It's Not You, It's Me: When Well-Written Characters Annoy

[SoullessMinion]

Re-reading Greater Than the Sum recently had me me thinking about the character of T'Ryssa Chen, specifically my reactions to her, and, having come to some conclusions, I thought I might as well share them.

When I first met Chen, I hated her. Just could not stand her, in a visceral way that actually startled me. I dismissed her as a typical "Manic Pixie Dream Girl" a collection of quirks masquerading as a personality. Now, though, I think I was wrong: I didn't hate Chen because she was poorly-written character, but because she wasn't. She was almost too well-written, if there can be such a thing (I doubt it.)

Let me clarify. I'm very much an introvert and suffer from depression and social anxiety as well. I often find people of Chen's personality type - extroverted, brash, "quirky," - difficult to deal with. Not because there is anything wrong with them, but because they're just overwhelming. Almost like a kind of sensory overload. When I'm in the midst of a depressive episode - which I was when I first read the book - I become even more sensitive. Looking back, I see I was in a bad place mentally and emotionally, and Chen was just too much for me, like a siren blaring in my ear while I was suffering from a migraine.

So. I reacted to Chen as if she were a real person. How then, can I call her poorly-written character, when that is pretty much the definition of a well-written one? Obviously, I can't. I still don't much like Chen, but I don't hate her and I'm not dismissive of her. Who says I have to like everyone, anyway, even if they are the good guys? Why is it good writing to make a villain sympathetic, but bad writing to make a hero annoying?

This makes me wonder, how common is this reaction? Not just T'Ryssa Chen, but any Treklit character. Who are the well-written characters that annoy you?

 

[Nathan]

I agree with your take on Chen, I always thought she was poorly written from the get-go.

I think you were spot-on when in GTTS she was written as Manic Pixie Dream Girl......then later on she became Picard's Aide (and she was still sorta quirky, but appeared she was on meds as she was toned down a bit.) I think it was forced/plot device to make her the aide. Yeah, if Picard wants to mentor her, no problem there -- but don't make her the Captain's aide.

Then....in a later book she commanded the bridge in some contrived situation (or course, she did a decent job, but it was the way she was written which was unbelieveable.)

Then, she was written as some teen-aged love story with an extra scoop of angst with her and Taurik.

If she is the Contact Specialist, keep her as the contact specialist, not make her the Captain's Aide, and then running the Bridge in an emergency situation of one of the most popular ships in the fleet.

I thought I read that Chris wrote her based on a real person (in fact one that he had a crush on, but she wasn't returning the favor).

But yep, she annoys me, and now in when I read about her scenes, I put my eyeballs on "warp speed" to finish reading through the scene.

 

[Christopher]

Let me clarify. I'm very much an introvert and suffer from depression and social anxiety as well. I often find people of Chen's personality type - extroverted, brash, "quirky," - difficult to deal with. Not because there is anything wrong with them, but because they're just overwhelming. Almost like a kind of sensory overload.

It's interesting to see that reaction. You see, I'm an introvert who's prone to depression and social anxiety as well, and I create extroverted, unfiltered characters like T'Ryssa and Emerald Blair as a sort of wish fulfillment -- the sort of person I imagine I could be if I weren't so shy and timid, so afraid of failure or the judgment of others. They have all the confidence and fearlessness that I lack. I'm aware their quirks can be annoying to the people around them, but they're self-assured enough that it doesn't unduly worry them, because they know they have to be true to themselves. Indeed, a lot of T'Ryssa's acting up is a deliberate rebellion against society's efforts to stereotype her as a Vulcan -- while Emerald's aggressive sexuality is partly a rebellion against the prudishness of the habitat where she grew up. One thing they do have in common with me is that they're perfectly okay with not fitting in and not conforming to societal expectations for how they should behave -- but in my case, it was more involuntary, more a matter of being a social outcast. I couldn't fit in, and the enforcers of conformity were mostly bullies and fools anyway, so I took pride in the things that made me different from them. But these characters have the confidence and charm that could let them win friends and influence people, yet they still embrace and emphasize their nonconformity by choice, judging themselves only by their own standards.

 

[Idran]

I agree with your take on Chen, I always thought she was poorly written from the get-go.

"When Well-Written Characters Annoy".

This thread isn't supposed to be about any character that annoys you. It's supposed to be about a character that you think is well-written but that annoys you.

 

[JD]

I'm kind of in a similar situation with a non-Trek book I'm reading right now. The post-apocalyptic book Blood Red Road is written from the first person of a young woman who's spent her whole life out in a wasteland, so the whole thing is purposefully written with tons of spelling and grammatical errors, and it's driving me crazy. I understand what the author was going for, but it's still driving me crazy.

 

[David cgc]

I'm kind of in a similar situation with a non-Trek book I'm reading right now. The post-apocalyptic book Blood Red Road is written from the first person of a young woman who's spent her whole life out in a wasteland, so the whole thing is purposefully written with tons of spelling and grammatical errors, and it's driving me crazy. I understand what the author was going for, but it's still driving me crazy.

It's never a good idea to write in dialect. Never, never, never.

I even take a dim view on books that don't use a standard first- or third-person past tense unless they've got a good reason for the stylistic flourish (distinguishing different places or time periods or emphasizing the state of mind of a particular character). It's much more likely in my experience that it'll interfere with the reader than that it will give them something transcendent that conventional prose wouldn't communicate.

 

[DimesDan]

It's never a good idea to write in dialect. Never, never, never.

I even take a dim view on books that don't use a standard first- or third-person past tense unless they've got a good reason for the stylistic flourish (distinguishing different places or time periods or emphasizing the state of mind of a particular character). It's much more likely in my experience that it'll interfere with the reader than that it will give them something transcendent that conventional prose wouldn't communicate.

I've read a fair few books based in Scotland, Rankin and Brookmyre and they occasionally use local phrases and dialect, I rather like it.

 

[JD]

I found an excerpt on Amazon, so here's a bit of it to give you guys an idea of what it's like.

So, after last night’s hotwind, me an Lugh was down at the landfill at first light scavenging. We dug around a part of it we ain’t never tried before an damn if we didn’t manage to score ourselves some primo Wrecker junk. A nice big sheet of metal, not too rusted, an a cookin pot that’s still got its handle.
Lugh works on the roof while I do what I always do, which is clamber up an down the ladder an hand him what he needs. Nero does what he always does, which is perch on my shoulder an caw real loud, right in my ear, to tell me what he’s thinkin. He’s always got a opinion does Nero, an he’s real smart too. I figger if only we could unnerstand crow talk, we’d find he was tellin us a thing or two about the best way to fix a roof.
He’ll of thought about it, you can bet on that. He’s watched us fix it fer five year now. Ever since I found him fell outta the nest an his ma nowhere to be seen. Pa warn’t too happy to see me bring a crow babby home. He told me some folk consider crows bring death, but I was set on rearin him by hand an once I set my mind on somethin I stick with it. An then there’s Emmi. She’s doin what she always does, which is pester me an Lugh. She dogs my heels as I go from the ladder to the junk pile an back.
I wanna help, she says.
Hold the ladder then, I says.
No! I mean really help! All you ever let me do is hold the ladder!
Well, I says, maybe that’s all yer fit fer. You ever think of that?
She folds her arms across her skinny little chest an scowls at me. Yer mean, she says.
So you keep tellin me, I says.
I start up the ladder, a piece of rusty metal in my hand, but I ain’t gone more’n three rungs before she takes hold an starts shakin it. I grab on to stop myself from fallin. Nero squawks an fl aps off in a flurry of feathers. I glare down at Em. Cut that out! I says. What’re you tryin to do, break my neck?
Lugh’s head pops over the side of the roof. All right, Em, he says, that’s enough. Go help Pa.

I hesitated buying it after I read a sample, but I assumed I would get used to it after a while. I'm 50+ pages into it now, and it's still bugging me. I'm not sure if I'm going to keep reading.

 

[DimesDan]

I found an excerpt on Amazon, so here's a bit of it to give you guys an idea of what it's like.

I hesitated buying it after I read a sample, but I assumed I would get used to it after a while. I'm 50+ pages into it now, and it's still bugging me. I'm not sure if I'm going to keep reading.

Money well spent then.

 

[Greg Cox]

I'm kind of in a similar situation with a non-Trek book I'm reading right now. The post-apocalyptic book Blood Red Road is written from the first person of a young woman who's spent her whole life out in a wasteland, so the whole thing is purposefully written with tons of spelling and grammatical errors, and it's driving me crazy. I understand what the author was going for, but it's still driving me crazy.

Depends on how it's handled. Trying to convey regional dialects phonetically often drives me nuts, but, on the other hand, what about "Flowers for Algernon" or "Huckleberry Finn"? Neither of which would work at all if the narrator used proper spelling and grammar throughout.

Ditto for "Born of Man and Woman" by Richard Matheson, although that's a short story and not a novel.

 

[Idran]

I even take a dim view on books that don't use a standard first- or third-person past tense unless they've got a good reason for the stylistic flourish (distinguishing different places or time periods or emphasizing the state of mind of a particular character). It's much more likely in my experience that it'll interfere with the reader than that it will give them something transcendent that conventional prose wouldn't communicate.

I'd be up for seeing a book written in fourth person the whole way through, myself.

 

[JD]

Depends on how it's handled. Trying to convey regional dialects phonetically often drives me nuts, but, on the other hand, what about "Flowers for Algernon" or "Huckleberry Finn"? Neither of which would work at all if the narrator used proper spelling and grammar throughout.

Ditto for "Born of Man and Woman" by Richard Matheson, although that's a short story and not a novel.

I understand that sometimes it does help to get you into the world of the story, but it doesn't really seem to be entirely necessary to me here. The book has a lot of really good reviews on Amazon and Goodreads, so it looks like a lot of people are able to get past the dialect, but I just can't.

 

[DS9Continuing]

The one that jumps out to me is Xin Ra-Havreii, the chief engineer on the Titan. He's been consistently written as rather an asshole, a generally unpleasant person who has too many chips on his shoulder. I enjoy reading him, but I can't say I like him as a person.

.

 

[SoullessMinion]

It's interesting to see that reaction. You see, I'm an introvert who's prone to depression and social anxiety as well, and I create extroverted, unfiltered characters like T'Ryssa and Emerald Blair as a sort of wish fulfillment -- the sort of person I imagine I could be if I weren't so shy and timid, so afraid of failure or the judgment of others. They have all the confidence and fearlessness that I lack. I'm aware their quirks can be annoying to the people around them, but they're self-assured enough that it doesn't unduly worry them, because they know they have to be true to themselves.

It's paradoxical. I often admire extroverted, nonconformist people (not that introverts can't be non-comformist, as well) and, I can't deny it, envy them as well. But, as I said, I often feel overwhelmed by them. Social interaction can be tiring enough and these types are exhausting. When I'm at a particularly low ebb, mentally or emotionally, it can feel almost offensive, like they are being exuberant at me, in a malicious, deliberate way. This is an irrational reaction, of course, I know no actual person who would do that and it's an especially absurd motive to apply to a fictional character, but visceral "gut" reactions don't run on rationality and I certainly had one to Chen! It felt like she reached up out of the book to grab me by the shoulders to shout "LOOK AT ME! I'M NOT LIKE OTHER VULCANS OR STARFLEET OFFICERS! I'M AN ORIGINAL! DON'T FENCE ME IN! I RUN AROUND NAKED AND SAY WHATEVER I WANT AND I'M TOTALLY EMOTIONAL AND LOOK AT MEEEEE!" and I was leaning back, all, "good for you, but get the hell out of my face." I say that means you did your job well, Christopher.

Whatever else can be said about T'Ryssa Chen, she's distinctive. Elfiki and Smrhova are still mostly names on a page to me. Jasminder Choudhury was distinctive as well - I loved her - but of course she's gone now.

 

[Charles Phipps]

Oddly enough, I had this problem with Christopher's depiction of Admiral Archer in Rise of the Federation: A Choice of Futures. Archer is wonderfully well-written and the model of the Federation's leadership but I disliked how he was very clearly interested in what HE WANTED to form it into versus what everyone else wanted to form it into. That struck me as profoundly arrogant even if it worked well for preventing the Federation from just becoming Space NATO.

It did, however, do what I think the show didn't do very well and show Archer as a kind of man who was ahead of his time. I wonder if any of that was the remnants of Sarek's influence or if he was already someone who was more than a normal human of his era.

Oh and I like T'Ryssa Chen. We need more sexy Vulcans.

 

[Christopher]

Oddly enough, I had this problem with Christopher's depiction of Admiral Archer in Rise of the Federation: A Choice of Futures. Archer is wonderfully well-written and the model of the Federation's leadership but I disliked how he was very clearly interested in what HE WANTED to form it into versus what everyone else wanted to form it into. That struck me as profoundly arrogant even if it worked well for preventing the Federation from just becoming Space NATO.

I don't know if it's any more arrogant than any other leader with a vision. Often one person with a clear, strong message of reform and the determination to sell it to others is necessary to make a difference. Social and political movements, for better or worse, tend to center on the single individuals who become the most determined proponents of their messages. And in fiction, it's dramatically convenient to choose a single person to stand for an entire movement. Look at Garak on postwar Cardassia, say. Or Ambassador Spock on Romulus.

And Archer has the edge of actually having seen the Federation's future. He's driven not just by personal belief, but by actual foreknowledge, and he's trying to make sure that bright future comes to pass. And he's not doing it for his own power or gratification; he resists promotion and added authority.

 

[Avro Arrow]

I know he's only been in one book so far, but... everyone else seemed to love Ethan Kyzak in the review thread. But there was something about him that just rubbed me the wrong way. I'm not even sure I can put my finger on it, exactly, but I did find him, well, annoying. He was well-written, though.

(Sorry, I believe James Swallow posts here... no offense intended. I did enjoy the book overall, it was just this one character.)

 

[jaime]

I'd be up for seeing a book written in fourth person the whole way through, myself.

A tradition of gothic novels then. Frankenstein springs to mind. Aren't a couple of voyager episodes sort of fourth person?

And Dead Romance over in the doctor who spin off lands is....nth person.

 

[jaime]

And a character who must be well written, because the writing is good, but who I really really can't stand, and not in the way the characters can't stand him, is Cambridge over in the Voyager books. And maybe Serena in Ds9 largely because I think the ezra/Bashir thing was not handled well, and don't get the fascination with section 31 at all. (which makes me think of a character I like who is currently under written or badly used....Miles O'brien)

 

[jaime]

Phone spellchecker ate ezri