Is Data too ”inexperienced” sometimes?

[JesterFace]

There are some occasions when Data interprets a conversation totally wrong.

Example: Data asks a question and gets a reply: ”Don't look at me”. The person he asked doesn't have the answer but Data doesn't know that but instead turns away, watching the other direction.

I'd imagine that all his time among humans, phrases like that would be familiar to him, but he just doesn't get it...

Is Data a bit too dumb sometimes?

It can be funny though when Data completely misunderstands what someone else is saying...

 

[JirinPanthosa]

It would make a little more sense if Data had not established he's been in Starfleet for decades. You would think he'd understand human colloquialisms by now, at least if they always mean the same thing and don't rely on conceptual understanding of metaphor.

 

[Phoenix219]

Contractions should have been a very simple and easy algorithm for him to utilize, as well.

 

[tharpdevenport]

This is exactly what I pointed out in another thread (I don't' recall the name at the moment).

He was found in 2338. Joins Starfleet in 2344. Joins the Enterprise D in 2363. That's almost twenty years of experience in Starfleet and amongst humans and other races. No to mention "The Most Toys" where Geordi is going through Data's personal affects and finds a case with various high-honor awards from Starfleet.

Yet he can't whistle, he's never asked about what death is, and is incredibly naïve on the Enterprise D.

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

Contractions should have been a very simple and easy algorithm for him to utilize, as well.

He utilized them three times in his conversation with Admiral McCoy

 

[thewanderingjack]

OP, definitely.

But I think some of it is... rationalizeable (explainable maybe too strong a word).

Before the academy, he was a subject of study, mostly of how he works (physically)... they were more interested in his brain than his mind. In a scientific setting like that, I can see euphemism, idioms, etc not really coming up, or more to the point, not something he'd have to really deal with himself, and maybe when it came up and he asked, he was just waved off with some "oh its a human thing." Of course I think working on figuring out and understanding his mind and getting him to understand humans should've been in there, but oh well.

He describes himself as being isolated/ostracized at the academy, so that explains a continued lack of that sort of interaction.

All this was from his age 1-6/7, obviously accelerated by our standard, let's imagine he's about the same as a genius level 12 yo at this point, in terms of maturity/social understanding etc...

Then he goes to serve... where I imagine he continues to be ostracized (following the pattern of general human attitude we've seen thus far). It took him 15 yrs to make Lt Cmdr and then wasn't promoted again (was going to be 16 years later in 2379, to first officer) despite having shown great command ability many times (like when he was given temporary command of the Sutherland).

In many ways I picture him as childlike still, having been stunted by all that. At least up until he joins Enterprise, so that's what we're seeing.

I also parallel it to to someone learning a second language. I've met many people who even after decades in the US (having come as adults) don't know or understand certain idioms and such.

 

[JesterFace]

Maybe Data kind of gets different expressions, but just isn't sure how to react to them and questions himself whether he interpreted something correctly.

 

[Jayson1]

Let's not forget that he went through a time in his life were he thought about, basically rebooting himself which would have been akin to suicide. It's also possible he has spent more time around alien officers pre-TNG and also when you live in world with so many cultures working together I think it could be easy to confuse common language because everyone might have different ways of speaking.

Jason

 

[Mojochi]

I have to think most of Data's many years in Starfleet fell into some kind of highly isolated posts or roles, that limited his experience working in close proximity with diverse groups of people, especially Humans, & that his 4 citations came relatively later on in his service. It's even quite possible that much like he did with a number of his officers, Picard was some renaissance type of captain that took people who might not have otherwise gotten a fair shake, & put them into roles that were a rather bold & even risky call among the rest of the fleet. We also don't know the range of Humanity that he'd been exposed to. It's possible that he got posted with other races more often, or that if he was posted with humans, none of them ever really warmed up to him in the way the ENT-D crew did, which opened up an entirely new avenue of growth for him.

 

[The Wormhole]

Hell, Data's whole routine basically falls apart after The Big Goodbye where after absorbing the Dixon Hill canon, he understands and correctly uses 1940s slang and sayings. What, there's nothing from modern times he could similarly absorb to understand what the hell his crewmates are talking about that he's always questioning them on?

 

[thewanderingjack]

Hell, Data's whole routine basically falls apart after The Big Goodbye where after absorbing the Dixon Hill canon, he understands and correctly uses 1940s slang and sayings. What, there's nothing from modern times he could similarly absorb to understand what the hell his crewmates are talking about that he's always questioning them on?

That's true, given that example, otherwise my thought wold be, well, he apparently reads a lot of stuff literally (I guess we could see/argue if that fits this ep). But then again that's questionable, since he could also watch movies etc like this right? That should make it more clear to him what people "mean." Oh well.

 

[The Wormhole]

That's true, given that example, otherwise my thought wold be, well, he apparently reads a lot of stuff literally (I guess we could see/argue if that fits this ep). But then again that's questionable, since he could also watch movies etc like this right? That should make it more clear to him what people "mean." Oh well.

It's especially jarring when you consider that Data doesn't sleep (or rather, didn't prior to receiving his dream program) so that automatically means Data has more free time than everyone else on the ship (on account of they have to sleep). So really, Data could easily have caught up on all the literature, movies holoprograms and known all the slang and metaphors Geordi or Riker or whoever said without having to ask them about it, given he learned how to interact in the 1940s so quickly.

 

[thewanderingjack]

It's especially jarring when you consider that Data doesn't sleep (or rather, didn't prior to receiving his dream program) so that automatically means Data has more free time than everyone else on the ship (on account of they have to sleep). So really, Data could easily have caught up on all the literature, movies holoprograms and known all the slang and metaphors Geordi or Riker or whoever said without having to ask them about it, given he learned how to interact in the 1940s so quickly.

Yup... we could still see him misunderstanding, but not being so unaware... HAHA maybe he could in fact then be shown trying too hard, while misunderstanding a lot.

 

[thewanderingjack]

Follow up to OP, which is the best "outsider" character? Spock, Data, Odo, or Seven (I guess Worf, the EMH Dr and T'Pol and/or Phlox might also count).

I like Odo.

Spock... was only semi-outsider in-universe... he served that role but was pretty well acquainted with human stuff.

Data has the poblems discussed here.

Seven was prob my second fav.

Worf et al all seemed to have more experience/familiarity with human(oid) stuff, they were "other" but not as much.

 

[Jayson1]

When Data says things like in "The Big Goodbye" or when he does Sherlock Holmes I wonder how much he even understands what he is saying. How many times have we seen him talking like a character only to switch back to his normal self on a dime. Look at his role as romantic lover to Jenna D'SOra in "In Theory." He is talking like a man trying to be romantic but when she asks him what he is thinking it's basically stuff like a tech problem, food supplements for Spot and so forth. I suspect that is also the case when he is acting in Crusher's plays.

Jason

 

[Jayson1]

Follow up to OP, which is the best "outsider" character? Spock, Data, Odo, or Seven (I guess Worf, the EMH Dr and T'Pol and/or Phlox might also count).

I like Odo.

Spock... was only semi-outsider in-universe... he served that role but was pretty well acquainted with human stuff.

Data has the poblems discussed here.

Seven was prob my second fav.

Worf et al all seemed to have more experience/familiarity with human(oid) stuff, they were "other" but not as much.

I got to go with Spock but mostly because the KIrk/Spock/McCoy trio is the best character combo in the history of Trek. He not only was great but he enhanced KIrk and Bones as well. Out of the other characters only Odo/Quark come close to that ability to improve each other as characters.

Jason

 

[thewanderingjack]

I got to go with Spock but mostly because the KIrk/Spock/McCoy trio is the best character combo in the history of Trek. He not only was great but he enhanced KIrk and Bones as well. Out of the other characters only Odo/Quark come close to that ability to improve each other as characters.

Jason

I get you but I did mean as a singular character, and mostly as representing the "we are not human/don't know understand human X (emotions, idioms, social norms etc)."

I feel like that was Spock's role... an outsider that helps us viewers understand what these future humans are all about, how they're different from us, how they've changed, and counterpointing some "natural" human assumptions about certain things (both in and out of universe).

 

[Jayson1]

I get you but I did mean as a singular character, and mostly as representing the "we are not human/don't know understand human X (emotions, idioms, social norms etc)."

I feel like that was Spock's role... an outsider that helps us viewers understand what these future humans are all about, how they're different from us, how they've changed, and counterpointing some "natural" human assumptions about certain things (both in and out of universe).

I never felt like the Humans from TOS felt like they are from the future. To me I think they were going for modern day people who simply solved a few problems but still have many problems left to solve.. Spock was basically a observer who pointed out the flaws when he see's them and see's the good traits as normal behavior. Data was more of a cheerleader for humanity and Odo more of a cynic. Spock tried to stay above it all and just look at the facts.

Jason

 

[thewanderingjack]

I never felt like the Humans from TOS felt like they are from the future. To me I think they were going for modern day people who simply solved a few problems but still have many problems left to solve..

I agree they came off as "humans today with cooler gadgets" (which I have a problem with) but they were in the future, meaning not only technical but also cultural innovations, which they said they'd had... you know getting past materialism, nationalism, prejudice (sexism by TNG haha) etc etc. I wasn't saying more evolved, or actually having solved those problems (especially on an individual level). We could have a different chat as to how much was the writers limitations and how much was other stuff.

Spock was basically a observer who pointed out the flaws when he see's them and see's the good traits as normal behavior. Data was more of a cheerleader for humanity and Odo more of a cynic. Spock tried to stay above it all and just look at the facts.

Jason

And that's exactly what I am talking about... each gives us back a view on humanity from an outsider's perspective, their opinions don't matter as much, in this context (though I mostly agree with your assumed ones). My Q was more like, who was the better at acting "not human"? Or at providing that counterpoint/mirror.

 

[Jayson1]

I agree they came off as "humans today with cooler gadgets" (which I have a problem with) but they were in the future, meaning not only technical but also cultural innovations, which they said they'd had... you know getting past materialism, nationalism, prejudice (sexism by TNG haha) etc etc. I wasn't saying more evolved, or actually having solved those problems (especially on an individual level). We could have a different chat as to how much was the writers limitations and how much was other s


And that's exactly what I am talking about... each gives us back a view on humanity from an outsider's perspective, their opinions don't matter as much, in this context (though I mostly agree with your assumed ones). My Q was more like, who was the better at acting "not human"? Or at providing that counterpoint/mirror.

I''f I was to judge who was best at acting as "not human" I would go with Data. He does have some strange quirks at times like taping his finger on the console when talking about being nervous in "The Defector" or his slow reaction to Picard's painting in the episode were RIker is accused of killing a guy and the space station blows up. For the most part though he really feels like someone without emotion. He really does look at things simply from a logical point of view. His attempts to be more human almost feel like he is simply mimicking human behavior in hopes it will make sense to him on some kind of logical perspective. Every once in awhile I think he gets close to getting that perspective such as his friendship with Geordi and Lal but he never makes it all the way of course.

Spock on the other hand is very human. He is simply someone who is smart and kind of arrogant because he knows he is the smartest guy in the room at all times. I think he has tons of confidence and likes Kirk and McCoy because they are great at their jobs and offer him a challenge as people who come close to keeping up with him. Plus they respect him and I think he is someone who rather have someone who respects him than someone who might get all emotional over him. Plus he see's them as people worthy of his respect.

Odo is basically someone I see as being very sensitve and emotionally vunerable but acts tough and rigid so people won't see his true feelings. He doesn't trust people or society that much because people and society haven't ever done much for him. I think he likes Quark so much because he kind of wishes he was more like him. Life of the party and and says whatever is on his mind and doesn't care what others think for the most part. KIra I think he loves because she is very much like him. Bad life up until DS9, both emotionally vunerable both feel the need to be strong and act tough. They are kindred spirits.

Jason