J.J. Abrams Almost Human

[Guy Gardener]

Either...

1. Murdering the prisoner will never be talked about again.

2. Kennix is trying to insert himself into a criminal empire operating parallel to his own.

3. Kennix is trying to create a criminal empire operating parallel to his own.

4. Kennix is a psychopath, Karl has only signed on for one season, and the season two lead is already waiting in the wings.

5. It's a trick. No one was murdered.

6. Kennix is an android, he is trying to replace humanity with AI.

7. A control program has been integrated into Kennix's brain forcing him to be the slave pawn to some greater power, the big bad who we have not met yet.

8. Kennix belongs to something similar to Section 31. Not necessarily evil, but certainly above the law, watching the watchers making sure that good men think that they are holding the world on their shoulders virtuously. Oversight, checks and balances, star chamber justice. Y'know?

9. Kennix belongs to a proto plan that will only go into full force after world war III where Judges and not police patrol the streets to dispensing immediate justice to the city.

10. It's exactly what it seemed. They killed his friend and this was a perfectly proportionate reaction.

 

[Photoman15]

DING! DING! DING! Number 10! DING!

 

[sojourner]

Yep, guessing 1 and 10, though 9 would really rock.

 

[Christopher]

Just watched. You're talking about the wounded cop-killing police captain? Who after being wounded brags that he's a captain and will get off and then insults the dead cop/Kennex's friend? Yeah, he deserved to live.

Who had been neutralized as a threat and presented no further physical danger to Kennex or anyone else. Thus there was absolutely no ethical justification for employing deadly force against him. His fate was for a court of law to decide. Urban isn't playing Judge Dredd here.

Or maybe he is, kind of. It's increasingly clear to me that this show is trying to be in the vein of violent cop movies like the Dirty Harry or Lethal Weapon franchises, and that's just not a genre I enjoy.

 

[Photoman15]

I am the Bishop.
The Police have been after me for at least 10 years.
I am a police captain.
I will get off.
I killed your friend and framed him
I will come after you next when I am free.
I will.....

BANG!

 

[stj]

Just watched. You're talking about the wounded cop-killing police captain? Who after being wounded brags that he's a captain and will get off and then insults the dead cop/Kennex's friend? Yeah, he deserved to live.

Bragging you'll get off doesn't make it so. Insulting a friend is really terrible, it'll hurt his feelings. These are not crimes worthy of death, so, yes, the guy deserved to live.

As for the notion that murdering the guy is proportionate response, no, it's not. Policemen murdering people because they feel like it is wrong. It would be nice if all you people who think it's a charming fantasy to imagine a cop who gets to administer justice without all that boring trial stuff and that hateful crap about rights get to meet some Kennex's for real.

 

[od0_ital]

Watched all four episodes of the series, so far, this mornin' thanks to HuluPlus.

I kinda like it. I think the third episode was the best of the four, with the hostage crisis actin' as a cover up to the robbery.

I'll keep watchin', unless it just starts to get awful.

 

[Ganja Tea]

As for the notion that murdering the guy is proportionate response, no, it's not. Policemen murdering people because they feel like it is wrong. It would be nice if all you people who think it's a charming fantasy to imagine a cop who gets to administer justice without all that boring trial stuff and that hateful crap about rights get to meet some Kennex's for real.

You got to love this. Here is a guy so upset that some people have no problem with a cop killing a dirtbag on a scifi show that he wishes it upon on us for real.

I mean if we're assholes for being okay with a tv cop killing a bad guy what are you for hoping for it for real?

 

[Christopher]

I am the Bishop.
The Police have been after me for at least 10 years.
I am a police captain.
I will get off.
I killed your friend and framed him
I will come after you next when I am free.
I will.....

BANG!

That's the logic of the '80s macho-fantasy violent cop movies this series seeks to emulate, but like those movies, it doesn't hold up if you apply any degree of thought to it. They had enough evidence to make a case against him. They had the evidence that had led them to realize he was a suspect in the first place. They had the eyewitness testimony of Rudy that he was the Bishop, which was the whole damn reason he was sent undercover in the first place. And they had the eyewitness testimony of Kennex and Dorian that he'd actively tried to kill them. And once they knew he was the Bishop, surely any competent investigation could have turned up more proof.

But this is a testosterone-drenched action story where torturing prisoners is supposedly heroic, and heaven forbid that the hero actually trust in the justice system he swore an oath to serve, because that would be insufficiently manly and roguish. No, Kennex is a Tough Cop Who Doesn't Play By The Rules. Although the problem is that this show has given us no reason to believe that the system doesn't work or that playing by the rules wouldn't get the job done.

I just saw a comment on another board comparing this to the last episode of Person of Interest, where the reformed bad cop Fusco refused to kill the man who'd murdered his partner, because she'd taught him there was a better way and he didn't want to destroy her legacy. In the past, when he'd been corrupt, he had killed out of revenge just as Kennex did here; but now he was a clean cop and he recognized how wrong that would be. Here, though, the corrupt cop is the one we're supposed to root for. And that I will not do.

 

[stj]

As for the notion that murdering the guy is proportionate response, no, it's not. Policemen murdering people because they feel like it is wrong. It would be nice if all you people who think it's a charming fantasy to imagine a cop who gets to administer justice without all that boring trial stuff and that hateful crap about rights get to meet some Kennex's for real.

You got to love this. Here is a guy so upset that some people have no problem with a cop killing a dirtbag on a scifi show that he wishes it upon on us for real.

I mean if we're assholes for being okay with a tv cop killing a bad guy what are you for hoping for it for real?

Someone making fun of your folly. According to you, cops are just killing dirtbags. You thinking I'm really wishing you meet a cop who'll kill you just tells us one thing: You identify with the dirtbags.

The truth is that you should. It's as unlikely that any of us might be facing a cop with a gun, but it's far more likely than this particular vision of the future coming true. So we should identify on one level even with the cop, just as we in real life should be concerned with the rights of people accused of crimes.

When I taunt you with the prospect of not being the killer, of course you realize that it's all about the vicarious fun of killing people You Just Don't Like. And don't much care for the observation you might be on the receiving end. If you really thought for a moment that Kennex was in any way right, you'd be honored to meet a Kennex, not threatened.

Of course the script has the guy being insolent, as a kind of figleaf for indulging some fantasy meanness. Personally I think there's enough meanness in the world we don't need to cultivate a taste for it. Maybe it's all a matter of taste, but there's good taste, and bad.

PS I saying what I think, but I suppose in the public disclosure, I'll reveal a cousin of man was shot by cops (through his front door) as they pursued another man who fled into his apartment complex. But you'll be glad to know they didn't waste any time on stinking bullshit like announcing they were cops. No reason he should go to his own door with a gun at three o'clock in the morning, just because someone was pounding it.

 

[Ganja Tea]

As for the notion that murdering the guy is proportionate response, no, it's not. Policemen murdering people because they feel like it is wrong. It would be nice if all you people who think it's a charming fantasy to imagine a cop who gets to administer justice without all that boring trial stuff and that hateful crap about rights get to meet some Kennex's for real.

You got to love this. Here is a guy so upset that some people have no problem with a cop killing a dirtbag on a scifi show that he wishes it upon on us for real.

I mean if we're assholes for being okay with a tv cop killing a bad guy what are you for hoping for it for real?

Someone making fun of your folly.

Says the guy who doesn't understand it's a tv show. For example, I like the Fast and Furious movies, doesn't mean I want assholes racing down the highway at 100 plus miles per hour in real life.

According to you, cops are just killing dirtbags. You thinking I'm really wishing you meet a cop who'll kill you just tells us one thing: You identify with the dirtbags.

Everyone understood your statement for what it was. You wishing we encounter a dirty cop willing to play loose with people's civil liberties. You certainly didn't mean we should run into him so we can buy him a beer(which he'd drink on duty cause he's a dirty cop). But go ahead and pretend as if that wasn't what you meant, you coward.

The truth is that you should. It's as unlikely that any of us might be facing a cop with a gun, but it's far more likely than this particular vision of the future coming true. So we should identify on one level even with the cop, just as we in real life should be concerned with the rights of people accused of crimes.

Again you show the inability to separate fantasy from reality.

When I taunt you with the prospect of not being the killer, of course you realize that it's all about the vicarious fun of killing people You Just Don't Like. And don't much care for the observation you might be on the receiving end. If you really thought for a moment that Kennex was in any way right, you'd be honored to meet a Kennex, not threatened.

Who's threatened? I made an observation that it was funny you admonishing us for not caring a character on a tv show was killed by wishing the same on real life people. You're the one threatened by me pointing that out, hence your multi paragraph response to a couple of lines.

Of course the script has the guy being insolent, as a kind of figleaf for indulging some fantasy meanness. Personally I think there's enough meanness in the world we don't need to cultivate a taste for it. Maybe it's all a matter of taste, but there's good taste, and bad.

And of course that's totally objective.

PS I saying what I think, but I suppose in the public disclosure, I'll reveal a cousin of man was shot by cops (through his front door) as they pursued another man who fled into his apartment complex. But you'll be glad to know they didn't waste any time on stinking bullshit like announcing they were cops. No reason he should go to his own door with a gun at three o'clock in the morning, just because someone was pounding it.

And I've known quite a few people who were shot and killed as well, don't take your real life shit out here on us folk enjoying a tv show.

 

[Jax]

Pity show ratings means its dead (1.7/5) demo with 5.79 million, its a nice witty charming esq cop buddy show. Not a good time to be a show on FOX.

Cable J.J, Cable.

 

[Borgminister]

Show's a bit too juvenile for my tastes, I'm finding, as much as I want to really like it. And yeah, to have the execution take, you would have had to establish that a corrupt legal system is in place and that Captain Bishop might well have walked somehow. But since this show is so thin on development and thick on buddy-buddy banter and 6th grade humor, we aren't getting that, unfortunately. If we were getting the former, I could chuckle at the latter.

Guess I'll watch until the axe falls, though. Maybe.

 

[Blip]

Pfft. If he'd done that to one of my close friends and I had the opportunity to put a bullet in him, I'd take it - so sue me. Go pontificate about the ethics to someone who cares.

I'm genuinely enjoying this show. It's exactly what it sets out to be, a buddy cop show set slightly in the future and despite the setting, it has some mildly funny moments. Certainly beats watching most of the junk on TV... More "Celebrity I'm an Ice Dancing Fashion Chef Get Me Out of This Treehouse Full of Cameras", anyone?

 

[Guy Gardener]

As for the notion that murdering the guy is proportionate response, no, it's not. Policemen murdering people because they feel like it is wrong. It would be nice if all you people who think it's a charming fantasy to imagine a cop who gets to administer justice without all that boring trial stuff and that hateful crap about rights get to meet some Kennex's for real.

It's a perfectly proportionate response for an amoral hypocrite.

Also, if it wasn't a perfectly normal and sane response, which most ordinary people would consider and then follow through with if they thought that they could get away with it, we would not need jail and/or execution as a deterrent for murder or the police as service to continually hunt all existing murderers as well as all new murderers as they murder.

There are two schools of thought.

1. We do now murder wantonly because it is wrong.

2. We do not murder wantonly because we will be raped in prison.

So really, if you're sure you're going to get away with it and it seems like a good idea, and morality is ####ing stupid, of course murder is a tool you can use when it seems fitting.

You know who I thought was a weird (fictional) murderer?

Greg House.

Euthanasia is not murder.

Meh.

 

[stj]

Trying to step back, we still see the usual arguments being made.

Can't tell fantasy from reality... all dramas carry messages and only fools or liars deny it. They don't compel the audiences to act on those messages and condemning them as contributory to any acts is equally foolish. But no one has done this, except confusing a gibe with a real wish. The message carried by a drama, even it's acceptance of the status quo, is always a legitimate target of criticism.

That's not totally objective... doesn't have to be. It is convenient to pretend that all opinions are equal but they aren't. Some of the heat in the last exchange developed from posts trying to justify the murder when the drama itself couldn't. Accepting that the guy would really say something like that or that it would really be true requires a completely uncritical, nearly unconscious, viewing. Incompetents like to say taste can't be disputed, but the sorry truth is that this sort of thing isn't like saying you prefer salt to sugar, it's like saying baking soda is sweet, then pretending it's all subjective.

It's not real... this is closely related to the fantasy/reality dichotomy, but is aimed more at the idea that since it's all fictional, it doesn't matter: It has nothing to do with reality. Therefore, enjoying watching a Kennex murder a loudmouth doesn't suggest I really wish I could blow away loudmouths. The problem of course there isn't any reason to care about fiction unless we relate it to us in some fashion. Our feelings about the real world have everything to do with what we enjoy in fictional entertainment. We know perfectly well that it's not real, and sometimes we even consciously enjoy stuff precisely because we know it's not real.

Everybody actually knows this, and that's why a simple announcement that the ending was unconscionable and the show's over was instantly answered with a rude remark. Nonetheless, people will persist in watching TV and movie dramas with their feelings engaged and they will persist in relating them to the real world, never for a moment forgetting it's all fictional. This is the natural thing to do. It takes a pretty diminished capacity to leach drama of all significance. If you really don't invest anything emotional, then don't give a shit when someone criticizes it.

 

[JD]

I think they are definitely going for a harsher future here, so I'm not to bothered by the torture and him killing the one bad guy. My main issue right now is that the last couple episodes were stories that you could tell on any old cop show. I thought this was going to be dealing more with stuff specifically related to the futuristic technologies, like the guys using human DNA to make sex bots, or the stuff with the memory scanner thing, and the bioweapon in the pilot. The last couple have been enjoyable for what they are, they're just not what I was expecting.

 

[sojourner]

They need to take advantage of the setting.

 

[Ganja Tea]

Trying to step back, we still see the usual arguments being made.

Can't tell fantasy from reality... all dramas carry messages and only fools or liars deny it.

When the drama in question is making jokes about looking at your partner's balls, it's best not to take it to seriously. This isn't Shawshank Redemption we're talking about.

Incompetents like to say taste can't be disputed, but the sorry truth is that this sort of thing isn't like saying you prefer salt to sugar, it's like saying baking soda is sweet, then pretending it's all subjective.

No, it's like saying everyone who likes salt is an asshole simply because you don't. I don't have any problem with you not liking the show or the character or his actions. To each his own.

It's not real... this is closely related to the fantasy/reality dichotomy, but is aimed more at the idea that since it's all fictional, it doesn't matter: It has nothing to do with reality. Therefore, enjoying watching a Kennex murder a loudmouth doesn't suggest I really wish I could blow away loudmouths. The problem of course there isn't any reason to care about fiction unless we relate it to us in some fashion. Our feelings about the real world have everything to do with what we enjoy in fictional entertainment.

This right here is my problem. You want to portray posters who don't care about what happens to some bad guy on a tv show as being in some way okay with such actions in the real world. Now if you're going to imply that our approval of Kennex's actions say something about how we relate to the real world couldn't the same be said about your jibe that you hope we run into a Kennex like cop?

Of course when you make a joke about us being the victims of police brutality then it's just a joke, but when we cheer on a cop shooting a scumbag on a scifi show then, then it's something much more darker and nefarious....

 

[Alidar Jarok]

That's the logic of the '80s macho-fantasy violent cop movies this series seeks to emulate

I think this sums it up. It's part of the genre to a degree. I would hope that this isn't something that's dropped, but I don't know if I expect this to be one of those shows that tries to deal with this in a serious manner. Obviously, this doesn't appeal to everyone. My complaint was the lack of drama in the decision. You could quite possibly blink and miss that it happened.

If I were writing a show, I probably wouldn't have gone down that path, but it's a well-trodden path.