repressed sex life"? Unless, of course...you're discussing a straw man of someone just plain never having sex in their life, period. I hardly think, say, Ezri would qualify on that--unless you missed "What You Leave Behind".

Tolerance, dear Rush. That's the difference between my attitude and people who are forcing their conservative agenda. I accept their way of life. But they insult a liberal way of life.

I said this before--I'll say it again:

No one is talking about "forcing" an agenda on you. That is a straw man, the invoking of which implies immense over-sensitivity--or in common vernacular, a chip on your shoulder the size of Montana.

I will say this again, too:

It is not a matter of gender.

You want to debate me on the issues? Don't ignore the point I'm trying to make. Otherwise, you're just twisting my words. That might impress people on your side--but it doesn't help your case, at all.

Kirk only "clearly" slept with a bare handful of women over the course of the show. And yet I'd be the first to call him a "womanizer". Were one to say that he "slept around a lot", I could certainly understand where that was coming from.

Honestly, Kirk's "womanizing" is overplayed too. I refer you to this categorization by our own Christopher.

Personal interpretation; I respect it. I also understand the other POV. Note his attraction to...the androids in "I, Mudd", for one....

BTW...Chris himself admits in that post that TOS was a '60s television show, and that viewers labeling Kirk as a womanizer were extrapolating based on that. To be blunt...such viewers have good reason to, because of that.

I've heard of it. I also don't get how any viewer would be "forcing" an agenda on a fictional character....

By only interpreting through one particular lens, natch, a viewer can impose her/his personal standards and agenda.

That is expressing a POV, which naturally would color how one interprets a character. How is that "forcing" an agenda? As Spock would say, a viewer expressing a point of view would not change the character.

No comprende...

Well, allow me to explain: I'd wager no one could accuse Tiger Woods of having a "repressed sex life"....

Yeah, but what does Tiger have to do with passive-aggressiveness?

What, indeed? I'd wager it's an example of allowance for leniency regarding a diet leading to a desire for more, which in turn leads to a desire for even more...and before you know it, addiction sets in. I seriously doubt he started out a sex-addict.

The point regarding Tiger is, simply, that allowance of lax standards runs the risk of leading to "active-aggressiveness".


Bringing this into Star Trek...look at Bashir, in the early seasons. Observe his ways of casual romance with women--as Jadzia herself pointed out in "Dax".

Also note his decided lack of emotional maturity, in those days.

Of course...as he matured over the course of the series...note how his relationships became more substantive, and less matters of "casual flings".


On that note--and Nerys has often expressed thoughts to this effect, as well--Jadzia in the early seasons seemed more emotionally mature than in her "Party Girl" phase. Note "Let He Who Is Without Sin..." (yes, I KNOW it's a "bad" episode--it's canon, nonetheless), "You Are Cordially Invited", and the fact that, in "Change Of Heart", it was painfully clear she couldn't take herself the kind of barbs she threw at Worf....

 

[Photon]

^Except it's not so epic. To whit--

And yet...

Wait, am I getting this right?

Are you saying a "repressed sex life full of guilt and ignored desires" is the SAME as what I called "Christian celibacy before marriage"? What an own-goal.

Because I was talking about 2 completely different things.

A repressed sex-life can lead to issues, I think most psychologists agree there.

Christians consciously deciding not to have sex before marriage is NOT what I would call a "repressed sex life". They do it for a reason and I respect their reasons even if I don't share them. They do it because they believe in it, not because they have psychological issues.

Then let me ask you, {Emilia}...what WOULD you label a "repressed sex life"? Unless, of course...you're discussing a straw man of someone just plain never having sex in their life, period. I hardly think, say, Ezri would qualify on that--unless you missed "What You Leave Behind".

I said this before--I'll say it again:

No one is talking about "forcing" an agenda on you. That is a straw man, the invoking of which implies immense over-sensitivity--or in common vernacular, a chip on your shoulder the size of Montana.

I will say this again, too:

It is not a matter of gender.

You want to debate me on the issues? Don't ignore the point I'm trying to make. Otherwise, you're just twisting my words. That might impress people on your side--but it doesn't help your case, at all.



Personal interpretation; I respect it. I also understand the other POV. Note his attraction to...the androids in "I, Mudd", for one....

BTW...Chris himself admits in that post that TOS was a '60s television show, and that viewers labeling Kirk as a womanizer were extrapolating based on that. To be blunt...such viewers have good reason to, because of that.

That is expressing a POV, which naturally would color how one interprets a character. How is that "forcing" an agenda? As Spock would say, a viewer expressing a point of view would not change the character.

Well, allow me to explain: I'd wager no one could accuse Tiger Woods of having a "repressed sex life"....

Yeah, but what does Tiger have to do with passive-aggressiveness?

What, indeed? I'd wager it's an example of allowance for leniency regarding a diet leading to a desire for more, which in turn leads to a desire for even more...and before you know it, addiction sets in. I seriously doubt he started out a sex-addict.

The point regarding Tiger is, simply, that allowance of lax standards runs the risk of leading to "active-aggressiveness".


Bringing this into Star Trek...look at Bashir, in the early seasons. Observe his ways of casual romance with women--as Jadzia herself pointed out in "Dax".

Also note his decided lack of emotional maturity, in those days.

Of course...as he matured over the course of the series...note how his relationships became more substantive, and less matters of "casual flings".


On that note--and Nerys has often expressed thoughts to this effect, as well--Jadzia in the early seasons seemed more emotionally mature than in her "Party Girl" phase. Note "Let He Who Is Without Sin..." (yes, I KNOW it's a "bad" episode--it's canon, nonetheless), "You Are Cordially Invited", and the fact that, in "Change Of Heart", it was painfully clear she couldn't take herself the kind of barbs she threw at Worf....

Shhhhh Rush, don't mention MONTANA. Ya know that pull-yourself-up-by-the-bootstrap-state. You prolly should have said a nice left-leaning state like: Cali, Michigan, Cuba, or Venezuela....don't want to farther push those conservative values on anyone.....also, you'd be giving out perfect examples of some of the best Keynesian macroeconomics in the world....live long and prosper Comrade Rush-kie

 

[Rush Limborg]

Ah...I kinda picked Montana, because it's...big. And it flows better than "A chip on your shoulder the size of Texas" or "Alaska".

Still, I'll keep that kinda thing in mind.

 

[SPCTRE]

[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XkJ5CKcpJwo[/yt]

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