J J Abrams New Star Trek and VOY (spoilers)

[Lynx]

Lynx...they said it's an alternate timeline for this movie and its subsequent works (books and presumably movies). That doesn't mean every Trek book will now follow this timeline. Those books in the TNG, VOY, DS9 and ENT series will go along the same as they are now...

Spoiler: example of something from XI

(including a still existant Vulcan and so on)

...so long as people continue to buy them. But those that are intended to be sequels to this movie and this crew will follow this timeline.

For different reasons which have already been brought up on this forum, I'm already somewhat displeased with PocketBooks and their ongoing character destruction so I see no sanctuary there.

The current directions of the movies and the current direction of the books are actually two golden nails in the coffin for my previous affection and love for Star Trek.

"I'd sail across the ocean
I'd walk a hundred miles
If I could make it to the end
Oh just to see a smile

You see it in their faces
The sadness in their tears
The desperation and the anger
Madness and the fear

No hope, no life, just pain and fear
No food, no love, just greed is here"

"Childhood's End"
Iron Maiden

(The title of the song sums it up pretty well, I guess)

 

[JustKate]

I'm sure they're going to revisit the 24th century in books.

As for the films? Well, your loss, quite honestly. I love the new cast. They made me laugh.

And they made me cry...

I'm just grateful that there *will* be more Trek on screen.

Thank you, JJ Abrams.

I do love the new cast, I must say. I don't love the new movie though I do like it a lot, but the cast is great. And it was a genuine thrill to see it all on a big screen again. Honestly, I almost got a lump in my throat when I saw the NCC-1701 up there for the first time!

 

[teya]

The current directions of the movies and the current direction of the books are actually two golden nails in the coffin for my previous affection and love for Star Trek.

You've said that before many times.

Thing is, Lynx, under the formula you love so well, that you never want changed at all, people were getting bored. People weren't going to the films. TV ratings were dismal. They can't keep catering to an audience that wants things to stay the same.

I think that both the reviews (better than any prior Trek film) and the box office proves that it was time for a reboot.

 

[exodus]

Since it was made clear from the *very first scene* that this was going to be a history-changing villain, and since they didn't push the reset button, and since both Spocks said on more than one occasion that this is now an alternate timeline, I think it's safe to say...

It's an alternate timeline.

It's just the only one you're going to see onscreen from here on out.

Well, that spares me from having to waste my time on upcoming movies and books.

I'm sure they're going to revisit the 24th century in books.

As for the films? Well, your loss, quite honestly. I love the new cast. They made me laugh.

And they made me cry...

I'm just grateful that there *will* be more Trek on screen.

Thank you, JJ Abrams.

Agreed.

The fact that this film is doing well benefits all of us as fans because it allows Trek an avenue to continue.

 

[JustKate]

For different reasons which have already been brought up on this forum, I'm already somewhat displeased with PocketBooks and their ongoing character destruction so I see no sanctuary there.

The current directions of the movies and the current direction of the books are actually two golden nails in the coffin for my previous affection and love for Star Trek.

Yes, Lynx, I know - if you recall, I participated in some of those discussions in the Trek Lit forum. But you must remember - well, OK, not "must," but I think it would be a good idea - that these things go in cycles. Just because TPTB are shaking up the franchise now doesn't mean they are going to keep shaking it up indefinitely. So there will be times when the franchise is more to your liking and times when it will be less to your liking. Same thing for me. Same thing for every individual fan.

But yeah, if you only want Trek a certain specific way, and you've made it quite clear that you do, you're probably right that your safest bet is fanfic. I just wanted you to know that if you happened to be stuck in an airport or somewhere in 2010 with nothing to read but a new TNG novel, you don't have to worry that...

Spoiler: Trek XI

Vulcan

...will have suddenly vanished from that particular timeline just because of this year's movie.

 

[Lynx]

I'm sure they're going to revisit the 24th century in books.

As for the films? Well, your loss, quite honestly. I love the new cast. They made me laugh.

And they made me cry...

I'm just grateful that there *will* be more Trek on screen.

Thank you, JJ Abrams.

I do love the new cast, I must say. I don't love the new movie though I do like it a lot, but the cast is great. And it was a genuine thrill to see it all on a big screen again. Honestly, I almost got a lump in my throat when I saw the NCC-1701 up there for the first time!

The cast was actually OK. They did a decent job in portraying the good, old characters and the movie was quite OK if you just watch it for action and entertainment. It's just how they screw up things unnecessarily.

You've said that before many times.

Thing is, Lynx, under the formula you love so well, that you never want changed at all, people were getting bored. People weren't going to the films. TV ratings were dismal. They can't keep catering to an audience that wants things to stay the same.

I think that both the reviews (better than any prior Trek film) and the box office proves that it was time for a reboot.

Yes, I've said it many times before.

Yes, I've been close to turn my back on Star Trek many times but my love and affection for it has prevented me from doing it.

And then something new happens which annoys the s**t out of me. It was a very long time since I had a positive experience when it comes to Star Trek.

I can agree that it was time for a reboot. But was it necessary to screw up a lot of things the way they did? Wasn't it enough with re-making TOS (i mean, no one can do TOS as good as Shatner and the others) instead of coming up with something new and fresh, just like they once did with TNG? Was it necessary to screw up everything?

Besides that, I'm a bit surprised that so many who complains about "ruining the premise of a character" or "violation of canon" when I suggest a prolonged life-span for Kes or state that the creature in "Fury" wasn't the real Kes so unconditionally accept the destruction of planets and screwing up of characters and events.

People are strange.

So maybe I should publish my stories, suggestions and ideas under the name J.J. Abrams instead of Lynx?

I also wonder if people getting bored by "the formula I have loved so well" (and still does) is the result of years of brainwashing the overall audience with dumba** pointless action instead of telling good stories.

 

[teya]

Besides that, I'm a bit surprised that so many who complains about "ruining the premise of a character" or "violation of canon" when I suggest a prolonged life-span for Kes or state that the creature in "Fury" wasn't the real Kes so unconditionally accept the destruction of planets and screwing up of characters and events.

People are strange.

Actually the thing I love most about the reboot is...

Spoiler: Trek XI

The destruction of Vulcan gives Vulcans something to grieve. It makes their characters--and especially Spock's--more interesting. I cried when Spock said, "I am now a member of an endangered species."

And that action opens things up in so many ways. Now Spock won't have his mother's support--but he will have Sarek's and years earlier than he did in the other timeline.

My argument for leaving Kes's lifespan as it was was that properly used, it would have made her more interesting and opened up the stories that could be told.

I am consistent, even if you don't see it that way.

 

[exodus]

Besides that, I'm a bit surprised that so many who complains about "ruining the premise of a character" or "violation of canon" when I suggest a prolonged life-span for Kes or state that the creature in "Fury" wasn't the real Kes so unconditionally accept the destruction of planets and screwing up of characters and events.

People are strange.

Actually the thing I love most about the reboot is...

Spoiler: Trek XI

The destruction of Vulcan gives Vulcans something to grieve. It makes their characters--and especially Spock's--more interesting. I cried when Spock said, "I am now a member of an endangered species."

And that action opens things up in so many ways. Now Spock won't have his mother's support--but he will have Sarek's and years earlier than he did in the other timeline.

My argument for leaving Kes's lifespan as it was was that properly used, it would have made her more interesting and opened up the stories that could be told.

I am consistent, even if you don't see it that way.

True.

Heck, in the alternate timeline for all we know the Caretaker never came and Ocampians live forever and above ground.

I don't view this new Trek as a bad thing. I see it as a way to correct all the errors & inconsistances in the timeline we know.

 

[Lynx]

Well, you do know that I hate such scenarios and always will.

But the effect you wanted and appreciated

Spoiler: in the movie

could have been made without violating established Star Trek history by wiping out one of Star trek's most importand planets, a planet which can be seen in several episodes and movies in which the events takes place after the events in the new movie. It could have been some relatives to Spock being murdered or anything, except this rubbish.

As for the Kes case, better stories could have been told by using my suggestions.

 

[teya]

can be seen in several episodes and movies in which the events takes place after the events in the new movie.

IT'S AN ALTERNATIVE TIMELINE!!!!!!!!!!!!

As for your suggestion--not enough.

I think it comes down to, once again, that you avoid like the plague anything to do with the aftermath of death.

On the other hand, I think that's where people get interesting.

 

[Lynx]

can be seen in several episodes and movies in which the events takes place after the events in the new movie.

IT'S AN ALTERNATIVE TIMELINE!!!!!!!!!!!!

As for your suggestion--not enough.

I think it comes down to, once again, that you avoid like the plague anything to do with the aftermath of death.

On the other hand, I think that's where people get interesting.

Well, I have had my fair share of deaths and tragedies among families and friends, thank you.

So I might be forgiven if I might want to pass the time with something hopeful and positive instead.

But it was a long time since something hopeful and positive happened in Star Trek.

As for my suggestions, they are more than good. They are positive and constructive.

 

[teya]

can be seen in several episodes and movies in which the events takes place after the events in the new movie.

IT'S AN ALTERNATIVE TIMELINE!!!!!!!!!!!!

As for your suggestion--not enough.

I think it comes down to, once again, that you avoid like the plague anything to do with the aftermath of death.

On the other hand, I think that's where people get interesting.

Well, I have had my fair share of deaths and tragedies among families and friends, thank you.

Well, as you know, so have I.

And I still think that it's the bad things that happen to people and how they cope with them that make them interesing.

But it was a long time since something hopeful and positive happened in Star Trek.

Funny, I saw hopeful and positive come out of grief in the new movie:

Spoiler: Trek XI

Sarek admitted to Spock that he loved Amanda. About time.

And Sarek and Spock come to understanding far sooner than they did in Spock Prime's timeline.

As for my suggestions, they are more than good. They are positive and constructive.

I'm sorry, Lynx, but I find your ideas and your fanfic boring.

Just not my thing, you know?

 

[Lynx]

IT'S AN ALTERNATIVE TIMELINE!!!!!!!!!!!!

As for your suggestion--not enough.

I think it comes down to, once again, that you avoid like the plague anything to do with the aftermath of death.

On the other hand, I think that's where people get interesting.

Well, I have had my fair share of deaths and tragedies among families and friends, thank you.

Well, as you know, so have I.

And I still think that it's the bad things that happen to people and how they cope with them that make them interesing.

But it was a long time since something hopeful and positive happened in Star Trek.

Funny, I saw hopeful and positive come out of grief in the new movie:

Spoiler: Trek XI

Sarek admitted to Spock that he loved Amanda. About time.

And Sarek and Spock come to understanding far sooner than they did in Spock Prime's timeline.

As for my suggestions, they are more than good. They are positive and constructive.

I'm sorry, Lynx, but I find your ideas and your fanfic boring.

Just not my thing, you know?

Well, I guess that you have another view of such things than I have.

As for stories and suggestions, I'm not that happy with your C/7 scenario either. Just not my thing.

 

[iguana_tonante]

can be seen in several episodes and movies in which the events takes place after the events in the new movie.

IT'S AN ALTERNATIVE TIMELINE!!!!!!!!!!!!

As for your suggestion--not enough.

I think it comes down to, once again, that you avoid like the plague anything to do with the aftermath of death.

On the other hand, I think that's where people get interesting.

Well, I have had my fair share of deaths and tragedies among families and friends, thank you.

So I might be forgiven if I might want to pass the time with something hopeful and positive instead.

But it was a long time since something hopeful and positive happened in Star Trek.

As for my suggestions, they are more than good. They are positive and constructive.

Sure you can play your own fiddle. Geez.

You don' t like the direction things are going. We got it. I can even agree with you on some points: sure as hell I recoiled at the the big spoiler in the new movie. I was shaken. For it was something I loved very much, and for a long time. But I can see the storytelling reasons for that.

You don't like it. Fair enough. But all this drama! is getting a bit ridiculous.

 

[Lynx]

For different reasons which have already been brought up on this forum, I'm already somewhat displeased with PocketBooks and their ongoing character destruction so I see no sanctuary there.

The current directions of the movies and the current direction of the books are actually two golden nails in the coffin for my previous affection and love for Star Trek.

Yes, Lynx, I know - if you recall, I participated in some of those discussions in the Trek Lit forum. But you must remember - well, OK, not "must," but I think it would be a good idea - that these things go in cycles. Just because TPTB are shaking up the franchise now doesn't mean they are going to keep shaking it up indefinitely. So there will be times when the franchise is more to your liking and times when it will be less to your liking. Same thing for me. Same thing for every individual fan.

But yeah, if you only want Trek a certain specific way, and you've made it quite clear that you do, you're probably right that your safest bet is fanfic. I just wanted you to know that if you happened to be stuck in an airport or somewhere in 2010 with nothing to read but a new TNG novel, you don't have to worry that...

Spoiler: Trek XI

Vulcan

...will have suddenly vanished from that particular timeline just because of this year's movie.

Well, the times when the franchise will be more to my liking will probably occur in some distant furture when I've been dead and gone for a long time.

It was a long time since Star Trek was fun. What have we had in the recent 10 years:

1. Kes kicked out in "The Gift"

2. Kes ruined and destroyed in "Fury"

3. The decision to make a retro series (ENT) instead of continuing in th 24th century.

4. Endgame and all events in that episode!

5. "Enterprise" being even more boring and screwing up established Trek history that I suspected in my worst nightmares.

6. Nemesis!

7. The Voyager relaunch turning out to be a dissapointment. After all, I did have some expectations on the relaunch.

8. The "empty years" without any movies or series.

9. the annihilation and destruction of Janeway in the books which will affect upcoming Star Trek books.

10. Te screw-ups in the new movie which will also affect upcoming movies, series and books.

And this is supposed to be one of my favorite interests which should give me some fun and entertainment? Oh, what a bl***y joke!

Is it simply too much to wish for something positive for once, something which would make Star Trek fun to watch, read about and "be a part of" in some way?

 

[JustKate]

I have to disagree with your statement that "It's been a long time since Star Trek was fun." It's still fun for me (despite that big spoiler in the movie, which saddens me greatly), but I'm sorry it's not fun for you. I don't know what else to say. You seem to want a lot more control of your fiction than you are likely to get.

Might I suggest something? I really don't mean this as insulting, so I hope you won't think of it that way. Have you thought about children's literature? I'm serious. When I'm feeling down and want something optimistic to read, that's one of the places I turn to. There is some wonderful children's literature out there that I am not in the least ashamed to read even though I am oh, so far from childhood. It's not sure-fire, because sometimes sad things happen there, too, but not as often and not as devastatingly. Good luck.

 

[teya]

Well, I have had my fair share of deaths and tragedies among families and friends, thank you.

Well, as you know, so have I.

And I still think that it's the bad things that happen to people and how they cope with them that make them interesing.



Funny, I saw hopeful and positive come out of grief in the new movie:

Spoiler: Trek XI

Sarek admitted to Spock that he loved Amanda. About time.

And Sarek and Spock come to understanding far sooner than they did in Spock Prime's timeline.

As for my suggestions, they are more than good. They are positive and constructive.

I'm sorry, Lynx, but I find your ideas and your fanfic boring.

Just not my thing, you know?

Well, I guess that you have another view of such things than I have.

Yeesh. I thought that was pretty obvious.

As for stories and suggestions, I'm not that happy with your C/7 scenario either. Just not my thing.

I also thought that was obvious. However I fail to see what that has to do with the discussion at hand.

Was it just a way to get a dig in?

 

[Adm_Hawthorne]

Did anyone else notice what a total steal of the plot of "Year of Hell" the new Trek movie is? And isnt it amazing how much better it works in YOH?

I did notice the similarities between "Year of Hell" and the new TREK movie. And as much as I had enjoyed the latter, I do believe that "Year of Hell" was better written.

I don't feel YofH was better written. In fact, I felt there were many times in the two-parter that the writers actually just took a bulldozer and ran through the plot creating holes to make things work as they saw fit. I mean, why was the entire crew off of Voyager before Janeway decided to ram it?

Chakotay is sympathetic to crazy captain guy? Wait... now he's not... but he is, kind of? What the heck is going on there with that?

Where are the time police?

With the Trek movie, everything was rather well lined up. Yes, there was a list of very odd coincidences, but everything was fairly well explained, the dialogue was very good, and the character quirks were rather well persevered.

As I said earlier, Trek has done the time travel thing many times over in many different shows and movies. I think this one is probably the best I've seen so far. Again, if anything, Voyager ripped this from the TOS movies.

 

[brcarthey]

Spoiler: consequence of outcome in trek IX

even in this AU there's still a chance that all our favorite characters from the respective modern series can still exist with the exception of one. with vulcan being destroyed now, tuvok most likely will not be able to exist in this universe.

damn! a brutha can't even get some love on vulcan!

 

[Lynx]

Well, as you know, so have I.

And I still think that it's the bad things that happen to people and how they cope with them that make them interesing.



Funny, I saw hopeful and positive come out of grief in the new movie:

Spoiler: Trek XI

Sarek admitted to Spock that he loved Amanda. About time.

And Sarek and Spock come to understanding far sooner than they did in Spock Prime's timeline.

I'm sorry, Lynx, but I find your ideas and your fanfic boring.

Just not my thing, you know?

Well, I guess that you have another view of such things than I have.

Yeesh. I thought that was pretty obvious.

As for stories and suggestions, I'm not that happy with your C/7 scenario either. Just not my thing.

I also thought that was obvious. However I fail to see what that has to do with the discussion at hand.

Was it just a way to get a dig in?

Nah, more a stating of facts since we both seem to be in a very honest and straightforward mode right now.

However, I have to give you the credit of being a very good writer.