Is there any chance for DS9 legacy series?

Discussion in 'Future of Trek' started by Caeruleus, May 15, 2022.

  1. DarKush

    DarKush Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I don't think a Klingon centric project is a bad idea. I just think it's one I don't think would be easy to make into a successful multiyear series. Even when you consider books, the Klingon centric series from KRAD didn't last long. And that's a series coming from one of the most knowledgeable writers of Klingons. Perhaps there was behind-the-scenes publishing things that led to the early demise of the IKS Gorkon and Klingon series, but still, there's no strong record even in publishing, including comics. Novels and comics are definitely more niche areas where I think a Klingon focused series could be more easily (and I would think more successfully) explored.

    Regarding Ezri's quote, this is a 20 plus year quote, and while it would not be a bad starting point, the idea of a dying empire has also been the set up already for ST: Picard (even though that series has done little with it). I don't think an old quote is that compelling enough to build a series around. Further, Dax's words already prompted Worf to action, and he took out Gow'ron and put Martok in the chancellorship. While that might be a first step, it was a big one, and gave audiences a sense that the honorable Martok would right the ship. I do agree that Alexander might not be the strongest character to build a series around, however I think that would make him one of the best to attempt it with. It's the counterintuitive thinking of the stewards of franchises these days. Subvert expectations, and making Alexander a lead, if not the lead, would also allow them to explore issues of trauma, toxic masculinity, etc. in ways that it would be harder (but not impossible) to do with Worf. Alexander could be a more relatable character, because of him not fitting well into Klingon society, even more than Worf. Now, would fans want to see Alexander more than Worf? Very doubtful, but I could see the new Trek creatives being more interested in building a series around him than Worf. Further, a Klingon show can work without Worf. They could spin off a series about L'Rell or one about Azetbur after The Undiscovered Country. Or one about Martok, or they could use VOY's Torres or Miral Paris. They could just look at the Admiral Janeway/Miral relationship from VOY's "Endgame" for inspiration.

    You make a very good point about how much Klingons are a part of Trek's mythos, and how popular they are regarding all of Trek's aliens. I think it's them and the Borg that many non-fans might recognize right off as coming from the Trek franchise. However, why the Starship Enterprise is more important is because of the open-ended storytelling format each starship-based series provides. Worf on the Enterprise allows for a conflict of different alien cultures and perspectives. No doubt there would also be conflict in a Klingon series-there would have to be-however that's narrower than seeing various races working together, and sometimes not, on another Starship Enterprise. How would Worf, the first Klingon captain of the Enterprise-with all the symbolism behind that-interact with a crew under his command? It goes right back into the heart of Worf's conflict between his Klingon heritage/culture and his human upbringing. A Worf Klingon series also presents a similar internal challenge, but I also think in a narrower way. I'm not saying that's bad, but I don't think there's multiyear series potential there.

    I don't see an issue with Worf being forced out of the Enterprise necessarily, if that's where the story goes. If that leads to him commanding a Klingon vessel, so be it, we would both get what we think would be best. I think the progression aspect, of a Klingon commanding the Federation flagship, in light of the history we've seen on ENT, DISCO, and TOS (and imagine on SNW before that series is done) is too good to ignore for what it says about Trek, society, but also for the storytelling potential.

    Further I think the whole Soukara business is overblown. Worf not only went on to help defeat the Dominion but became the Federation Ambassador to the Klingon Empire and also played a role in stopping Shinzon. I think he's more than made up for his mistake there. And Trek doesn't have a long tradition of holding things over the lead's (or main/ensemble characters') heads like that.

    Spoiler from The Last Best Hope novel below:

    Also, based on the non-canon (for now) Picard prequel novel The Last Best Hope, Worf was made captain of the Enterprise. So there's literary precedent, in a PIC prequel novel, already that sets it up. Now all Paramount/CBS has to do is put it into live-action.
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2022
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  2. FederationHistorian

    FederationHistorian Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I think there is a concern that a Klingon show won’t have the depth and philosophy like a show set in the Federation, and it will be more an action show. I don’t personally see it that way; I think a Klingon show could have has much philosophical depth as TOS & TNG, or even more than those shows. It depends on how its written.

    A dying empire can’t really be explored with the Federation, since it’s confirmed that the Federation lasts until the 31st century and was being rebuilt in the 32nd century. Populists movement that question the state of the Federation of the 25th century can be explored – movement that try to return to the Federation of TNG S1 and movements with darker intentions - but not full blown collapse.

    A dying empire can’t be explored with thee Cardassians either; they’ve likely reformed into a democracy after the Dominion War.

    And the Romulan Empire can’t be looked at, there no Romulan Empire left to examine.

    That’s where the Klingon Empire comes in, examining the reforms under Martok. Why the reforms don’t work, especially if Martok and Worf cleaned house behind the scene?. And that the Klingons are being forced to confront changing their long-established ways.

    I feel that an Alexander show would spend a lot of time meeting the cousins of Alexander and the cousins of Worf, Alexander reflecting on his mother, and his parents meeting ion Samrin’s Planet and being a member of the House of Martok more than explore Klingon society. It would be all about creating melodrama and family drama.

    Of course, this might resonate for the younger generations of today, so who know?

    Maybe. But it would draw more viewers with Worf than without. Only a Kahless show could possibly compare.

    A L’Rell show would be the worst option, and I like L’Rell. She would be better off as a recurring character for SNW. Or being sent to the far future to join the Discovery crew.

    Azetbur would work as a mini series, to show why there was still Federation-Klingon hostilities after TUC; maybe it had to do with the Federation being reluctant to form an alliance with the Klingons unless they freed most of their subject species. It would help to flesh out the Lost Era at the very least.

    Miral would as the very least want to meet Worf, since he’s the first Klingon to join Starfleet and thus a role model for her to look up to. There’s no reason Miral could not have both Janeway and Worf as mentors.

    There are some good things about a Worf captaining the Enterprise. It would be good for featuring various character (Sisko’s and Kasidy’s kid, Molly ‘O’Brien, Naomi Wildman, Elnor, the rest of the Stargazer crew in PIC, easier to have TNG/DS9/VOY/LD cameos). And if Grilka is made to be Worf’s wife, then we see her living on the Enterprise.

    What’s lost by making Worf captain the Enterprise instead of a Klingon ship is Worf deciding to reform the Klingon Empire from within using everything that he’s learned from the Federation. Worf could still try and reform the Klingon Empire from the outside looking in, but it would not be the same as Worf having to interact with a Klingon Empire resistant or afraid of change on a daily basis and only wanting to solve their problems with a Klingon outlook. Or even being aware that changes need to be made, but are unable to make them. And Worf persists with his mission with a Federation perspective, disregarding the usual Klingon outlook that he brings.

    Maybe Worf captaining a Klingon ship is a season long arc only. But I still think it has a place.
     
  3. Elias Vaughn

    Elias Vaughn Captain Captain

    I don't think Worf should captain a Klingon ship.

    He's already an ambassador, let him be there in an advisory capacity. He's barely Klingon anyway.
     
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  4. The Knappos

    The Knappos Captain Captain

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    I wouldn’t mind a First Minister Kira Nerys mini.

    How you’d get anyone else back, I don’t know. Maybe if Keiko was visiting Bajor after studying so much of its plant life, she could drag Miles along.

    As to plot, I really don’t mind so long as Nana was given the chance to let out an exasperated “Listen to me” to some annoying Vedek or the Kai or antagonist, I’d be happy.
     
  5. FederationHistorian

    FederationHistorian Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Being ambassador does still give Worf a reason to deal with Klingon stories while being a captain of the Enterprise, if Starfleet wants him to go on a mission into Klingon space.

    Worf – captaining the Enterprise, which makes a stop over to DS9.

    Jake Sisko & Kasidy Yates – living on Bajor.

    Garak & Bashir – living on Cardassia.

    Quark – a lucrative business opportunity on DS9 brings him back.

    Odo – whatever situation requires him to be in a liquid state, or disguised as a person or an object.

    O’Brien – brought back because his knowledge of the station’s systems are needed for the latest refit.

    Ezri – promoted to station commander? Or made an ambassador to Bajor?
     
  6. bdub76

    bdub76 Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    BS5 is getting a reboot so why not?
     
  7. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    So you want a reboot of DS9? :vulcan:
     
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  8. bdub76

    bdub76 Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    I'd like to see the story continued like Picard, which is really a Next Generation sequel with some Voyager stuff thrown in due to 7 of 9. The novels that came out should provide lots of story idea like the novels that came out when Doctor Who was rested in the 80s.
     
  9. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    At the risk of sounding highly contrarian but if the novels already did it why bring it back? They won't use the novels, and will likely disappoint the fans no matter what.
     
  10. dupersuper

    dupersuper Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I wouldn't say that to his face.

    That's exactly what I'm afraid of...
     
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  11. bdub76

    bdub76 Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    Come on. It's geriatric Trek. Paramount can sell it to the Hallmark Channel or GAC after it streams on Paramount+.
     
  12. F. King Daniel

    F. King Daniel Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I prefer nostalgia Trek myself...
     
  13. FederationHistorian

    FederationHistorian Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    If its anything like the first 12 episodes of PIC, it will be watchable.
     
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  14. dupersuper

    dupersuper Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I mean, I did watch those, so I suppose that's technically true...
     
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  15. Seraphim

    Seraphim Admiral Admiral

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    How about a DS9TNG - Deep Space Nine The Next Generation Series?
     
  16. Styleset

    Styleset Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    I’ll never not want to see Avery Brooks play Benjamin Lafayette Sisko again. Whatever concept he approves for his character I will accept and lap it up!

    Thank you.
     
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  17. McCoy's Disco Collar

    McCoy's Disco Collar Commander Red Shirt

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    Amen. They did Sisko so dirty, he really needs to be brought back to fix that.
     
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  18. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    He died sacrificing himself.

    Yup, that's being done "dirty..." :shrug::wtf:

     
  19. McCoy's Disco Collar

    McCoy's Disco Collar Commander Red Shirt

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    Avery Brooks objected to Sisko choosing to abandon his children and leave them without a father, a racist stereotype often leveled against the Black community.

    The producers overruled the actor's objections, adding only a weak and vague promise that he would return someday. A promise they never let him make good on.

    So yeah, he was done dirty.
     
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  20. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I don't agree. I think it is a perfectly acceptable resolution to a hero's trip.

    I like it from a spiritual journey perspective.