"IS WARP DRIVE POSSIBLE?" - A discussion

[Dryson]

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/04/27/...y3XPfQiuBr_hKE_EoR_Pxdo7lj1MQfx5KOpSGKVLITir8

Titanium discovered in Cassiopeia.

If only atom sized, Titanium would create a dramatic increase in metallic elements that would in essence, create a solid wall of metal.

If there is 1 light year of Titanium in area that a starship is traveling through, wouldn't the entire volume of Titanium be encountered at super fast FTL compared to encountering a lesser volume of Titanium at slower the FTL speeds?

Then you have the magnetic and EM properties of Titanium to contend with that would be similar to flying close to a micro black hole possibly. The field would be generated as a result of the ship passing through the volume and encountering the Titanium atoms at a faster rate.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

The lack of alien visitors doesn't prove no space faring aliens. It just proves something about their density and proximity. That it's either really hard to find us, or too expensive to be worth the visit.

 

[Dryson]

The lack of alien visitors doesn't prove no space faring aliens. It just proves something about their density and proximity. That it's either really hard to find us, or too expensive to be worth the visit.

..Or, perhaps the aliens are intelligent enough to use Mars while the planet is on the other side of the Sun that would make detecting their presence from Earth, almost impossible.

Don't give up hope on FTL yet, interesting sigma's are being discovered at CERN.

https://earthsky.org/human-world/new-law-particle-physics-cern

 

[JirinPanthosa]

..Or, perhaps the aliens are intelligent enough to use Mars while the planet is on the other side of the Sun that would make detecting their presence from Earth, almost impossible.

Sure, it's possible, but why would they come all the way here just to hide and not do anything?

I find it infinitely more likely that aliens didn't come here because the cost wasn't worth the benefit than that they came here just to be all secrety and conspiratorial.

 

[Dryson]

Sure, it's possible, but why would they come all the way here just to hide and not do anything?

I find it infinitely more likely that aliens didn't come here because the cost wasn't worth the benefit than that they came here just to be all secrety and conspiratorial.

Maybe the aliens are watching how Earth progresses and is reporting their findings back to their central command?

Earth is an extremely war based and violent planet. Such intelligence being spread throughout the galaxy would prepare the galaxy for when humans achieve at least half the speed of light or close to the speed of light velocities.

Question relating to FTL.

What is the fastest velocity that an object, other than planets, has been clocked at traveling through or solar system?

Building craft capable of achieving extreme velocities should be based off of asteroids that don't fly apart at extreme velocities.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

Maybe the aliens are watching how Earth progresses and is reporting their findings back to their central command?

Earth is an extremely war based and violent planet. Such intelligence being spread throughout the galaxy would prepare the galaxy for when humans achieve at least half the speed of light or close to the speed of light velocities.

Question relating to FTL.

What is the fastest velocity that an object, other than planets, has been clocked at traveling through or solar system?

Building craft capable of achieving extreme velocities should be based off of asteroids that don't fly apart at extreme velocities.

I have doubts that the violence on our planet would be outside the galactic norm.

But you have great confidence in their ability to hide. To get close enough to observe us while still being EM silent.

Even if there is some peaceful galactic organization governing the galaxy which somehow leaves no radio evidence at all, and is willing to make huge capital investment in the trip with no promise of any return, you think there’s nobody who has thought of secretly getting rich by selling us technology?

You’re also making assumptions that they have beaten time dilation, and muscle atrophy, and radiation exposure.

 

[Swedish Borg]

I don't think Warp drive is possible, but it sounds like a certainty when you compare it to the possibility of transporters...That's ridiculously impossible. And if you disintegrate someone, that is, turn them into vapor or worse yet plasma, then it will be like exploding several kilograms of dynamite, you'd better not be in the vicinity!!! Because you know an explosion is what you get when a solid or a liquid are converted rapidly into a gas!!!!

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

You’re also making assumptions that they have beaten time dilation, and muscle atrophy, and radiation exposure.

Rotating habitats or constant acceleration/deceleration and a sufficient amount of interposed matter plus optional magnetic fields deal with the latter two problems. Time dilation is a help not a hindrance although you probably wouldn't shouldn't want ever to go home again if you've been travelling near the speed of light for too long as measured by the home planet's clocks.

 

[Swedish Borg]

Rotating habitats or constant acceleration/deceleration and a sufficient amount of interposed matter plus optional magnetic fields deal with the latter two problems. Time dilation is a help not a hindrance although you probably wouldn't shouldn't want ever to go home again if you've been travelling near the speed of light for too long as measured by the home planet's clocks.

It's funny how Star Trek subspace is different from Asimov's hyperspace for example. Asimov's travel through hyperspace is instantaneous, in fact, you can't exist in hyperspace for any length of time and you need to get as far as possible from your solar system of origin because the gravity field caused by the star and the planet makes the calculations much more complicated and imprecise. Two very different ideas.

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

What is the fastest velocity that an object, other than planets, has been clocked at traveling through or solar system?

Oumuamua was travelling at 88 km/s at closest approach to the Sun on a hyperbolic trajectory. Helios-2 reached about 70 km/s at about 0.29 AU perihelion (just closer than the perihelion of Mercury) but is in a bound solar orbit with an aphelion near 1 AU. Mercury orbits at an average of about 47 km/s with a perihelion of 0.31 AU and an aphelion of 0.47 AU.

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

It's funny how Star Trek subspace is different from Asimov's hyperspace for example. Asimov's travel through hyperspace is instantaneous, in fact, you can't exist in hyperspace for any length of time and you need to get as far as possible from your solar system of origin because the gravity field caused by the star and the planet makes the calculations much more complicated and imprecise. Two very different ideas.

Asimov knew that his version of FTL could break causality and chose to ignore it for the sake of the story.

 

[Swedish Borg]

Asimov knew that his version of FTL could break causality and chose to ignore it for the sake of the story.

Break causality? How so?

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

Break causality? How so?

Going outside the light cone. It doesn't matter how you do it. If travelling beyond our space-time in some sort of subspace/hyperspace, you'd have to have some way to re-emerge at the correct time as well as space coordinate. The space-time of our universe is tricky - there is no universal clock or indeed "now".

Light cone - Wikipedia
Where galaxies are now or is there a universal 'now'? | Physics Forums

 

[Swedish Borg]

Going outside the light cone. It doesn't matter how you do it. If travelling beyond our space-time in some sort of subspace/hyperspace, you'd have to have some way to re-emerge at the correct time as well as space coordinate. The space-time of our universe is tricky - there is no universal clock or indeed "now".

Light cone - Wikipedia
Where galaxies are now or is there a universal 'now'? | Physics Forums

Isn't that true of Star Trek warp drive as well?

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

Isn't that true of Star Trek warp drive as well?

Yes and also the Alcubierre drive.

 

[at Quark's]

I'm hoping it is (of course), but based on what is known, the odds don't look that good.

On the other hand, if it isn't, we're also (somewhat) protected from more advanced aggressive aliens.

 

[dupersuper]

I find it infinitely more likely that aliens didn't come here because the cost wasn't worth the benefit than that they came here just to be all secrety and conspiratorial.

Or even more likely, they have no clue we exist.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

Rotating habitats or constant acceleration/deceleration and a sufficient amount of interposed matter plus optional magnetic fields deal with the latter two problems. Time dilation is a help not a hindrance although you probably wouldn't shouldn't want ever to go home again if you've been travelling near the speed of light for too long as measured by the home planet's clocks.

If you can’t go faster than light but can safely get arbitrarily close to it, you get into the cost/benefit problem. Coming here means thousands of years pass at home and all their friends and family are dead when they get here.

And yeah, they would have a hard time finding us. A lot of planets around look sorta like they might support carbon life. I suspect microbial life is common. But finding the one that supports intelligent life without being close enough to see our radio signals means what, stumbling around the galaxy randomly hoping to find something?

In some apocalyptic scenario where they are trying to resettle they would be more likely to look for the microbial life instead. Why conquer a planet when there’s 1000 times as many you don’t have to bother conquering? Potentially millions of planets you can settle on and you pick the one that can fight back?

 

[JirinPanthosa]

I don't think Warp drive is possible, but it sounds like a certainty when you compare it to the possibility of transporters...That's ridiculously impossible. And if you disintegrate someone, that is, turn them into vapor or worse yet plasma, then it will be like exploding several kilograms of dynamite, you'd better not be in the vicinity!!! Because you know an explosion is what you get when a solid or a liquid are converted rapidly into a gas!!!!

But, if you could ever transfer consciousness into machines, you could 3D print a body at the destination and just download yourself.

 

[Swedish Borg]

But, if you could ever transfer consciousness into machines, you could 3D print a body at the destination and just download yourself.

And make a copy! Just like a fax machine, you get a copy to your destination but the original hasn't moved. However, if you destroy the original, then all you have left is a copy. That's what a transporter is, a killing machine that populates the world with copies of the people that were originally there...