The Federation was probably eating up its small neighbors so fast that the President and Cabinet couldn't attend all the ceremonies.
Is it more important to you that Trek deepens lore, or explores new worlds?
- Thread starter eschaton
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The Federation was probably eating up its small neighbors so fast that the President and Cabinet couldn't attend all the ceremonies.
Good point. And held on a starbase! It would make much more sense for the induction ceremony of a new Federation Member State to be held at an outdoor venue, with the President and planetary head(s) of state/government signing the documents in televised public view.
Given the rising tensions of the Dominion on the horizon, and the recent hostilities with the Klingons, I can see why having it on a starbase, as well as not having top shelf Federation brass being there, take precedence over PR fluff.
Plus, Sisko was quite instrumental in helping Bajor, so the Bajorans likely requested the ceremony take place there. Given the importance of the wormhole and everything else, I actually it made better sense being on DS9.
Plus, Sisko was quite instrumental in helping Bajor, so the Bajorans likely requested the ceremony take place there. Given the importance of the wormhole and everything else, I actually it made better sense being on DS9.
I don't agree; inducting a new world into the Federation is a big deal that means an evolution of everyone's "national identity," so to speak. Large, visible public ceremonies are important psychological transition points for the population; there's a reason the United States inaugurates new Presidents outside the U.S. Capitol, and there's a reason the United Kingdom coronates new Monarchs in large venues like Westminster Abbey. Bajor is the one joining the Federation; its people deserve to have the ceremony happen on their world, where they can see it, instead of on a space station on the other side of the system that used to be a symbol of colonial oppression by the Cardassians.
Plus, if the Republic of Bajor is a new Federation Member State and you know war with the Dominion is just over the horizon, bringing the President to Bajor for the ceremony is a really strong statement of Federation power and resolve, and gives you the practical opportunity to bring in a large fleet of starships alongside whatever the presidential starship is (Starfleet One?) and have them stay in the Bajor system after the ceremony is over, to make a statement about Bajor's integration into the Federation and Starfleet's commitment to their protection.
Edited to add: Obviously the Emissary and the Kai would both need to be there alongside the First Minister and the President.
Even if for whatever reason neither the Federation President or the Bajoran First Minister could be in attendance, you'd still think there'd still be someone from both governments present. Instead the ones signing the papers are the head of Bajor's dominant religion and a Federation military officer. Sorry, "explorer."
Kinda needs both.
This thread is fascinating and probably explains much about how people respond to the various iterations of Trek. Personally, I have little interest in the “lore” as people seem to be using it. I thought Discovery’s deep dive on the Klingons was deadly dull, but I find many of TNG’s Klingon eps the same. The Borg got less and less interesting the more we saw them. I don’t need to visit Andor or explore the origins of the Andorians’ secret ice powers. It’s fine if it happens in the course of a story, but, on its own, I don’t find that sort of thing of particular interest. All the alien stuff, all the lore, all the filling-in of backstory is interesting to me only to the extent which it lets us explore our characters, their values and the human condition. I think that’s why I like TOS so much — it uses its sci-fi trappings for metaphorical purposes rather than as ends unto themselves. Some folks these days see that as a failing, but, to me, that’s a big source of the appeal.
Totally agreed. In fairness, I was re-watching "Rapture," and there was one guy in civilian clothes sitting down next to all the captains and admirals on the Federation side of the table. On the Bajoran side -- I think I remember seeing a Bajoran in non-religious garb. But the Kai does seem to have some level of diplomatic authority; Kai Winn (well, Vedek Bariel acting through Kai Winn) negotiated the key treaty with Cardassia on Bajor's behalf in "Life Support," and the Kai assumed the office of First Minister on an interim basis until an election could be held when the sitting First Minister died in "Shakaar." Bajor doesn't seem to have a separation of church and state. So, I suppose having the Kai represent Bajor at the signing ceremony isn't so far-fetched from a legal standpoint.
Well, that and the demands of drama. Sisko needed to be able to very quickly reach the signing ceremony just in time to give his Ominous Prophetic Warning (TM) that Bajor mustn't join the Federation yet, and it becomes a bit of a stretch if he has to take a runabout across the star system.
I don't actually disagree -- I don't just like lore for lore's sake; Star Trek is a work of art, not a collection of data points to be used in constructing Memory Alpha articles. But, I do enjoy it when they explore these nooks and crannies of the universe and do so in a way that tells those same kind of interesting stories about the human heart you're talking about.
I'll have to disagree with you in full right there. That's a story demanding to be told.
This. If I need a deep dive story, there’s usually a novel or comic that covers it somewhere.
I just finished “Drastic Measures” by @Dayton Ward, great deep dive into Tarsus IV incident, along with nice characterizations of Georgiou and Lorca.
Okay, I understand Sci that you probably know more about political matters than most people here, can you see a reason that it was done the way it was?
A relatively low key event, and that this would be the standard for a new member becoming a part of the federation's body and community?
It's been sixty odd years since a state joined the United States, was there a grand ceremony, or just the signing of papers?
Not that the federation would have to be a exact copy of any governing body that ever existed on Earth.
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That's because, in an epic crossover, Mister Freeze visited Andor centuries ago and bestowed the gift of icy goodness to them... before doing the Batusi with Catwoman, since she had dated the Joker and Penguin and now was looking to chill out with someone really cool...
Yeah, I'll admit I'd want to see that too... Just where'd he get the time machine from?
Alaska and Hawaii did not join the United States in 1959. The USA bought Alaska from Russia in 1867 and annexed the Republic of Hawaii by a treaty of annexation in 1898. What happened in 1959 was that the political status of Alaska and Hawaii changed from territories to states.
The only states that became states at the same time as they were acquired by the USA were Vermont and Texas, which were previously independent countries. All other states were either the original 13 colonies or parts of various territories for various periods of time before becoming states - for as long as 104 years in the case of Oklahoma.
Isn't Texas still an independent country ?
I mean, the real reason is that it's a creative conceit for the sake of the drama. Sisko needed to get a vision, be on the verge of death, burst into the ceremony just before the signing, and tell the Bajorans not to join. It's hard to plausibly do that if he has to get on a runabout and wait three hours to reach the other side of the star system. Plus, it's hard to do that kind of big ceremony on a 1990s syndicated TV budget.
In-universe, dialogue establishes that the Bajorans requested the ceremony take place aboard Deep Space 9 out of recognition for Sisko's role as the Emissary. I think it's also highly probable that it was held in such a small space rather than on the Promenade because of security concerns -- everyone knew war was coming and that Founder infiltration was a real risk. We can probably probably rationalize the absence of the First Minister and the President as a concession to security needs.
I'm not sure -- but I also don't think it's an applicable precedent. The admission of new states to the U.S. was historically mostly a function of a European-descended settler-colonial population displacing any existing Native populations, establishing political hegemony over the local area, and then asking the larger hegemonic polity to admit them as part of the empire. It was essentially a process of white conquest and then white hegemony.
By contrast, the basic conceit of the Federation is that it does not displace the local culture, and the local culture and the Federation join as consensual equals; to me, that suggests a strong need to establish and celebrate a new unified cultural identity for the Federation and the local Member State, to ensure that a sense of unity will bond the new Member and the Federation together and keep them loyal to each-other.
For whatever it's worth, the DS9 Relaunch novels followed up on Bajor's admission.
At first, the signing ceremony was initially going to be held on the Promenade in the presence of the First Minister and a prominent Federation Councillor, but then First Minister Shakaar was assassinated by a Trill bodyguard who determined that Shakaar was being possessed by one of the Parasites from TNG "Conspiracy." This led to the uncovering of a second major Parasite incursion, based on Bajor, and to the revelation that the Parasites were an exiled mutation of the Trill Symbionts. Once the incursion was defeated, the final admission ceremony was held in a public square in Ashalla, the Bajoran capital. The new First Minister was present; I can't remember if the Federation President was present, but the Federation Councillor was present IIRC.
According to the case of Texas vs. White in 1869, they can't secede. This was upheld by the Supreme Court in 2006.
Its more important that Trek is entertaining using a sci fi futuristic setting
Entertaining seems to be eighth on the list for most folks behind...
1. Canon
2. Canon
3. Canon
4. Canon
5. Canon
6. Canon
7. Canon
And
8. Gene's Vision!!!!!!
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