Is Titan-A a refit of original Titan?

[MarsWeeps]

I've only watched the first 2 episodes of Season 3 one time each, so I may have missed this.

Is the new Titan-A supposed to be a refit of the original Titan or is it an entirely new ship? I remember reading somewhere that claimed it was a refit, but I don't see how it could be a refit of the Luna class, unless Luna class isn't considered canon (which is a possibility since I don't believe it was ever seen on screen.) If it was a refit, then I'm guessing the canon version of Titan was closer in design to Titan-A.

 

[Wouter]

It's clearly an entirely new ship (though in retro style) with no relation to Riker's Titan, but the show likes to pretend it's Riker's old Titan with a so-called "refit" (that leaves it with a completely different shape, different engines, diffirent weapons, different quarters and rooms, different class name, different mission to some extent, different everything) so they can have dialog in that sense between Shaw and Riker.

The real reason is probably that Matalas liked this particular design (from the Shangri-La, I think) and wanted to use it, while the Luna-class Titan as shown in Lower Decks looks very different. But for story reasons he wants it to be the same and they apparently didn't dare just pretend it was always this way (a la the Klingon make-up), so they invented this ridiculous "refit" business.

 

[Lord Garth]

I think the Titan-A is a totally new ship because there's a huge difference between a Luna Class Ship and a Constitution Class Ship. But, for whatever reason, maybe information from the previous Titan was transferred over to the new one. So it's like "same ship, different body". It's like transferring all your information from one cellphone to the next.

I think it's dumb, but that's the only way it works in my head. It's the only way Shaw saying he had to purge all of Riker's jazz from the computer makes sense to me.

 

[Lord Garth]

It's clearly an entirely new ship (though in retro style) with no relation to Riker's Titan, but the show likes to pretend it's Riker's old Titan with a so-called "refit" (that leaves it with a completely different shape, different engines, diffirent weapons, different quarters and rooms, different class name, different mission to some extent, different everything) so they can have dialog in that sense between Shaw and Riker.

The real reason is probably that Matalas liked this particular design (from the Shangri-La, I think) and wanted to use it, while the Luna-class Titan as shown in Lower Decks looks very different. But for story reasons he wants it to be the same and they apparently didn't dare just pretend it was always this way (a la the Klingon make-up), so they invented this ridiculous "refit" business.

Maybe they melted down the Titan and recycled its raw materials for the Titan-A.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

There's nothing that says Riker couldn't have commanded both Titans, is there? It's entirely possible Shaw took over command of the Titan-A from him.

 

[Dar70]

It's clearly an entirely new ship (though in retro style) with no relation to Riker's Titan, but the show likes to pretend it's Riker's old Titan with a so-called "refit" (that leaves it with a completely different shape, different engines, diffirent weapons, different quarters and rooms, different class name, different mission to some extent, different everything) so they can have dialog in that sense between Shaw and Riker.

The real reason is probably that Matalas liked this particular design (from the Shangri-La, I think) and wanted to use it, while the Luna-class Titan as shown in Lower Decks looks very different. But for story reasons he wants it to be the same and they apparently didn't dare just pretend it was always this way (a la the Klingon make-up), so they invented this ridiculous "refit" business.

This is the first time they showed the titan. It's a refit. Clearly stated in the episode. Neo-class...

 

[Yistaan]

Riker clearly wasn't commanding the Titan in 2399. Shaw says he's been in command of a Titan from 2396-2401, My guess is Shaw took the Luna Titan from Riker in 2396, commanded it for a while, then oversaw the refit/rebuild of the ship into the Neo Constitution Titan from circa 2400 to 2401. Michael Chabon in Season 1 stated that according to his idea Riker was in Nepenthe since 2391, so there may have been another 5 year captain between Riker and Shaw from 2391 to 2396.

 

[Sisko_is_my_captain]

I'm irritated by DSC deciding that a big refit merits a new registry letter, instead of only updating the letter when a new ship is named for a predecessor.

 

[Yistaan]

I'm irritated by DSC deciding that a big refit merits a new registry letter, instead of only updating the letter when a new ship is named for a predecessor.

My understanding was that due to the secretive nature of Discovery's history and on paper it being destroyed in the 23rd century, Starfleet officially went with the cover story and said this was an entirely new ship on paper even though no one of course in the know buys that.

 

[C.E. Evans]

I'm kind of on the fence about the Titan-A being a rebuild of the original Titan. If the original Titan was badly damaged at some point, and during her repairs some admiral made an arbitrary decision just to start over from scratch, then maybe the Titan-A rose from the ashes of the original.

Then again, there's Riker comment of the Titan-A having a new ship smell. Maybe Riker did command the ship originally, but she later had an interior upgrade after he left.

 

[Gepard]

There's no way the A is a refit of the Luna class Titan. At best, they moved over some hardware like computer cores or something.

I just wish the current creative team could get their concepts straight. The way both this and the Stargazer were presented seems like there's two or three different ideas competing for air, and the result is an unclear middle.

 

[Wouter]

There's no way the A is a refit of the Luna class Titan. At best, they moved over some hardware like computer cores or something.

I just wish the current creative team could get their concepts straight. The way both this and the Stargazer were presented seems like there's two or three different ideas competing for air, and the result is an unclear middle.

Indeed. It's a brand new ship, part of an entirely different class with an entirely different design. Matalas wants to have his cake (let it be Riker's Titan, and he did not command the Titan-A as he would have been retired already and Shaw has been commanding it for years already, apparently) and eat it (let it be a vessel with a totally different design) at the same time.

A "refit" doesn't mean that your turn a California-class in and out comes a Sovereign, as Freeman would say. It means getting new equipment/supplies. The creative team for Picard S3 is misusing the term.

 

[Tuskin38]

The creative team for Picard S3 is misusing the term.

So did the team for TMP.

 

[MarsWeeps]

There's no way the A is a refit of the Luna class Titan. At best, they moved over some hardware like computer cores or something.

I think I'll just go with the explanation that the original Titan wasn't Luna class, since it was never on-screen (unless it showed up in the cartoon series) but I don't consider that canon. I can understand the refit Enterprise being upgraded from the original, but the Luna Class ship and the Titan-A are so different that it can't be rationally explained that it's a refit.

 

[Lord Garth]

So did the team for TMP.

I think they twisted and bent the definition of a "refit" as far as they possibly could for the TMP Enterprise. The basic framework is probably the same, maybe they recycled the raw materials, and that's about it. I'm pretty sure the entire interior was completely gutted.

The only difference between the Refit Enterprise and the Titan-A is that at least the Refit Enterprise has the same framework. There's no way the Titan-A has the same frame.

So I'm going to guess Shaw isn't an engineer-type and horribly misused the word "refit" like sometimes people misuse the word "reboot". I like to think this is just Shaw not being able to get his terms right.

For the record: This might be an Unpopular Opinion, but I consider the Enterprise from the first three movies to be a different ship than the one from TOS. For all intents and purposes. It has to be at least 95% different.

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

So did the team for TMP.

I can't agree with this. At it's core, the refit could have been 60%+ the same frame/structure as the ship from TOS.

Remember the US carriers they converted from straight deck to angled deck.

 

[Tuskin38]

I think I'll just go with the explanation that the original Titan wasn't Luna class, since it was never on-screen (unless it showed up in the cartoon series) but I don't consider that canon

There's also a gold model of the Luna-Class Titan in the Titan-A's conference room, the Titan-A also uses its registry number.

It also showed up a couple times in Lower Decks which is considered canon by Paramount.

I can't agree with this. At it's core, the refit could have been 60%+ the same frame/structure as the ship from TOS.

Remember the US carriers they converted from straight deck to angled deck.

Decker called it practically a new ship.

Real life naval ships don't replace as much as the Connie refit did.

 

[MarsWeeps]

There's also a gold model of the Luna-Class Titan in the Titan-A's conference room, the Titan-A also uses its registry number.

It also showed up a couple times in Lower Decks which is considered canon by Paramount.

I think a good project for someone to tackle would be showing the transformation of the Luna class Titan into the Titan-A and make it believable. Maybe the framework of the Luna class is buried somewhere in there but again, what would be the point? It would be like transforming a VW Beetle into a Corvette.

 

[Tuskin38]

I agree it's a misuse of the word, but that's what the show said, so that's what we have to go with until another source retcons it.

 

[ChristopherPike]

Having seen the three models hanging in the lounge, is it possible this is a refit of the earlier Titan, pulled out of a museum? The current is hanging alongside the expanded universe one, subsequently made canon by Lower Decks, and lastly what seems to be a more structurally similar older class. It looks like the Luna one was the outlier and the -A refit is now some return to its original namesake maybe?