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Is Voyager Heavily Underrated?

I drifted off like you, but my rewatch made me reevaluate it. It is much much better than its rep...and objectively, when I really think about it, may be better in many ways than TNG in certain areas. It has some real hard SF concepts, and some really strong characters and character interactions that are allowed to develop in ways the TNG crew wasn’t.

I'm totally open to the possibility. When does it get there, though? By this point on the tng rewatch I was starting to see the light through the crap, but with voy (despite it actually having far less outright crap), like I said, it feels like I'm still waiting for the show to start.
 
I'm totally open to the possibility. When does it get there, though? By this point on the tng rewatch I was starting to see the light through the crap, but with voy (despite it actually having far less outright crap), like I said, it feels like I'm still waiting for the show to start.

Series three is probably where the seeds are sown, but there are some shoots earlier than that, especially with the Doctor (Who sort of dominates a fair bit later) buts worth paying attention to Tom and B’Ellana and Tuvok and Neelix. It’s a lot like tng, in that it goes into season four on a Borg two parter, and then settles into itself (though again, the Borg and seven will dominate a lot.)
The time travel two parter also isn’t too bad and sets stuff up for later. Apart from that it’s looking at some of the concept episodes...like the one with the planet that has accelerated time and Voyager is stuck in its atmosphere. That’s seriously good hard SF. Boy is much more serialised than people give it credit for, which is why I mention the two pairs earlier...it’s stories I only really appreciate as an adult though, and teenage me had jumped ship before they really got going. As an adult though...when VOY gets it right with its subtle arcs, it’s as good as Ds9.
 
I am not sure "underrated" is the right word. Voyager has its defenders and its detractors like every other Trek series. Maybe the detractors are more vocals at times and that makes some think that it is underappreciated, but I am betting that the people who like it don't change their opinion of it.
 
I don't know who rated it, so i dont know if they underrated it. I think it has a few good episodes. I think it has many more nongood episodes. I don't think I could ever be bothered to rewatch it entirely, again.
 
I don't know who rated it, so i dont know if they underrated it. I think it has a few good episodes. I think it has many more nongood episodes. I don't think I could ever be bothered to rewatch it entirely, again.

I am sure I couldn't. Some episodes are really really execrable.
 
I am sure I couldn't. Some episodes are really really execrable.
Fa6GNiy.jpg

Janeway and Paris' lovesalamanderchild is saddened by this. Warp 10!
 
I think it has many more nongood episodes.

Yup, people always mention Theshold when talking about VOY's weak points, but it really didn't have many bad episodes, just tons of middle-of-the-road fare. DS9 and TNG had their share of stinkers, but I can think of many episodes from each show that really pushed the envelope and/or did something special. VOY had relatively few stinkers but also very few standouts. Didn't even have an interesting alien species like the other shows. At most they had The Doctor as something original, but TNG had already kinda done the same idea.

I watched all of VOY and never really actively disliked it, and I can only think of a couple of standout episodes. Really liked Blink of an Eye, Year of Hell, and ... erm ... that's about it.
 
Yes, I would say that VOY as a series is underrated. People are too quick to condemn the entire show for "Threshold" and its ilk, and yet ignore other eps like "Nemesis" which I consider to be one of the best examples of Trek in ANY form.
 
In my opinion.
Positives:
Good character cast.
Some really good individual episodes.
Good arc for Seven.
Good premise.
Negatives:
No commitment to premise.
Lots of mediocre to terrible episodes.
Some major recurring villains that just didn't work.
Overly safe and unwilling to take any real risks.
Boring human characters, Neelix annoying.
Overuse of tropes and other things that just didn't make good TV (Holodeck malfunctions, nearly getting home then not, TNG cartoon version of Ferengi, etc)

And, I think this is how most people see it.
 
One thing about the premise that they did follow through was the rotation of recurring villains. The premise basically made it an absolute thing happening, and short of the Borg and Hirogen, villains from one season shouldn't appear in the next... at least, after the first jump forward in distance by Kes. Even then, midway through season 3 they passed the Nekrit Expanse, which even Neelix, as well travelled as he was, knew nothing past that point.

The Malon should not have been encountered in "JUGGERNAUT" since they used that Borg transwarp coil to move even further in distance than Kes pushed them.

They didn't make any major leaps forward after "THE VOYAGER CONSPIRACY", so there should have been more recurring villains.

And as much as I thought "HOMESTEAD" was a great Neelix episode and farewell for him, Talaxians should NOT have made it 40,000 light years away to where they ended up. I don't remember if anything was said in the episode that explains this... a wormhole or other anomaly that hurls them so far.
 
Yeah, nothing against Jeri Ryan. Her performance was fine.

VOY's handling of the Borg always annoyed me. They just followed the lame First Contact version. To be fair, I'm pretty sure they were fighting cancellation at a few points, so adding in more of an enemy people loved (even if they'd become pretty dull at that point) was probably something they felt they had to do.

I actually liked the FC version of the Borg, and the Queen concept aswell. Voyager did go to far with them though.
 
I think Voyager "suffered" by being the first spin off show to be network-based. As we'd see with Enterprise later on, Voyager was influenced by such mundane things such as ratings as executive input.

It's not easily identifiable but if you look for it you can see where it was "influence" and where it suffered.

With that said, we got seven seasons of the continuing Star Trek saga so that's a win.
 
Yes, I would say that VOY as a series is underrated. People are too quick to condemn the entire show for "Threshold" and its ilk, and yet ignore other eps like "Nemesis" which I consider to be one of the best examples of Trek in ANY form.

Funny, I didn't care for Nemesis. I don't know for example why they suddenly decided to make the aliens talk in that ridiculous and improbable idiolect or why it mattered that Chakotay hated the weird-faced people since they would never see them again. The whole thing seemed so contrived, it was painful to watch.
 
Funny, I didn't care for Nemesis. I don't know for example why they suddenly decided to make the aliens talk in that ridiculous and improbable idiolect or why it mattered that Chakotay hated the weird-faced people since they would never see them again. The whole thing seemed so contrived, it was painful to watch.
Nemesis was an episode about brain washing and the conditioning of soldiers trained to fight and kill the enemy.
 
Nemesis was an episode about brain washing and the conditioning of soldiers trained to fight and kill the enemy.
Yeah, I got that.

They said it one way or the other about six or seven times throughout the episode.

My point is that the execution was execrable.
 
Voyager is my personal al favorite of all the ST series/franchises.

Janeway all day. It was fun to see Q torment Picard. Janeway, however, has the best exchanges with Q, my favorite character.
"Has anyone ever told you, you're angry when you're beautiful?" Single eyebrow rise.
 
Also, Nemesis is one of the best ST episodes of all time. And who cares if anyone disagrees.
"Your fleet colors will get us all nullified."
 
I actually liked the FC version of the Borg, and the Queen concept aswell. Voyager did go to far with them though.

The queen idea was just such a fundamental change in the Borg. Felt that after that they became a little uninteresting, although obviously good for action.
 
In my opinion.
Positives:
Good character cast.
Some really good individual episodes.
Good arc for Seven.
Good premise.
Negatives:
No commitment to premise.
Lots of mediocre to terrible episodes.
Some major recurring villains that just didn't work.
Overly safe and unwilling to take any real risks.
Boring human characters, Neelix annoying.
Overuse of tropes and other things that just didn't make good TV (Holodeck malfunctions, nearly getting home then not, TNG cartoon version of Ferengi, etc)

And, I think this is how most people see it.

I agree with each of the positives, and will add one. The Delta Quadrant feeling very different in the first couple seasons, particularly season 1 with 1/4 of the produced episodes having nonhumanoid life. Also, there didn't seem to be any large empires or groups of species working together, either by cooperation or by force. The Federation in the Alpha Quadrant, the Dominion in the Gamma. I think that might have been an unintentional reflection of Voyager's situation by the writers, but it did set the quadrant apart.

Regarding the negatives...

I agree with the first two points.

Regarding the recurring villains, given the premise of the show, they would have to rotate them, since they are heading away from the Delta Quadrant. This is a double-edge sword, since ones that were interesting would have only a limited amount of time on the series they might get the rushed treatment just to have episodes under that race's belt. But the uninteresting ones, you can quickly get past them and move on to the next. My one complaint of this was from season 6 onward, specifically starting with "PATHFINDER" to the finale, they should have had more recurring ones, since they didn't make any great jumps toward home after "THE VOYAGER CONSPIRACY". The Kazon may not have been interesting, but at least having them recur in the first two seasons is consistent with the lack of great progress home. (I was sorry to see the Vidiians go. I thought they were great. And the Vaadwaur SHOULD have been recurring in those last two seasons. I loved their concept and execution.)

Overly safe/lack of risk taking, I agree.

Boring humans... some, yes. I think the problem was Chakotay and Kim... they just didn't know what to do with them. They each had some really great episodes, Chakotay a few more than Kim. But otherwise, they were background characters with a few lines and button pressing. DS9's secondary characters had more meat in their appearances than either of them.

Neelix annoying, no. Given what happened to his family and his rather tragic past, it makes sense that he would be so exuberant. "JETREL" was a necessary episode for him, because without it, he could very well have been seen as annoying throughout the rest of the series by virtually everyone... even me. The writers were smart to do that episode for him.

Holodeck issues... agreed, but to be fair, it was a trope that VOYAGER could get away with using as much as they did, since that was the crew's main way of relaxing and not going insane being stuck on a ship endlessly for years.

Nearly getting home but not... it was really only used in the first two seasons, and the "FUTURE'S END" two-parter was really the last time they did. While it was overdone at first, they were smart enough to stop when they did. Afterward, it was jumps forward home instead of the quick shot, so it did feel like earned progress.

The Ferengi... both times, their appearance was terrible. "FALSE PROFITS" and "INSIDE MAN" were terrible episodes. The latter should never have happened, but "FALSE PROFITS"... at least they got the episode out of the way, because if they didn't make it and the series ended, it would have been one of those "It was a story waiting to be told. Why didn't they?" situations in fandom.
 
Perhaps I don't spend enough time in this subforum, but if every conversation devolves into Voyager bashing, I could see why Voyager fans might think it is underrated.
 
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