I'm not, especially considering that we are talking about utopian theory of bright & better future, where is no oppression, expluatation, ect.
Is it the Federation, or Just Earth that Doesn't Use Money
- Thread starter DeimosMasque
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I'm not, especially considering that we are talking about utopian theory of bright & better future, where is no oppression, expluatation, ect.
That doesn't make any sense. Whether or not communism WORKS or not is a question of real world applications and experience, but trying to figure out what communism IS would require you to cite a source that a) actually knows something about it and b) isn't halfway up his own ass with smug self importance. Ayan Rand fails both of those criteria.
If the Federation doesn't use money, how do they compensate the military personnel in Starfleet?
Free Chateau Picard booze
No wonder the Klingons did not want to join
Yeah, that's always bothered me. They often forget the Federation is a multi-species organization especially when the characters start pontificating. Encounter at Farpoint is a prime example. Q wants to send humanity to it's "room" til it grows up. Great but what about all the other species in the Federation? Are they grounded too? Will they move the capital off Earth? Replace all the humans in Starfleet?
Yeah that is annoying, its the real life version of assuming all humans look like pale Caucasians in the entertainment industry. It tasks me...(said in the spirit of Kahnnnnnnnn!).
"Inalienable -- if you could only hear yourselves -- human rights? The very name is racist. The Federation is nothing more than a homo-sapiens only club."
On a ship where all the senior heads of departments were human minus one. Yep, Starfleet needs some Affirmative Action.
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That has been my idea for a while now. Humans have gotten rid of money, because their tech produces everything easily.
But this now this bring us back to the usual conclusions;
Sisko is serving his customers for free. Data's housekeeper is working for free too. The guy or lady that removes waste extraction or whatever they call it, is doing it for free.
I'm not disputing that earth doesn't use money, only trying to know how do we explain this part? This is the most baffling part of the no money concept.
Counselor Deanna Troi: 'I am only half Betazoid. My father was a Starfleet officer."
For the skeptical, if anyone wants any direct, indisputable onscreen confirmation of this, there it is!
But this now this bring us back to the usual conclusions;
Sisko is serving his customers for free. Data's housekeeper is working for free too. The guy or lady that removes waste extraction or whatever they call it, is doing it for free.
I'm not disputing that earth doesn't use money, only trying to know how do we explain this part? This is the most baffling part of the no money concept.
Counselor Deanna Troi: 'I am only half Betazoid. My father was a Starfleet officer."
For the skeptical, if anyone wants any direct, indisputable onscreen confirmation of this, there it is!
Well, it may be that service for society provide the additional access to the resources - more than just basic goods. For example, basic food, housing, transportation are free. But if you want something non-standard - like your own spacecraft, for example
- you need to "work its price".
Probably the same for beachfront property and country homes with horses. Unless Captain Kirk got himself a free horse and a free manor in the country to go with it.Well, it may be that service for society provide the additional access to the resources - more than just basic goods. For example, basic food, housing, transportation are free. But if you want something non-standard - like your own spacecraft, for example
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Agreed, it would be logical to assume that.
So, the whole system, IMHO, work like that. Any Federation citizen have a free access to basics - decent housing, food, transportation, ect. But if he wanted more than just basics - for example, as mentioned above, if he want to own the country home with horses - he need to work on some job long and effective enough, to obtain access to this "extra resources". There isn't a "fixed prices", probably; for any different kind of job, the exact value is different (for example, Starfeet duty are clearly considered very "valuable for society"). I.e. the logic is - "to obtain more for himself, you need to do more for others".
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I like to live is my own "Trek bubble" where there is money, they get paid and so on.
That's why everyone is after a promotion, more money for a higher ranked officer.
Just today, watching a poker scene in TNG it makes some sense that they're playing with their own money, otherwise it wouldn't hurt so much to loose or place huge bets.
Kinda odd, I know, but works for me.
That's why everyone is after a promotion, more money for a higher ranked officer.
Just today, watching a poker scene in TNG it makes some sense that they're playing with their own money, otherwise it wouldn't hurt so much to loose or place huge bets.
Kinda odd, I know, but works for me.
All I know, is I would be happy living in my crappy little house if I could stay home every day and paint and fence. Have plenty of art supplies, fencing equipment, food, water and coffee.
I would only ever aspired to achieving the "perfect painting".
I would only ever aspired to achieving the "perfect painting".
I wish I didn't have to use money.
I made it about 3/4ths of the way through Atlas Shrugged before I gave up. Character after annoying character giving speeches to each other that drag on for 10 pages. Ugh. Rand taught me that the real reason that I didn't start a billion dollar company from nothing is because I'm a lazy freeloader that deserves to starve.
So ... money?Well, it may be that service for society provide the additional access to the resources - more than just basic goods. For example, basic food, housing, transportation are free. But if you want something non-standard - like your own spacecraft, for example
These "no money" threads always end the same way, people come up with explanations that are really just "people work for money" without using the word money.
Well, probably the best description would be "personalized money"
You could use them to buy what you need. But ONLY you could use them. You could not give them to other person, you could not put them into bank and recieve percentage, you could not use other peoples money at all. All prices is customized specifically for your moneys. That's more clear?
You put some limitations in but you're still saying people work so that they can use their (personalized) money to buy stuff they want.Well, probably the best description would be "personalized money"
That's more clear?
Problem with that theory is Earth people do use money in the show, people on Earth (not necessarily Humans) buy things, people from Earth have money and buy things.
Figuring out what communism is, would be a simple matter of observing it in action, how it manifests itself in the real world.
In terms of what it actually is, it's pretty irrelevant how it's described in a book as a theory.
Which in Troi's mind was all that was required to inform another person that her father was Human.
If you can't transfer the "money" to another person, how would you use the "money" to purchase things?
How would you use it as a medium of exchange?
Could you expand your idea?
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Actually, NO one in the future uses money. It's all a satire they put on for our simple 20th/21st century dispositions. Zephram Cochrane became a depressed drunk when he realized that his dream of dollar signs and retiring to a tropical island couldn't come true due to warp field geometry physics.
Because you don't transfer the "money" to another person. You use them to obtain what you need from society. Basically, the "money" here is the indicator of how much of society resources you could divert for personal use.
The point is not the money by themselves. The point is, that money's could not be accumulated by any other means than productive work on behalf of society.
@DeimosMasque
It should be noted that "the money" in question in that OP conversation is 5 strips of gold-pressed latinum that Nog kept in a locked box under the bed. So that conversation seems use the word money meaning currency.
It should be noted that "the money" in question in that OP conversation is 5 strips of gold-pressed latinum that Nog kept in a locked box under the bed. So that conversation seems use the word money meaning currency.
it's not really a problem. Earth has a "single payer economy" where private currency is basically optional and resources are allocated on a "take one/leave one" basis. Because they have an abundance of everything, and no reason to worry about anything.
Nothing is EVER that simple. There are confounding factors unique to individual circumstances, cultures, societies and organizations that implement it. It's sort of like how most major religions degenerate into political parties and/or militia banners when all of its members are poor and angry.
Again there's the analogy to major religions. You can describe the core beliefs of, say, Roman Catholicism from a study of scripture, commentaries and papal mandates. But then you run into episodes like the Spanish Inquisition, or the edict from Cuban bishops that raping ones own slaves is not technically a sin (or could be considered a blessing since her potential children would be liberated from the "curse of ham") and you'd be forced to think "What the fuck, Catholicism?"
Actually, I think Zephram Cochrane became a depressed drunk when he realized future generations would forever give him credit for Lily's invention no matter how many times he tried to set the record straight and that Lily was never going to forgive him for it.
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