"IS WARP DRIVE POSSIBLE?" - A discussion

[publiusr]

Wished they would stop being so FLIPPING annoying and go for NERVA like propulsion, not the best you can get but heck, it works.

NTR—done right—needs hydrogen...and everyone is a methalox guy now. Errr.

Nuclear Thermal to get your crew to Mars, have it limp back unmanned with nuclear electric.

Now, in terms of NEP. I wonder if you could use Radon...use that instead of helium for pressure...use it up coming back..

 

[Dryson]

Perhaps hyper acceleration gates would be better to get around the solar system with.

A much larger version of the magnetic railgun could possibly accelerate cargo containers and crew modules brought to the hyper acceleration gate via one of Musks reusable rockets.

Less waste and money spent on fuel and component parts that can never be used again.

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

Crewed modules? Well, ok, if you don't mind being turned into raspberry jam...

 

[Dryson]

The hyper accelerated gate would, in principal, be based on the Railgun.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Railgun
Space Based Railgun
https://www.sciencetimes.com/articl...space-exploration-not-so-sci-fi-after-all.htm

However, the electromagnetic railgun is still far from being capable of launching or propelling objects of larger mass like moon ores. The experiment only worked with small projectiles for now. Anything that is larger will require a complicated thermal management and a huge amount of electricity to reach hypervelocity. Wired explained that electromagnetic railgun uses electricity instead of the traditional chemical propellants.

Another issue is the size of the electromagnetic railgun needed to successfully launch a space vehicle. Based on current prototypes, a 160-meter long mass driver is needed. This means a lot of resources and a significant amount of power. Only by then will the electromagnetic railgun breach the 5,300 miles per hour requirement for the escape velocity at the moon.

Current makes the railgun behave as an electromagnet, creating a magnetic field inside the loop formed by the length of the rails up to the position of the armature. ... Although these speeds are possible, the heat generated from the propulsion of the object is enough to erode the rails rapidly.

How can the heat generated be used to propel the object forward?

Basically, like the gas tube of an M-16-A2 service rifle, the heat can be collected and then used to assist the railgun in propelling the cargo or crew pod.

Heat is a form of energy. It is not a force. Any change in momentum is due to heat being absorbed by gas, which increases its kinetic energy, and hence the temperature of the gas.Dec 14, 2019

Thus, gas injected into the firing chamber that absorbs the most heat possible would increase the kinetic energy potential when launching a cargo pod or crew pod.

 

[Dryson]

Alpha Point - All internal energy such as thermal, rotational, and internal potential energy contributes to the rest mass of an object. ... So, yes, a hot object has greater rest mass and would weigh more when measured, if a scale were sensitive enough.

So basically a ship using plasma would be hot and create more mass due to the plasma and the plasma components being hot. The heat from the Sun and reflected light from the planets would also create heat against the hull of the ship the faster it traveled. Therefore the outside hull would need to be coated with an Ultra

What about using Cold Fuel? Basically the idea would involve using atoms cooled to absolute zero, the temperature of space. Keeping the atoms Ultra Cold would generate considerable less heat that would add mass to the ship compared to a solid or liquid fuel which adds mass due to the heat that is present as a result of the state of matter that the fuel is in.

But in theory, Ultra Cold atoms would suddenly excited, would move farther apart at a faster rate of velocity, but still not moving fast enough to generate heat. But how do we create a propulsive force using ultra cold atoms inside of a rocket nozzle?


****The faster a ship travels towards the speed of light, the more heat is generated, heat from the engine and possibly heat from interactions between gravitational fields and the ships hull along with encountering light photons and the heat a photon generates along with dust, would create more mass. More mass that could be the "infinite mass issue" often talked about.

Thus keeping the hull of a ship ultra cold to reduce heat generated mass is another key to FTL.****

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

Manipulation of the space-time manifold seems like the approach most likely to succeed IMO. But, as I stated before, if it were possible, we'd already have more definitive proof of this through its use by aliens. Perhaps they're just keeping their distance until we make it through the great filter.

 

[Santaman]

I really wonder what aliens would think of us, either totally hilarious or revolting or a combination of the two..

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

I'm thinking a cross between The Osbournes, Keeping Up With The Kardashians, Love Island, and The Truman Show.

 

[Santaman]

That bad eh?

 

[Dryson]

Manipulation of the space-time manifold seems like the approach most likely to succeed IMO. But, as I stated before, if it were possible, we'd already have more definitive proof of this through its use by aliens. Perhaps they're just keeping their distance until we make it through the great filter.

But how do you fold the manifold of the gravity generated by all celestial objects within a solar system?

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

The Alcubierre drive is the example usually quoted. Supposedly there is now a design that doesn't require negative energy. The curvature of space-time within a solar system is relatively flat except near massive bodies such as stars and planets. The curvature required by the drive's warp field is probably large in the vicinity of the wall of the warp bubble where large tidal forces would be experienced. However, the whole concept is not something that I know much about. Even the experts often disagree about what is and isn't possible. Even if it isn't possible to construct such a drive, knowing exactly why it's impossible would provide valuable understanding of Physics.

 

[Imaus]

The Alcubierre drive is the example usually quoted. Supposedly there is now a design that doesn't require negative energy. The curvature of space-time within a solar system is relatively flat except near massive bodies such as stars and planets. The curvature required by the drive's warp field is probably large in the vicinity of the wall of the warp bubble where large tidal forces would be experienced. However, the whole concept is not something that I know much about. Even the experts often disagree about what is and isn't possible. Even if it isn't possible to construct such a drive, knowing exactly why it's impossible would provide valuable understanding of Physics.

This is good, though, because if you can only travel easily in flat space-time, with gravity being a barrier, it means that there's a reason we're not suddenly wiped out by an alien fleet. That's a fair trade off.

Heh. In Star Quest Online, to jump from Hyperdrive I to Hyperdrive V, some genius got the idea of...getting out of the system first, past the solar influence (which was around the Asteroid belt, Arbitrary) and boom. Gravitational bodies being a sort of 'coast' or 'seabed' is more than fine. Sure a Star Destroyer can't just pop out over D.C, but that's a fair trade, isn't it?

Post-9/11 we now know that accident isn't the only source of danger. Having our beautiful Star Trek dream hijacked by radicals could have disastrous consequences.

Having it hijacked means at worst they burn it up on a course that might take it over a city. Space throws worse at us every day, and while atmospheric distribution will not be enviable, it'll be a fraction of a fraction of any atmospheric bomb test we've done.

We need to stop being so damn scared of nuclear power, nuclear accidents, nuclear mishap. Fukushima did not kill the Pacific, Chernobyl did not kill Kiev to its south, Three Mile didn't do jack. It's all overblown. Respect nuclear, manage it properly, yes, but it's not a world-ender.

 

[Dryson]

I watched a video where plasma was created in a microwave by using two grapes.

If Sodium and Potassium are added into the EM drive as atoms but to the outside of the EM drive, could out gassing be created in the form of plasma being released as a result of the microwaves interacting with the Sodium and Potassium?

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

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[Dryson]

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I still don't think the Alcuberrie Drive is possible. Given the rate at which gravity functions , how would the AD overcome the constant gravitational pull on gravity that has already been folded?

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

I don't think FTL is achievable using the Alcubierre drive but some sort of sub light speed form of inertialess motor might be.

 

[publiusr]

It may be the other way around
“New warp drive research dashes faster than light travel dreams—but reveals stranger possibilities” from sciencex.com by Sam Baron

Grow crops overnight, build a huge battery

The best use of a warp bubble? Set off nukes in it, and let it “leak” out a mag-nozzle as a real torch ship.

The god of all rockets still reigns over this ‘verse. Thou shalt not ascend the heavens but by the pillars of flame. It is the Law. The Elon shall ride eternal, shiny and chrome...

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

Smells a bit musky but this is why I like science fiction - for imagining what might be possible and the consequences for mankind, whether good or bad. We do seem fixated on making the leap to warp technology and reactionless drive without using nuclear fission to make us go. I suspect it's because we're terrified of the monster we first set loose upon the world in 1945. However, this technology of releasing binding energy is readily available to us now. We might soon even tame fission's difficult brother, fusion, by leashing him with EM fields rather than with gravity as in the stars.

 

[publiusr]

I’m starting to think we’ll get stasis field tech before fusion

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

Warp bubbles might be able to act as stasis devices - causally disconnected so time passes more slowly inside one - even if not moving relative to the outside. I keep reading in the threads here that some great fusion technology has been developed but I'm still haven't seen the great leap forwards. Life's too short - I need one of those stasis bubbles to wait it out.