J.J. Abrams Almost Human

[Locutus of Bored]

Trying to step back, we still see the usual arguments being made.

Can't tell fantasy from reality... all dramas carry messages and only fools or liars deny it. They don't compel the audiences to act on those messages and condemning them as contributory to any acts is equally foolish. But no one has done this, except confusing a gibe with a real wish. The message carried by a drama, even it's acceptance of the status quo, is always a legitimate target of criticism.

That's not totally objective... doesn't have to be. It is convenient to pretend that all opinions are equal but they aren't. Some of the heat in the last exchange developed from posts trying to justify the murder when the drama itself couldn't. Accepting that the guy would really say something like that or that it would really be true requires a completely uncritical, nearly unconscious, viewing. Incompetents like to say taste can't be disputed, but the sorry truth is that this sort of thing isn't like saying you prefer salt to sugar, it's like saying baking soda is sweet, then pretending it's all subjective.

It's not real... this is closely related to the fantasy/reality dichotomy, but is aimed more at the idea that since it's all fictional, it doesn't matter: It has nothing to do with reality. Therefore, enjoying watching a Kennex murder a loudmouth doesn't suggest I really wish I could blow away loudmouths. The problem of course there isn't any reason to care about fiction unless we relate it to us in some fashion. Our feelings about the real world have everything to do with what we enjoy in fictional entertainment. We know perfectly well that it's not real, and sometimes we even consciously enjoy stuff precisely because we know it's not real.

Everybody actually knows this, and that's why a simple announcement that the ending was unconscionable and the show's over was instantly answered with a rude remark. Nonetheless, people will persist in watching TV and movie dramas with their feelings engaged and they will persist in relating them to the real world, never for a moment forgetting it's all fictional. This is the natural thing to do. It takes a pretty diminished capacity to leach drama of all significance. If you really don't invest anything emotional, then don't give a shit when someone criticizes it.

I didn't like Kennex shooting a suspect he already had in custody either, but your habit of negatively judging people for their preferences in fictional TV shows is really tiresome and ruins damn near every TV series thread you participate in, which is unfortunately a lot. Every time I start watching a show and see your user name turn up in the commentary thread it makes me not want to post there and have to put up with your tedious pontificating on how no one else is as deep and thoughtful as you are because you see the ugly truth behind everything.

Go rain on someone else's parade for awhile and let people enjoy their shows without being compared to war criminals because Sipowicz slapped a suspect with the Yellow Pages and they didn't immediately report it to The Hague on account of it didn't actually happen.

Meanwhile, you wore an avatar for years representing a country which participated in the largest mass murders in history, so what conclusions should we draw about what you support from actual real life events rather than a silly TV show about robots in the future? Not to mention your implication that people who supported Kennex's fictional actions against a fictional villain should meet up with a real life version of him who would kill them, which you quickly copped out on and tried to turn back around against the person who called you on it even though it was perfectly obvious to everyone what you were saying.

 

[BigJake]

I daresay Almost Human is not sounding appealing.

 

[Guy Gardener]

I survived Dexter.

Never seen Sheriff Lobo.

I don't mind watching a show about a corrupt cop doing horrible things.

But a little warning next time.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

I daresay Almost Human is not sounding appealing.

That's a pretty brutal but sadly accurate assessment of the show. About all it has going for it is the futuristic setting (which I agree, they don't actually try and explore at all but instead anchor down with rather mundane 80's style cop stories) and the banter between Kennex and Dorian.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

FWIW, I tend to go with the idea that it's a shitty dystopian future. Criminals have as much respect for not shooting the police as an El Salvadorian drug cartel would. That's why they always shoot first and ask questions later. It also could help explain the robots. Humans would start running out very quickly. If they could have entirely automated police forces like in Elysium, I'm sure they would.

That being said, I agree with everything in the article. Hell, I probably gave more thought to the consequences of a dystopian future than they have and I've only seen two episodes. They can go with a future where the cops have to do this, but they at least have to explore it somewhat.

 

[Awesome Possum]

FWIW, I tend to go with the idea that it's a shitty dystopian future. Criminals have as much respect for not shooting the police as an El Salvadorian drug cartel would. That's why they always shoot first and ask questions later. It also could help explain the robots. Humans would start running out very quickly. If they could have entirely automated police forces like in Elysium, I'm sure they would.

That being said, I agree with everything in the article. Hell, I probably gave more thought to the consequences of a dystopian future than they have and I've only seen two episodes. They can go with a future where the cops have to do this, but they at least have to explore it somewhat.

They've made a point that crime has gotten so bad that they need robots to help fight it. So this could be standard procedure in this future world. I kinda hope they will build on it.

Also the show needs more banter between the two leads, that's great. Also I'm really liking the exploration of Dorian. The scene where he wanted to be with the sexbot that was being shut down was interesting and I'd like to see more of it. What is it like for a being that close to us in a world where he is viewed as nothing more than a glitchy machine.

 

[Gov Kodos]

Trying to step back, we still see the usual arguments being made.

Can't tell fantasy from reality... all dramas carry messages and only fools or liars deny it. They don't compel the audiences to act on those messages and condemning them as contributory to any acts is equally foolish. But no one has done this, except confusing a gibe with a real wish. The message carried by a drama, even it's acceptance of the status quo, is always a legitimate target of criticism.

And tedious pedants think so, too.

That's not totally objective... doesn't have to be. It is convenient to pretend that all opinions are equal but they aren't. Some of the heat in the last exchange developed from posts trying to justify the murder when the drama itself couldn't. Accepting that the guy would really say something like that or that it would really be true requires a completely uncritical, nearly unconscious, viewing. Incompetents like to say taste can't be disputed, but the sorry truth is that this sort of thing isn't like saying you prefer salt to sugar, it's like saying baking soda is sweet, then pretending it's all subjective.

Objective or absolute truth?

It's not real... this is closely related to the fantasy/reality dichotomy, but is aimed more at the idea that since it's all fictional, it doesn't matter: It has nothing to do with reality. Therefore, enjoying watching a Kennex murder a loudmouth doesn't suggest I really wish I could blow away loudmouths. The problem of course there isn't any reason to care about fiction unless we relate it to us in some fashion. Our feelings about the real world have everything to do with what we enjoy in fictional entertainment. We know perfectly well that it's not real, and sometimes we even consciously enjoy stuff precisely because we know it's not real.

No.

Everybody actually knows this, and that's why a simple announcement that the ending was unconscionable and the show's over was instantly answered with a rude remark. Nonetheless, people will persist in watching TV and movie dramas with their feelings engaged and they will persist in relating them to the real world, never for a moment forgetting it's all fictional. This is the natural thing to do. It takes a pretty diminished capacity to leach drama of all significance. If you really don't invest anything emotional, then don't give a shit when someone criticizes it.

Sucks people like what you don't, huh? Welcome to the world.

 

[Ensign_Redshirt]

Um, yes, the way John Kennex casually tortures and kills suspects is starting to require some suspension of disbelief. Realistically, he should be under investigation by Internal Affairs by now. And is Maldonado simply unaware of John's methods or does she delibaretly turn a blind eye?

The writers probably try to turn Kennex into some futuristic version of Jack Bauer, but they have to be very careful that they're not unwillingly turn him into a futuristic Vic Mackey. (Ironically, last episode's police captain-turned-drug lord was played by a former main cast member of The Shield.)

Of course, there's also some moral dissonance here, because he's not intentionally written as an ambigious character. Everything he does is supposed to be "kewl".

 

[Guy Gardener]

I spent most of the first episode thinking that they were talking about John Kennish.

 

[Marc]

Um, yes, the way John Kennex casually tortures and kills suspects is starting to require some suspension of disbelief. Realistically, he should be under investigation by Internal Affairs by now. And is Maldonado simply unaware of John's methods or does she delibaretly turn a blind eye?

The writers probably try to turn Kennex into some futuristic version of Jack Bauer, but they have to be very careful that they're not unwillingly turn him into a futuristic Vic Mackey. (Ironically, last episode's police captain-turned-drug lord was played by a former main cast member of The Shield.)

Of course, there's also some moral dissonance here, because he's not intentionally written as an ambigious character. Everything he does is supposed to be "kewl".

It's interesting that this discussion is taking place yet when Hawaii 5-0 featured pretty much the same thing at the beginning of last season little discussion and no follow-up/no consequences.

 

[Ensign_Redshirt]

Um, yes, the way John Kennex casually tortures and kills suspects is starting to require some suspension of disbelief. Realistically, he should be under investigation by Internal Affairs by now. And is Maldonado simply unaware of John's methods or does she delibaretly turn a blind eye?

The writers probably try to turn Kennex into some futuristic version of Jack Bauer, but they have to be very careful that they're not unwillingly turn him into a futuristic Vic Mackey. (Ironically, last episode's police captain-turned-drug lord was played by a former main cast member of The Shield.)

Of course, there's also some moral dissonance here, because he's not intentionally written as an ambigious character. Everything he does is supposed to be "kewl".

It's interesting that this discussion is taking place yet when Hawaii 5-0 featured pretty much the same thing at the beginning of last season little discussion and no follow-up/no consequences.

I've never seen Hawaii 5-0.

 

[sojourner]

I didn't know 5-0 was still on. I gave up on it during season 2.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

I haven't watched a single episode of the new Hawaii 5-0 so I can't comment on the scene.

Since I've made clear that I'm not in principle opposed to scenes like that (I gave Platoon as a good example), I'd have to see the scene in context to comment. However, my absence of commenting on Hawaii 5-0 isn't a double standard, I just have no idea about that scene in any shape or form.

 

[Agent Richard07]

Aceveda's looking pretty good 50 years on.

 

[Marc]

I haven't watched a single episode of the new Hawaii 5-0 so I can't comment on the scene.

Since I've made clear that I'm not in principle opposed to scenes like that (I gave Platoon as a good example), I'd have to see the scene in context to comment. However, my absence of commenting on Hawaii 5-0 isn't a double standard, I just have no idea about that scene in any shape or form.

bad guy wounded after being shot trying to escape, brags about how he's going to get away with killed the cop's wife, cop lets him have it with the 12 guage.

Pretty much as happened on Almost Human.

But I'm not saying that absence of commentary about one is a double standard but merely perhaps the diffrences in audiences or perhaps for the most part people are desensitized when it comes to cop shows and use of force.

 

[Zaku]

When Thomas Magnum, the hero of a tv detective show in 1982, (when heroes still didn't do morally questionable things on television), turned around and fired a single shot, with the episode ending on a freeze-frame, it was a historic moment for commercial television.

Now it's just stale.

 

[sojourner]

Did you see the sunrise today, Ivan?

 

[Alidar Jarok]

I haven't watched a single episode of the new Hawaii 5-0 so I can't comment on the scene.

Since I've made clear that I'm not in principle opposed to scenes like that (I gave Platoon as a good example), I'd have to see the scene in context to comment. However, my absence of commenting on Hawaii 5-0 isn't a double standard, I just have no idea about that scene in any shape or form.

bad guy wounded after being shot trying to escape, brags about how he's going to get away with killed the cop's wife, cop lets him have it with the 12 guage.

Pretty much as happened on Almost Human.

Yeah, I gathered that much from your previous post on it. The problem is that television is a visual medium and much can be done through pacing, facial expressions and other non-verbal acting, and even the musical score. In addition, context from earlier in the episode or previous episodes can help to. Was this a cop who was skirting the line and building up to do something bigger? Did he show signs of emotional instability earlier? Were the ties to the person that who the "bad guy" would get away with killing established ahead of time? There's lots of little things that can make a scene work. If the writers had decided he was going to do something like this before they wrote this episode (or, imo, before they wrote that scene) it could have been more effective.

Another good example where the cop's actions work is Se7en. IMO, that's an even better example than Platoon.

But I'm not saying that absence of commentary about one is a double standard but merely perhaps the diffrences in audiences or perhaps for the most part people are desensitized when it comes to cop shows and use of force.

See, I don't think the audience is desensitized to these things today. In fact, with the rise of morally ambiguous anti-heroes, I think we expect things like this, but we also expect them to address the consequences.

 

[Mister Fandango]

See, I don't think the audience is desensitized to these things today. In fact, with the rise of morally ambiguous anti-heroes, I think we expect things like this, but we also expect them to address the consequences.

What makes you think they won't address the consequences? In fact, they made it painfully obvious by how big a deal it was that it's very unlikely they won't address it. The complete and utter lack of any commentary about it, even by the character himself, pretty much screams that it's going to come back to haunt him.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

Really? It screams to me that they'll bury it. If they address it, great. I said as much earlier - that it would completely change things. Please let me know if they do