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Is it possible to whittle down all the Canon Issues down to 3x Time Lines?

We can explain it by the Enterprise being stuck in the "temporal wake" they get to observe the timeline in which the Borg are successful. They start in timeline A where the Borg didn't go back in time, briefly observe timeline B where the Borg went back but they didn't follow, then they end up in timeline C where they did follow. At the end of the movie they simply move forward in C. (What they should've done is just stay in timeline A where everything was hunky dory! :) )
 
His attorney was writing scripts?

That is the rumor that has been going around for a long time now.

We can explain it by the Enterprise being stuck in the "temporal wake" they get to observe the timeline in which the Borg are successful. They start in timeline A where the Borg didn't go back in time, briefly observe timeline B where the Borg went back but they didn't follow, then they end up in timeline C where they did follow. At the end of the movie they simply move forward in C. (What they should've done is just stay in timeline A where everything was hunky dory! :) )

I figured they used their quantum signature to return to their original timeline.
 
I do wonder how much of TNG was actually Roddenberry's, and how much was other people? We know he had TOS production folks (Fontana, Gerrold, Justman, Milkis) on the early part of season one. We also know his attorney was running a lot of interference between Gene and the production, and even allegedly was rewriting scripts.
So let's see, breaking out my copy of The TNG Companion, supplemented with other stuff I've read elsewhere:

-The characters of Will Riker and Deanna Troi were more or less recycled from the concepts of Will Decker and Ilia in the Phase II Writers' Guide. The character of Jean-Luc Picard likewise took a fair amount from Phase II's older, wiser Captain Kirk.

-David Gerrold suggested that the first officer lead the landing parties/"away teams." This originated in his book The World of Star Trek.

-Robert Justman suggested having a Klingon on the bridge, the new Enterprise having families aboard, and having an android as a regular character (who Justman suggested could provide a Spock-like mystique for the new series).

-Bob Justman was also the person who really pushed for Patrick Stewart to play Picard, eventually overcoming Roddenberry's objections.

-Data was a mashup of the character of Questor from the TV movie pilot The Questor Tapes (co-written by GR and Gene Coon, with a novelization from D.C. Fontana) and the Phase II concept of Spock's replacement Xon experimenting with human emotions in order to better work with humans.

-The character of Geordi La Forge was inspired by a quadriplegic fan named George La Forge, who got to know Roddenberry and many other Trek creatives at cons in the 70s. (Significantly, David Gerrold's 1970s ST novel The Galactic Whirlpool has a passing mention of a Starfleet admiral named after George La Forge.)

-The character of Tasha Yar was inspired by the space marine Vasquez from the 1986 movie Aliens.

-Although Wesley was originally conceived as a boy (using Roddenberry's middle name), Justman pushed for the character to be a girl, Leslie, instead. The backstory of Wesley's father being killed on a mission that Picard commanded came from "Justman and the staff."

-Roddenberry was the one who insisted that the new phasers could not be pistol-shaped, eventually resulting in the TNG "Dustbuster" look.

-Roddenberry was also the one who said that the Starfleet characters could not have personal conflicts with each other, maintaining that humanity had evolved past that by the time of TNG. (This was possibly a remnant of his "New Humans" concept from the Phase II Writers' Guide and his TMP novelization.)

-Roddenberry wanted the Ferengi to all have huge penises (indicated by large codpieces on their costumes) and for Deanna Troi to have four breasts. (D.C. Fontana talked him out of that one, saying, "Gene, most women have trouble enough with just two.")

-Most of the series bible was written by David Gerrold, with certain bits being obvious Roddenberry touches (The description of Beverly Crusher having "a walk like a striptease queen" was recycled from the bio of Yeoman Rand in the TOS Writers' Guide, IIRC).

-D.C. Fontana wrote the initial hour-long version of the pilot "Encounter at Farpoint," dealing with the mystery of Farpoint Station. When Paramount insisted on a 90-minute or two-hour pilot, Roddenberry rewrote Fontana's script, adding in the character of Q (an updated version of Paul Schneider's Squire of Gothos from the TOS episode of the same name, but a godlike being judging the Enterprise crew was one of GR's go-to stories to the point of monotony.)​

So LOTS of people contributed to TNG's development. But I personally find it very telling that the pilot episodes that sold for both TOS and TNG were written or largely written by people other than Roddenberry.

BTW, there was a lawsuit from Gerrold and Fontana about creator credit on the TNG series, and considering their contributions to the series bible and the series pilot, I'd say that they had an excellent case. The case was eventually settled and I believe that neither Gerrold nor Fontana are allowed to talk about the terms of the settlement. (If someone else here knows more about this, please correct me.)

And yes, GR's lawyer Leonard Maizlish was rewriting scripts and ghostwriting memos in GR's name, neither of which he was allowed to do since he was not a producer, a staff writer, or a member of the Writer's Guild. He was pretty universally loathed by everyone except Roddenberry and he's a big reason most of the TOS staffers left TNG within a year. If IIRC, Maizlish was one of the people escorted off the Paramount lot the day after Roddenberry died, but I may be mixing him up with Richard Arnold or Susan Sackett there.

Since David Gerrold wrote the Series Bible, I like to think of him as more the creator of TNG than Gene Roddenberry. In a TNG to Batman analogy, I think Gene Roddenberry is Bob Kane to David Gerrold's Bill Finger. I bet most of what Gene Roddenberry contributed was just carried over from Phase II and re-purposed.
Seems like a pretty good reading of the situation to me. GR started the process, but most of the stuff that really set TNG apart came from other people.
 
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I have the Phase II Writer's Bible. It came with a book about about the series I bought in 1997. Star Trek Phase II: The Lost Series, by Judith Reeves-Stevens and Garfield Reeves-Stevens.

I wish I had the 1st TNG's Writer's Bible, so I could cross-reference between the two.
 
If IIRC, Maizlish was one of the people escorted off the Paramount lot the day after Roddenberry died, but I may be mixing him up with Richard Arnold or Susan Sackett there.
Actually, I thought Maizlish was forbidden from the set by the second season, with security personnel instructed not to allow him on the lot.
 
Actually, I thought Maizlish was forbidden from the set by the second season, with security personnel instructed not to allow him on the lot.
Then I probably am mixing him up with Arnold and Sackett, both of whom were fired after Roddenberry passed.

Thanks for the correction. That post took me far longer to write than I initially planned, and so I let double checking a couple of things slide.
 
My feeling is that maybe there could be something like the bald dudes from Fringe, but maybe the likes of Future Guy from Enterprise, or Captain Braxton from Voyager, advanced time travellers in the background sewing up events to create an optimal timeline. Every time a piece of continuity gives way to another piece of continuity, it's because some time agent engineered it to change. For undisclosed reasons. ;)

I mean, the reason continuity means jack in Doctor Who is because, ultimately, there's an excuse baked into the format. If you want to think about it that way, the only continuity that matters is within the current serial. Every time the TARDIS lands or takes off, it could be a totally different timeline the Doctor finds himself in....
 
The only timelines I believe it are the ones that are stated by the creators/writers of the shows.

If CBS (or whoever owns the rights) decided a couple years down the line to make DSC a separate timeline, then it becomes a separate timeline and I would have no problem with that.
 
Well, there was one undeniable impact of the events in "First Contact", specifically leaving behind a few Borgsicles, who caused some small damage upon thawing. I dug up and reread a bit I wrote after just seeing ST:09 about the Trek timeline(s). Boiling down seven pages of scrawls on a legal pad, this is what I came up with. Four timelines, 1."Prime": That which we saw on TOS and it's filmspawn. Also including TNG, DS9, and VOY up to the events of the film "First Contact". 2. "Prime-A": This would be the timeline incorporating any changes resulting from the events of "First Contact". 3. "Timeline E" This timeline results from any changes to the timeline occurring in ST:ENT. While Archer was a captain in "Prime" and "Prime-A", his adventures in those timeline were not the same as those chronicled in "Enterprise" as, beginning with the very pilot, things took a turn due to the Temporal Cold War and early contact with the Klingons. 4. "Timeline K". Which began when the Narada emerged from the future.
Needless to say, none of this factors in ST:DSC at all.
 
I really can't conceive of there being a history that can be changed, except for the ones that are "fixed" anyway. So if Sisko looks like Gabriel Bell in a history book in season 4 of DS9, he would have looked like Gabriel Bell in that same history book in season 1 of DS9. It happened in the past.

If Picard and crew were were going through the computer files in season 1 of TNG, and came across some rare photos of Zephram Cochrane and friends in Montana, they might see some pictures of themselves. In fact, Riker may have grown the beard because of those photos!:eek:

Can it possibly happen any other way? I can't wrap my head around it.

I get that there are out of universe reasons why in ST09, Spock created a new universe, and I'm okay with that, but for it to make sense, it would mean that all other Star Trek before that; the "prime timeline," never existed, just like the Kim and Chakotay that made it home without Voyager, and sent a message back to seven of nine never existed.

There can only be one timeline.
 
The contents of Star Trek disagree with this.
*There can only be one timeline at one time.

If a new, alternate timeline is created, the original is wiped from history. If the timeline is restored, the new, alternate timeline is erased.
 
*There can only be one timeline at one time.

If a new, alternate timeline is created, the original is wiped from history. If the timeline is restored, the new, alternate timeline is erased.

My thoughts are if you’re comfortable with it as a single timeline, go with it. If you’re comfortable with seeing it as a multiverse, go with that.

Enjoy Star Trek on your terms.
 
*There can only be one timeline at one time.

If a new, alternate timeline is created, the original is wiped from history. If the timeline is restored, the new, alternate timeline is erased.

That seem to be an "unparalleled" opinion to me. In TNG "Parallels" Worf traveled from one alternated universe to another, and in the finale [of "Parallels" added 11-17-19] duplicate enterprise+D's from thousand of alternate universes appeared. Those alternate universes co existed at the same time.

And as I wrote in my post # 86 on page 5 of this thread:

It is my belief that it is logical to believe that almost every episode in a highly episodic series like TOS happens in an separate alternate universe, different from the universes of almost every other episode. With the exception of episodes which are sequels to other episodes, of course.

So with about 800 or more Star Trek episodes and movies, there should be many hundreds of episodes which happen in their own separate alternate universes or in alternate universes shared with only a very few other episodes, and then a group of maybe 100 or 200 episodes that share the same alternate universe due to being parts of a number of overlapping story arcs. This last universe could be considered the main timeline or main alternate universe of Star Trek, even though the only thing which makes it special is the much larger than usual number of episodes and movies in it.
 
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I agree, Star Trek is proven to be a "Multi-verse" on several occaisions.

As to what is the "Prime Universe", what is "Alternate" can be up to fan contention / interpretation.
 
“Parallels” states there are hundreds of thousands of timelines where the Enterprise continues to exist in TNG season seven.
That's different than an alternate timeline. Worf was crossing to different dimensions/universes, and not because of time travel shenanigans. It can't be used to make null almost time travel story that Star Trek has done. Also, it was written by the "weird shit guy' who specializes in wacky thought experiments and twilight zone episodes. It's only peripherally related to this discussion anyway.
and in the finale duplicate enterprise+D's from thousand of alternate universes appeared. Those alternate universes co existed at the same time.
Just 3 appeared, from the same universe and same timeline.
 
Just 3 appeared, from the same universe and same timeline.

It was more than three...

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Also, it was written by the "weird shit guy' who specializes in wacky thought experiments and twilight zone episodes.

Doesn't make it any less canon.
 
It was more than three...

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He said "and also in the finale." I assumed he was referring to All Good Things, where the 3 enterprises run into each other. Sorry

To be clear, I'm not talking about an alternate universe like the mirror universe, or the situation in Parallels. I'm talking about when someone travels back in time. Everything in First Contact happened hundreds of years before season 1 of TNG. Those characters don't know it yet, but it already occurred. It's ancient history. There was never a time during TNG where the events as seen in First Contact haven't already happened. In fact, they happened hundreds of years before TOS.
 
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He said "and also in the finale." I assumed he was referring to All Good Things, where the 3 enterprises run into each other.

Ah. I think he meant the end of the episode and was being flowery with his language. But I can see the confusion. :techman:
 
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