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Poll Is continuity important?

How important is continuity in Trek?


  • Total voters
    113
When it's easy to maintain continuity, I want them to do it. When it's complicated by real-world production issues, I understand that they have to change some things to make it work (actor availability, money, tight schedule, etc.). Like the scenes in AGT that are set in the past using the wrong armrests on the Captain's chair, or Worf's makeup in those scenes.
I can easily ignore continuity breaks that have a simple explanation, like someone having misremembered something, which is only human. Like Kirk saying he met this character only in 2262, when we later see them meet in 2263 as well, because Kirk simply forgot. Or Picard saying that a Klingon disruptor has an output of 47 GW, and later someone else says it's actually just 31, Picard is simply no expert and misremembered. So things characters say can easily mess with continuity and I don't care, because people do say wrong things.
What's presented on screen though is presented as fact within the story. When we see what the USS Lollipop looks like in 2367, and later the same ship is shown in the same time, but looks different, continuity is broken. Someone once said ST is not a radio show, and that's why visuals matter. I do like sound continuity as well, which in pretty much all cases makes no effort to maintain and it yet broken as well sometimes for no reason (Romulan and Klingon alert on SF ships, VOY doorbell on the Disco).
My logical problem with continuity breaks is this: When they change things for no good reason and contradict previous depictions, then one of the presentations is wrong, and as a fan of the previous depictions, I don't want them to basically say: TNG was a lie. The thing you liked in that episode, guess what, never really was that thing. All your books, pictures online, what you saw on screen all these years, it's all false, because we came up with the real thing. Or when Spock says that Vulcan has no moon, and then we see some in TMP, it basically suggests that Spock was lying to Uhura, or doesn't even know his own planet :D
When something was shown to be like this initially, but different many times later, it's also easier to ignore the discontinuity. Like when DS9 and ENT make it clear that Darwin station should not exist, it's that TNG episode that is 'wrong'. When we saw that one Trill in their first appearance, and all the other Trills in hundreds of later appearances looked different, then that first appearance was wrong and the majority is the correct one.

The most vital tool regarding continuity is your own 'head canon.'
It's just sad that it sometimes turns into 'my head canon is more canon than your head canon!' :D

Is there an option for Sweet Baby Jesus, Not This Topic Again?

:shrug:
At least we have one dedicated thread for it now that we can refer all future discussion to. Oh who am I kidding...

I don't care too much, it's entertainment.

Although there are limits to that. For example, I wouldn't like a re-imagining that totally betrays the spirit of the original. For example, a 're-imagining' of TNG that shows that they're all cynical hypocrites that spout the Federation ideals but really are only out there to accumulate advantages for themselves in whatever way when they can get away with it.
That's what makes many of the recuts funny, in which Picard is the most terrible person you can imagine :D

We've all gotten used to characters being recast. I mean, we're up to how many actors playing Spock, now? 3? More if you include stuff like ST Continues.
When a recast is necessary for good reasons, like age, availability, cost, I want the new ones to resemble the old ones to keep the characters recognizable. (No, "producer says so" is not a good reason. Neither is "because".)
But we have people here who seriously believe that none of the new Spocks were cast because of their similarities to Nimoy:shrug:

Completely agree with that, especially with SNW being what 10 years pre-TOS, do they answer how M'Benga goes from CMO to just a regular doctor under McCoy (or is he that M'Benga's older brother who then goes on to serve on Roddenberry/Hartman's U.S.S. Hope), has Chapel been searching for Korby all that time? Whilst the inclusion of a Khan descendent comes across as a bad fanfic element.
I also hope they explain that, for example, M'Benga has a different shift than McCoy, or something like that. Why a nurse is a commander now would also be interesting to find out :D
And La'an being
Khan's granddaughter
really calls for more background explanation. As does Una being
genetically enhanced as well
and them running into
the Gorn long before Arena
.
I do like the comics btw, because they are not expected to fit even remotely with the canon stories. In the early ones, Uhura was white and blonde, and Sulu was black, IIRC - one of those 285000 parallel universes :D

When the Enterprise bridge showed up in Relics I thought it was amazing how they got it so accurate and I loved that the series was respecting its history and renewing its status of being in-continuity.
Same here, it gave me the realization that TNG and TOS really are set in the same world, just at different times.
 
That's what makes many of the recuts funny, in which Picard is the most terrible person you can imagine :D

Yes, I like those too. Because I know they are just jokes. But if a new series would depict the TNG crew in all seriousness as terrible people, that would be a different story.
 
Contunuity is a must in Trek, because once continuity has been broken, an alternate time line has been created.
 
It's a simple fix but writer's strikes locked it down.
Actually, Kirk's rapid promotion to Captain in Trek XI had nothing to do with the writer's strike and is indeed what Orci intended. While discussing the matter in 2016, Orci commented he never understood the backlash against it, saying "the guy literally saved the planet. Doesn't he deserve to be a Captain after that?"
 
Actually, Kirk's rapid promotion to Captain in Trek XI had nothing to do with the writer's strike and is indeed what Orci intended. While discussing the matter in 2016, Orci commented he never understood the backlash against it, saying "the guy literally saved the planet. Doesn't he deserve to be a Captain after that?"

No, why?

After all, saving entire worlds or even the entire quadrant / galaxy / universe is pretty much what every Starfleet Officer does at least a few times in his or her career. Based on what I've seen, at least. If we already start to promote them for that ....
 
No, why?

After all, saving entire worlds or even the entire quadrant / galaxy / universe is pretty much what every Starfleet Officer does at least a few times in his or her career. Based on what I've seen, at least. If we already start to promote them for that ....
Yes, well, no one ever accused Orci of having common sense in his scripts.
 
Anyone who complains about the casting of a black Captain April should have the stones to admit that it's not continuity they're complaining about.

So if it's not continuity they wouldn't be really complaining about what would it be? But the discussion is moot anyway because TAS is not considered canon. The character of Robert April was never seen or mentioned in TOS or the Berman era treks as I can recall.
 
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I blithely assume every single episode of Trek plays out in a separate universe (even if that strongly resembles the universe of earlier episodes).

That's simply a precaution so that later, I won't need to explain away any as of yet undiscovered inconsistencies for myself.
 
One other comment on
Anyone who complains about the casting of a black Captain April should have the stones to admit that it's not continuity they're complaining about.
One other thought, and this involves theatre.
One of my top three favorite musical comedies is Schwartz, Hirson, and Fosse's Pippin. (The other two are Edwards and Stone's 1776, and Sondheim and Furth's Merrily We Roll Along.) At any rate, one of the principals of Pippin is a character known only as the Leading Player. On Broadway, that role was originated by Ben Vereen, and in most of the productions cited as "notable" in the Wikipedia article, that role was played by a black man or a black woman. In my high school's production, the role was played by a white man, and in a Sacramento production of a few years ago, by a white woman. There is absolutely nothing about the role that calls for a specific ethnicity or gender, and in every production I've seen, whether live or on a video recording, the actor brought a different interpretation to it. And likewise, there are many notable productions in which characters loosely based on historic figures were played across ethnic lines, but that still works because the main part of the show, the part very loosely based on the life of Pepin the Pious, is a play-within-a-play, presented as being performed by a ragtag band of itinerant actors.

Likewise, in the two productions I've seen of Merrily, the ethnicity of the actors portraying Charlie Kringas (one of the principals) and Joe Josephson (supporting cast) has varied, with absolutely no impact whatsoever on the believability of the story.

Likewise Neil Simon's The Odd Couple has been performed not just by casts that looked like the original two white men, but also with black, Asian, and female principals (and my understanding is that Neil Simon himself wrote adaptations to accommodate gender and/or ethnicity changes in those roles).

On the other hand, if I were to see a production of 1776 in which the actors either didn't look like, or didn't sound like, the historic figures they were portraying, I would consider that a problem. Which is in fact one of several problems I have with Lin-Manuel Miranda's Hamilton (the other major ones being that I am not particularly enamored with most of the music in the show, nor with Alexander Hamilton, for that matter).
 
One other comment on

One other thought, and this involves theatre.
One of my top three favorite musical comedies is Schwartz, Hirson, and Fosse's Pippin. (The other two are Edwards and Stone's 1776, and Sondheim and Furth's Merrily We Roll Along.) At any rate, one of the principals of Pippin is a character known only as the Leading Player. On Broadway, that role was originated by Ben Vereen, and in most of the productions cited as "notable" in the Wikipedia article, that role was played by a black man or a black woman. In my high school's production, the role was played by a white man, and in a Sacramento production of a few years ago, by a white woman. There is absolutely nothing about the role that calls for a specific ethnicity or gender, and in every production I've seen, whether live or on a video recording, the actor brought a different interpretation to it. And likewise, there are many notable productions in which characters loosely based on historic figures were played across ethnic lines, but that still works because the main part of the show, the part very loosely based on the life of Pepin the Pious, is a play-within-a-play, presented as being performed by a ragtag band of itinerant actors.

Likewise, in the two productions I've seen of Merrily, the ethnicity of the actors portraying Charlie Kringas (one of the principals) and Joe Josephson (supporting cast) has varied, with absolutely no impact whatsoever on the believability of the story.

Likewise Neil Simon's The Odd Couple has been performed not just by casts that looked like the original two white men, but also with black, Asian, and female principals (and my understanding is that Neil Simon himself wrote adaptations to accommodate gender and/or ethnicity changes in those roles).

On the other hand, if I were to see a production of 1776 in which the actors either didn't look like, or didn't sound like, the historic figures they were portraying, I would consider that a problem. Which is in fact one of several problems I have with Lin-Manuel Miranda's Hamilton (the other major ones being that I am not particularly enamored with most of the music in the show, nor with Alexander Hamilton, for that matter).


The Hamilton play looks boring and the snippets of music I have heard sound awful. I can just watch it free on YouTube. Why spend the money. Lol
 
On the other hand, if I were to see a production of 1776 in which the actors either didn't look like, or didn't sound like, the historic figures they were portraying, I would consider that a problem. Which is in fact one of several problems I have with Lin-Manuel Miranda's Hamilton (the other major ones being that I am not particularly enamored with most of the music in the show, nor with Alexander Hamilton, for that matter).
I watch 1776 every year on July 4th. I can assure you that William Daniels does not look like John Adams. :lol:
I think the guys from the money are the only ones who look similar to their actors. Probably because we see them everytime we open our wallets
Hamilton was added to my July 4th playlist last year.
 
Contunuity is a must in Trek, because once continuity has been broken, an alternate time line has been created.

That way madness lies. So, the episodes where Uhura has a yellow uniform are in a separate timeline than the ones where she wears a red uniform? The episodes where Data's cat is male are in a separate timeline than the ones where Spot is female? "Conscience of a King" is in its own timeline because of that one odd line about Vulcan being conquered?

A decent respect for continuity doesn't require that everything be 100% consistent 100% of the time. And "canon," for lack of a better term, is not necessarily an either/or situation. Sometimes "mostly canon" is enough to get the job done.
 
I vaguely remember hearing that at some point there was this "theory" floating around fandom which speculated that every single episode of TOS was in its own slightly different universe.

Kor
 
I vaguely remember hearing that at some point there was this "theory" floating around fandom which speculated that every single episode of TOS was in its own slightly different universe.

Kor
Well, the originator of that particular theory is a member of this BBS and still expounds upon it here some 45 years after it was first published.
 
I watch 1776 every year on July 4th. I can assure you that William Daniels does not look like John Adams. :lol:
You watch it at least every year, too? I'm not alone? :)

Do you also watch Footprints on the Moon (the 1969 documentary, not the 1975 Italian horror film) every Apollo Day?

And well, William Daniels looks perhaps a bit more like Trumbull's Adams from Declaration of Independence than like his Presidential portrait, but point well taken.

Still, I know of nobody who can play "obnoxious and disliked" better than Daniels; he's made a career out of it (Adams in 1776, Dr. Mark Craig in St. Elsewhere, K.I.T.T., various guest roles). He thrives on playing good guys you can admire without actually liking. And of course, Ken Howard was one of the few actors tall enough to play Jefferson (a role he reprised in at least one museum orientation film, as I recall), and I love Howard Da Silva's Franklin.
 
Not to derail the topic, but if you like William Daniels, you should check out The President's Analyst with James Coburn. Daniels has a small role as the father of "an ordinary American family" that is pretty funny. And for a Star Trek connection, the production designer of the movie was Pato Guzman, who was the original production designer on The Cage.
 
do they answer how M'Benga goes from CMO to just a regular doctor under McCoy

Now, even the first time I saw M'Bengayi thought he was a visiting doctor and not someone serving under McCoy. So, I'm OK with this inclusion but still was expecting Boyce. Maybe Boyce moved on. After all, this is after "The Cage."

I agree on your other points. Uhura seems a bit forced, the Soon Augment descendant does feel like bad fan fic, and my first thought about Chapel was her search for Korby.

I was surprised at the change in April and I resent the statement that must mean I'm racist. Hogwash. I'm just a continuity freak. If they want to set this in the sane continuity, then set it in the sane continuity.

Better yet, if they want to be creative and explore new ideas, then be creative and explore new ideas! It's like they cant resist making a call back to previous Trek. Was there a need to make this character Robert April? Was there a need to make Burnam Spock's sister?

I'm still looking forward to SNW and anticipate it will be my favorite modern Trek.
 
Now, even the first time I saw M'Bengayi thought he was a visiting doctor and not someone serving under McCoy. So, I'm OK with this inclusion but still was expecting Boyce. Maybe Boyce moved on. After all, this is after "The Cage."
Tyler and Colt must've gone with him.

I was surprised at the change in April and I resent the statement that must mean I'm racist. Hogwash. I'm just a continuity freak. If they want to set this in the sane continuity, then set it in the sane continuity.
I hope they've just cast the best actor for the role (the name isn't one I'm familiar with). The only onscreen appearance we have of April is from TAS, so it really depends on how mainstream canon it is to some people (though the inclusion of a Pandronian in LD does align it more with the main continuity). For all we know there is some freak accident between SNW and TAS that sees April switched bodies with an older white dude (what's Janice Lester up to during this time period? :lol:).

I'm still looking forward to SNW and anticipate it will be my favorite modern Trek.
I'm going to commit to the pilot and see how that is, going in completely cold and trying to leave my misgivings at the door, though I seriously doubt anything will usurp Lower Decks as my favourite modern Trek.
 
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