Is it just me, or is Star Trek going the wrong way?

Discussion in 'Future of Trek' started by LunaticBurnout, Oct 9, 2020.

  1. dupersuper

    dupersuper Commodore Commodore

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    I still can't get past the part where they included Michael in the meeting planning how to capture the Red Angel when they thought she was going to be the Red Angel.

    For me:
    1. LD Season 1
    2. LD Season 2
    3. DSC Season 3
    4. DSC Season 2
    5. DSC Season 1
    6. PIC Season 1
     
  2. Ghouleddie74

    Ghouleddie74 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    PIC Season 1 was a winner for me until the craptastic finale. Wow, if that episode hadn't had Data's final death and that touching scene where Picard keeps him company as he fades from existence it would have been an almost total dud.
     
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  3. donners22

    donners22 Commodore Commodore

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    Hm...if that was a worst to best list, I might agree (though I'd probably have PIC S1 ahead of DSC S3.
     
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  4. Ometiklan

    Ometiklan Captain Captain

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    I largely agree about the finale of Picard. It was a let down, though not terrible, for me. Upon a rewatch I was less unhappy with their crappier choices. Really loved the Data stuff both times.

    Now as for PIC season 2, everything up to the new trailer was very promising for me: extra writer time (due to Covid) to learn from the failures of season 1, new show runner (who I was told created a really good 12 Monkeys show, though when I watched it I could only get through 2 seasons), the addition of Q, and more opportunity to look at Picard's legacy like Tapestry/All Good Things, etc. But then the full trailer hit and I was quite disappointed. I understand they were actively trying to do their own Star Trek IV-like story, but there is just very little in the trailer that hit me well.

    Also, I keep thinking I don't mind action in Picard (and Discovery), but the more I see, the more I just want them to skip all the stupid fight scenes and just have more character-driven stuff. I want more of the quiet, contemplative show that they promised at the beginning. But I guess I keep falling for parts of Trek show premises that end of being ignored (Yoyager being a mixed crew struggling to cooperate and struggling with limited resources; Enterprise showing the pioneering days in space, but instead has the equivalents of phasers/shields/transporters/etc. from episode 1 though with slightly "antiquated" names; Picard being a meditation compared to Discovery's bullet of a show.)

    For example: rewatching the fights in PIC season 1 with the Romulans - not only were they not that impressive in terms of choreography/staging, they were also fairly stupid in terms of plotting. For example, what was the plan of the Zhat Vash to capture Dahj? To beam in and accost an incredibly strong android in hand to hand combat in hopes that she either isn't already "activated" or doesn't immediately become activated? It's just a pointless mess of action for action's sake. Not to mention that the Romulans speak English out loud for no reason - they also do so making it clear they know Dahj can "activate" but in no way can they handle it when she does. They also fail in every subsequent fight throughout the season: the death of Dahj in the rooftop fight, Picard's chateau fight, the Borg cube fight vs Elnor, and the final fight of Narissa and Seven. Some super secret spy organization they are. They are the Worf on the Ent-D in terms of fighting wins.) Trek should save the time, effort, and money put into creating these crappy hand to hand fight scenes and instead do something simple with a phaser shot or two and spend their effort putting some heart behind the fights. Look at instead, say, the Luke vs Vader fight in Empire vs practically any fight in the Prequel Trilogy - the original was all about the character motivations, while the later were technically superior but emotionally empty displays.
     
  5. Hades Temperature Checker

    Hades Temperature Checker Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Does this just mean "pretty to look at" because I don't think the sword skill was superior necessarily.
     
  6. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Actually, a reason can be worked out. When the fight first starts, one Romulan speaks in his native language, only for one of the others to snap "speak in English." Presumably they were speaking the native local language to obscure the fact they are Romulan, a common tactic for special ops teams today who are trying to obscure their identity.
     
  7. Ometiklan

    Ometiklan Captain Captain

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    Yeah, I think it was better sword skill. Not that I am an expert or anything, but it's pretty clear their was minimal fight training back in the early 1980s for Empire. Ray Park is an expert martial artist and McGreggor and Neeson definitely did a bunch of training. And it just looks a lot better.

    Hmm, I didn't remember that part. Instead of either option, I think i would have had the guys either better trained (to not speak any Romulan, or use some kind of short range, encrypted subspace comms - since they are wearing helmets already, there should be no reason to have any audible communications in the room). Plus since they weren't planning on leaving any survivors, nor any trace elements at all, and because they arrived in high-tech tactical uniforms and fired "Romulan" energy weapons, it hardly seems like they had any real plan to pin it on "locals". But whatever the showrunner's intentions, the scene comes off as "bleh" to me. The failure of the strike team only makes sense if they don't know Dahj could be "activated", which is belied by the, likely, ADR dialog.
     
  8. Hades Temperature Checker

    Hades Temperature Checker Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I will respectfully disagree.
     
  9. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    It's just good operational protocol for a clandestine strike team, don't speak in your native language and risk giving away a clue to your identity. Regardless if you plan on leaving survivors or not.
     
  10. Ometiklan

    Ometiklan Captain Captain

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    agreed, in theory it is better than going in all obvious, but it is just executed poorly (by either the Romulans in universe or out of universe by the production crew).
     
  11. TIM Thomason

    TIM Thomason Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Lower Decks and Prodigy check those boxes, then.
     
  12. Eckauskas

    Eckauskas Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Neither Lower Decks nor Prodigy check any boxes for that comment because neither are sequels in the same sense TNG was a TOS sequel. I like LD but it's Futurama in Starfleet uniforms. And, unless I'm mistaken, Prodigy is for children.

    God knows why I keep having to explain this, as if I've never heard of Lower Decks or Prodigy before.
     
  13. The Return of Zombie Cheerleader

    The Return of Zombie Cheerleader Moar Nu Trek Pleeze Premium Member

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    Of course it is. Being a cartoon or a comedy doesn't change that. Neither does Prodigy being a
    'children's show".
     
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  14. TIM Thomason

    TIM Thomason Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    They are "sequel series set on a Federation starship", as is Discovery Season 3, but I understand that Discovery as a whole is an odd duck, so we might want to discount it purely on the basis of its origin as a Prequel. Picard is a sequel series, but it's not set on a Federation starship, so naturally falls out of your description.

    You have to move the goalposts though, to suddenly discount LD and Prodigy. Prodigy, apparently, while set on a Federation starship, won't be centered on Starfleet officers (a la Picard), so that's a good way to discount that show.

    That just leaves Lower Decks, which is so similar to TNG and TOS, that it leaves me trying to think about ways to properly separate the three. Perhaps the fact that LD is centered around the "lower decks" (i.e. the whole premise) is enough of a differentiator from its parent shows. But, just like on Discovery, that difference seems to be fading as we have more and more focus on Upper Deck characters.

    Really, Lower Decks as the spiritual successor to the Berman era routine, is probably the closest to what you're looking for, since everything else in the pipeline, rumored or nearly-realized, aren't fitting your exact qualifiers.
     
  15. Ghouleddie74

    Ghouleddie74 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    LD and PGY are sequels to TNG. Format and humor level have nothing to do with any of that.
     
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  16. Eckauskas

    Eckauskas Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Folks, you'll come across a hell a lot less obnoxious and patronising if you just accept that Lower Decks and Prodigy aren't what I'm looking for. I'm looking for something that's not a cartoon. Just accept that, rather than trying to convince me that LD and Prodigy ARE what I'm looking for. It's really tiring having complete strangers tell me what I'm looking for.
     
  17. Ghouleddie74

    Ghouleddie74 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Then they're not your thing. But they're still sequels.

    Speed 2 is an absolute disaster of a film and I won't go near that abomination but it's still a sequel.
     
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  18. TIM Thomason

    TIM Thomason Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    That's what I was doing, I thought. If you want to ignore what I said, and call me obnoxious, fine. I thought I was on your side.

    It's too early to tell what Prodigy will be about, and you and I are both vocal fans of Lower Decks. I never mentioned one word about cartoons or comedic level. :shrug:
     
  19. Ghouleddie74

    Ghouleddie74 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I for one find Trapper John, M.D. a much less interesting and inferior series to M*A*S*H and the one-hour dramatic format set nearly thirty years after the latter series mentioned does less for me on an entertainment level. But you'd best believe that the former is a sequel to the latter.
     
  20. Ricky Spanish

    Ricky Spanish BillJ Premium Member

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    Because people disagree with you and you are posting on a discussion board... if you don’t want disagreement you should probably try a blog.

    They are still Star Trek series. Discovery and Picard aren’t what I’m looking for, they are still Star Trek series’.

    It is all one big happy multiverse from where I sit.