Is Ghostbusters 2 really that bad?

[Anwar]

Yes, the slime itself is supposed to be neutral. As in, whatever kind of slime it becomes is due to the emotions it's exposed to. Being in NYC the slime became negatively charged "concentrated evil", but the problem was where the slime came from to begin with before it got negatively charged.

I assumed it was all the ectoplasm leftover from the ghost attacks in the first movie, all the goo being cleaned up and dumped in the sewers grew to the slime river when it all reacted with the negative emotions of the NYC inhabitants.

But the explanation that it was the side-effect of the Gozer Cult's experiments also fits.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

I assumed it was all the ectoplasm leftover from the ghost attacks in the first movie, all the goo being cleaned up and dumped in the sewers grew to the slime river when it all reacted with the negative emotions of the NYC inhabitants.

But that would make the Ghostbusters directly responsible for all the bad stuff that goes down in Ghostbusters II -- not the best position to put your protagonists in if you want them to retain any audience sympathy.

I really missed Peck from the first movie. I'm sure that Kurt Fuller's character of Jack Hardenmeyer was originally supposed to be Peck.

 

[Trekker4747]

Yeah, the idea that the GB's were sued into oblivion makes no sense in the shadow of the events of the first movie? I mean, it's their fault a supernatural demigod read Ray's mind, violated the laws of energy and matter to bring a 10-story tall marshmallow monster into existence and to prevent, you know, the end of the world the GB's had to destroy part of an apartment building?

The second movie makes no sense. And, IIRC, in the cartoon the idea was that they (the cartoon versions) were the REAL Ghostbusters and that the movie even existed in their universe and was even a Hollywood take on their origins. (An episode features the Ghostbusters dealing with a movie about them being made) another episode even deals with the events that took place directly after the encounter with Gozer. The cartoon as I recall took a bit of a cue from the second movie but I think it was still supposed to be its own thing.

But I've got the Time Life set too, beautiful set and a fine cartoon series.

I also liked the "Extreme Ghostbusters" series which I think tried to adopt some darker elements similar to the first few seasons of TRGB. Some elements of it I didn't quite like but it was, overall, good. If another movie gets made I'd much rather see that kind of movie, a mostly new crew and I'd also like to see a more serious and darker tone taken to it. It can still have some comedy elements but if you watch the first movie it's got some dark themes and tones to it. But I'd really like to see a "dark" GB movie fairly light on forced comedy moments. (The scene with the toaster in the second movie is just terrible.) If they can't get everyone on board to do a decent third movie then I'd like to see a "Extreme Ghostbusters"-like new crew brought in for a trilogy of fairly-dark action movies. And no Ghostbusters visiting hell, no Venkman as a ghost, both of those options are lame.

 

[Anwar]

But that would make the Ghostbusters directly responsible for all the bad stuff that goes down in Ghostbusters II -- not the best position to put your protagonists in if you want them to retain any audience sympathy.

I really missed Peck from the first movie. I'm sure that Kurt Fuller's character of Jack Hardenmeyer was originally supposed to be Peck.

Oh, I don't mean the leftover remains of the Stay-Puft man being poured into the sewers and becoming the Slime River. I meant all the ectoplasm goo a ghost would leave behind when it goes through walls and stuff (like Slimer).

As in, before the Ghostbusters starting busting them the Ghosts left behind all the ectoplasm goo from their running around. The goo gets cleaned up by folks who don't know what it is and poured down the drain, where it all gathers into the Slime River. Basically, folks not knowing what the stuff was (before the Busters started up) and disposing of it properly creates the River. The Slime River was supposed to have been building up for decades after all.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

Yeah, the idea that the GB's were sued into oblivion makes no sense in the shadow of the events of the first movie? I mean, it's their fault a supernatural demigod read Ray's mind, violated the laws of energy and matter to bring a 10-story tall marshmallow monster into existence and to prevent, you know, the end of the world the GB's had to destroy part of an apartment building?

Why doesn't it make sense? New Yorkers only had the Ghostbusters' words to go on that any of that even happened. No one else went up to the roof of Dana's building with them, and Dana and Louis would not be able to provide reliable witness testimony. I can totally see a P.O.ed New Yorker suing the Ghostbusters for getting marshmallow dumped all over him. And politicians LOVE to find scapegoats.

 

[Trekker4747]

I think the multi-story tall marshmallow man that came out of thin air should be a hint that the Ghostbusters were not lying.

 

[Anwar]

Well, if folks bought into Peck's "It's all lights and hallucinogens!" they'd have the choice of thinking:

1) It's all FX and drugs put in the air, and fake goo splattered around

OR

2) There really was a big marshmellow guy going Godzilla on the town.

Sure, 1 is way out there, but if the only alternative is 2 folks would go for 1...

 

[the G-man]

It had moments but it suffered from a poor set up (the idea that no one in NY believed the events of the first film occurred), the lack of a threat comparable to Gozer (Peter MacNichol and a monosyllabic German just didn't cut it) and too much sentimentality (both Oscar and the Statute of Liberty gag). The original Ghostbusters is one of the greatest film comedies ever. The sequel isn't even as good as some of the better episodes of the cartoon.

 

[the G-man]

Yeah, the idea that the GB's were sued into oblivion makes no sense... in the cartoon the idea was that they (the cartoon versions) were the REAL Ghostbusters and that the movie even existed in their universe and was even a Hollywood take on their origins...

Actually, the "Boogeyman" episode of the cartoon, with some tweaking, would have been a better sequel than what they did.

 

[Trekker4747]

Yeah, the idea that the GB's were sued into oblivion makes no sense... in the cartoon the idea was that they (the cartoon versions) were the REAL Ghostbusters and that the movie even existed in their universe and was even a Hollywood take on their origins...

Actually, the "Boogeyman" episode of the cartoon, with some tweaking, would have been a better sequel than what they did.

Yeah, there was also an episode of the cartoon where a guy gets some magical flute that'll bring about the end of the world, he has a partner that's sort of an Igor/Quasimodo type. That episode with some tweaking would've made a nice sequel. (It ends with the Ghostbusters needing to overload their packs, but before they do the Igor guy manages to convince the Villain of the Week to undo all of the chaos he's caused before the Evil Deity of the Week can make his foothold.)

 

[Trekker4747]

Well, if folks bought into Peck's "It's all lights and hallucinogens!" they'd have the choice of thinking.

It seemed like Dickless was just a random city stooge with an axe to grind and not someone the city was taking seriously. It first goes in there and is denied access by Venkman to see their containment unit, he goes in later after somehow getting warrant (with no evidence whatsoever that the Ghostbusters are doing anything illegal or have anything illegal) and shuts down their equipment doing nothing at all to anyone.

Later at the Mayor's office his argument amounts to nothing. He makes claims and has nothing to back them up with, the Ghostbusters have the city in chaos, walls at precincts bleeding and the Mayor's trusted advisor -a priest- pretty much saying shit is going down. Really, Peck had no leg to stand on and just a bunch of assumptions.

 

[Owain Taggart]

The biggest mistake GBII made was the villain. He just wasn't very intereresting.

If GB ever returns to the screen, it might be viable to make an interconnected trilogy, in the style of the Trek movies (WoK, VH, SFS). It's a shame that it hasn't happened like that already.

 

[Christopher]

Yeah, there was also an episode of the cartoon where a guy gets some magical flute that'll bring about the end of the world, he has a partner that's sort of an Igor/Quasimodo type. That episode with some tweaking would've made a nice sequel. (It ends with the Ghostbusters needing to overload their packs, but before they doo the Igor guy manages to convince the Villian of the Week to undo all of the chaos he's cuased before the Evil Deity of the Week can make his foothold.)

Oh yes, "Ragnarok and Roll." Even though it was a comedy, my favorite episodes tended to be the ones like this that were more dramatic and heartfelt.

 

[God of Gor]

Yeah, GB2 isn't the great by most standards. Still, it is a fun movie even if slow paced at times. I'd rate it as a fairly decent popcorn flick.

 

[Admiral Shran]

Well, if folks bought into Peck's "It's all lights and hallucinogens!" they'd have the choice of thinking.

It seemed like Dickless was just a random city stooge with an axe to grind and not someone the city was taking seriously. It first goes in there and is denied access by Venkman to see their containment unit, he goes in later after somehow getting warrant (with no evidence whatsoever that the Ghostbusters are doing anything illegal or have anything illegal) and shuts down their equipment doing nothing at all to anyone.

Later at the Mayor's office his argument ammounts to nothing. He makes claims and has nothing to back them up with, the Ghostbusters have the city in chaos, walls at precincts bleeding and the Mayor's trusted advisor -a priest- pretty much saying shit is going down. Really, Peck had no leg to stand on and just a bunch of asumptions.

That's probably the one problem I have with the first movie. Where's was Peck's evidence?

It was obvious he was just pulling stuff out of his ass. I even thought that when I was watching the moive as a kid.

And actually, he didn't even have a warrant to search the Ghostbusters' premises. All he had was 1.) a cease and desist all commerce order, 2.) a seizure of premises and chattles order, 3.) a ban on the use of public utilities, and 4.) a federal entry and inspection order - all of which I assume are much easier to obtain than an actual search warrant.

Then, in the scene in the mayor's office, he says they use lightshows and drugs to get people believing in ghosts. Again, where's the evidence? It seems to me that the Ghostbusters have more than enough grounds to sue Peck for slander, if not have him actually arrested for false accusations and unlawful entry and seizure of their property.

 

[Trekker4747]

Well, if folks bought into Peck's "It's all lights and hallucinogens!" they'd have the choice of thinking.

It seemed like Dickless was just a random city stooge with an axe to grind and not someone the city was taking seriously. It first goes in there and is denied access by Venkman to see their containment unit, he goes in later after somehow getting warrant (with no evidence whatsoever that the Ghostbusters are doing anything illegal or have anything illegal) and shuts down their equipment doing nothing at all to anyone.

Later at the Mayor's office his argument ammounts to nothing. He makes claims and has nothing to back them up with, the Ghostbusters have the city in chaos, walls at precincts bleeding and the Mayor's trusted advisor -a priest- pretty much saying shit is going down. Really, Peck had no leg to stand on and just a bunch of asumptions.

That's probably the one problem I have with the first movie. Where's was Peck's evidence?

It was obvious he was just pulling stuff out of his ass. I even thought that when I was watching the moive as a kid.

And actually, he didn't even have a warrant to search the Ghostbusters' premises. All he had was 1.) a cease and desist all commerce order, 2.) a seizure of premises and chattles order, 3.) a ban on the use of public utilities, and 4.) a federal entry and inspection order - all of which I assume are much easier to obtain than an actual search warrant.

Then, in the scene in the mayor's office, he says they use lightshows and drugs to get people believing in ghosts. Again, where's the evidence? It seems to me that the Ghostbusters have more than enough grounds to sue Peck for slander, if not have him actually arrested for false accusations and unlawful entry and seizure of their property.

Well, I assume to get all of those orders/paperwork to go in there, shut down their utilities and tell them to stop doing business he had to have some sort of judicial order. IIRC the police even helped him in the process. I do wonder why the ConEd guy needed to enter the building to shut their power off? Couldn't that be done on the street or at the plant or something?

But, yeah, as a kid it bothered me too. I mean, really, where was Peck's evidence to make all of these outrageous claims? Wouldn't Occam's Razor also apply here? Either the Ghostbusters have managed to cause millions of people across the city to experience delusions of seeing ghosts and other incredible phenomenon, even able to cause this phenomenon to occur before they first get contact with some people and they further caused chaos throughout the entire city that resulted in things happening like the "walls at the precinct bleeding" or ghosts are real and the Ghostbusters managed to achieve a paranormal investigation and elimination process.

Well, Dickless, which answer is simpler? For the Ghostbusters to pull off the stunts Peck is claiming they are they'd have to be pretty damn good con-artists. I'd be really interested to see what happened between the first movie and the second movie that caused the whole city to turn on them, including the mayor. What happened at the end of the movie, a demigod pretty much one step away from ruling the world, would be pretty difficult to hand-wave away. Either the lawyer(s) the Ghostbusters got really sucked in the resulting lawsuits or everyone in NYC went insane at once.

Interestingly, if the recent videogame counts as "canon" (and it was made in part by Aykroyd and Ramis and by some accounts was said to be a defacto third movie) following the events of the second movie the Ghostbusters were made a vital city service on par with the fire department.

 

[Gojirob]

The Ghostbusters Rap is lame and I don't know how it could even near the greatness of their theme song from the original movie.

Ghostbusters 2 is another example of franchises trying to "cash in" on children being interested in the original movie resulting in a wider franchise. Forgetting that, you know, the movie that pulled them into the Franchise in the first place wasn't a camp eye-rolling fest.

GB2 isn't a terrible sequel it just forget some of the things that made the first movie so good, tries too hard to play to kids while at the same time trying to... Well I don't know what they were going for in the "domestic comedy" between Peter and Dana.

Watch some of the first few seasons of "The Real Ghostbusters" cartoon show (mostly the episodes that would've aired before GB2 came out) and you'll see that even the cartoon took the subject matter and franchise in a darker, more serious, tone.

I always thought that the treatment of the Lovecraft Mythos on TRGB would have been a good basis for a GB3 film.

As to how the GB's went down in court, I'll bet they had the same ultra-schmendrick lawyer Robin Williams had in 'Mrs. Doubtfire'. That guy just looked like a 'hire him--he needs the work' kind of attorney.

Peter : Did you--ya know--even go in and DISPUTE any of their arguments?

Lawyer : Well--so many of the facts were completely beyond dispute. How can I dispute that which is well beyond dispute?

Peter : Egon, get the packs and a trap. No WAY this guy is a real lawyer.

 

[Timby]

And actually, he didn't even have a warrant to search the Ghostbusters' premises.

4.) a federal entry and inspection order

The answer is in the question.

In any event, the Ghostbusters were using unlicensed nuclear accelerators, and Lord knows what kind of equipment for the containment unit, and given that Peck, as a representative of the EPA, was stonewalled by the Ghostbusters (through Venkman) when an inspection request was made, it's pretty standard to then go to the court.

Really, if I were a judge, and a government official came up to me and said, "Hey, there are these guys, they wear backpacks with wands that can blow shit up left and right, they're supposedly catching and storing 'ghosts,' we have no idea what the fuck is going on outside of shit blowing up left and right, and they're refusing to let us look at anything," I'd be pretty inclined to grant a warrant. All Peck would have to do would be to show some information on the Sedgewick Hotel incident, wherein there was a tremendous amount of property damage, done in a completely unregulated manner. You could make a pretty convincing argument that four dudes running around New York City with mega-blow-shit-up backpacks was a hazard to public safety, ghosts or no ghosts.

That said, we're all over-thinking a comedy.

 

[Trekker4747]

I'd still think there'd have to be something to "prove" they're doing something wrong or illegal. And, personally, I doubt that the packs were "nuclear" in any traditional or typical sense and when Venkman said that he was just being a bit glib.

That said, this was the pre-USA PATRIOT Act days so Peck would need more evidence than "I think these guys are doing something wrong" to get a warrant to do all of the things he does. At very least Geiger counter results or something to show that the Ghostbusters are spreading and storing dangerous radiation in places. Hell, you'd think if they did think that the Ghostbusters were doing or storing dangerous things they wouldn't just let him march in there and shut things off willy-nilly.

"I think these guys are doing something illegal." shouldn't be enough evidence to let Peck get away with the things he was getting away with. All of the eye witness reports of "ghosts" also should've put some favor to the Ghostbusters' court.

At the same time, maybe Peter should have been a bit more... cordial or less defensive with Peck during their first encounter. If Peter had plaid along and shown off the containment unit and shown that it was safe then maybe Peck would've backed off. Still, Peck's word and claims should not have been enough to get all of the orders through for him to march in there and shutdown GBHQ.

Oh, and whatever the powercells of their equipment is, what powers them, or what-not it must've been okay enough, or finally licensed, for them to be willing to show off their equipment to Omni magazine. (As seen in the montage in the middle of the movie.)

So either Venkman's statement of them being "unlicensed particle accelerators" was an exaggeration or they got licensed and regulated by the time they were popular enough to be featured in a magazine.

 

[Cyke101]

Yeah, there was also an episode of the cartoon where a guy gets some magical flute that'll bring about the end of the world, he has a partner that's sort of an Igor/Quasimodo type. That episode with some tweaking would've made a nice sequel. (It ends with the Ghostbusters needing to overload their packs, but before they doo the Igor guy manages to convince the Villian of the Week to undo all of the chaos he's cuased before the Evil Deity of the Week can make his foothold.)

Oh yes, "Ragnarok and Roll." Even though it was a comedy, my favorite episodes tended to be the ones like this that were more dramatic and heartfelt.

Amazing too is that this episode came out in the middle of the second season, when really it had all the elements of a series finale: great animation, a sense of urgency, devastation of the planet, hell on Earth, the race against the clock, nothing going right at all, a suicide run by our heroes, Egon's confession of love, and a rather mature character arc (albeit for a guest character -- the antagonist, no less!), and all in the span of 22 minutes. It's amazing what the cartoon could get away with at times.

Anyway, as for the movie, it's merely OKAY, but fairly mediocre. Even as a child I had watched the original so much that I could spot the similarities in II:

-the first battle
-the montage
-the government stooge hampering our heroes
-the Ghostbusters incapacitated by officials
-the mayor calling our heroes as a last resort
-the main villain being blasted to death

In hindsight, perhaps the last part is the least forgivable. The original had the foreshadowing of crossing the streams and the risk that came with it (and it's now a catchphrase), but the second one didn't... apparently the final solution was to merely blast him. Yes, the crowd's good cheer weakened Vigo, but to me the transition from the crowd to the PEW PEW just didn't feel like it came together. I love me the proton packs as much as the next fanboy (honestly, the proton beam is one of the most beautiful sounds in the universe -- especially TRG Season 2's blast, which came from the films), but I kept thinking, "That's IT?"

Of course, there IS that great line: "Ray, could you move out of the way, we'd like to shoot the monster." How many times have we ever cheered on other movie heroes like Arnold or (hah) Sigourney right before they do the same thing? One of the great strengths of the Ghostbusters was their ability to fight things that before seemed invincible, the stuff of intangible nightmares and unspeakable terrors, when you knew ordinary weapons wouldn't work.