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Poll Is continuity important?

How important is continuity in Trek?

  • Total voters
    113
Relayer1 said:
There should be a strong thread running through the shows, but it's not all going to line up "quite" perfectly. Too many episodes, too many writers over too much time. You shouldn't get too wound up.

I can hand wave most continuity issues, but it would be better not to have them.
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Or allow enough open-endedness to let viewers connect the dots. It's risky taking a 3 minute bit of dialogue from a show or movie and turning that into a 2 hour movie, such as "Rogue One", which was admittedly fun and decent but still made new plot holes in a series that has an intentional episodic numbering system. Or "Solo", which took a 3 second bit of dialogue and made that a big part of a movie, as well as reintroducing one-off villains with possible intent to keep using them. (That also runs the risk of "small universe syndrome" (SUS), but Darth Maul is gray-area and cool enough, but the more characters they do runs the risk of SUS that much more. Some characters not being fleshed out keeps some mystique, though for others there's a lot of genuine opportunity, especially if screen time is virtually nil, there is room for creative flexibility... On the other hand, demystifying every event and character can be a sign of franchise rot too, especially if there's no depth to the new character...

Ultimately, it's whatever the viewer wants to see or not.

Heck, even if there is continuity violation, some scenes in of themselves are still cool and there's enough leeway in some that it doesn't bother me, but it can for some. It's just too big a franchise and the only time someone really started out with a solid plan, the show got nixed during the middle of season 4 and "Babylon 5" had to scurry to close as many plot themes, only to get revived at the last minute and that rushed feel really showed... Bestor's ending was a bit underwhelming after all that build-up... (Nope, not Star Wars - it wasn't ever "Episode 4" until a re-release, and even the love triangle issue wasn't really sorted out, since the really big continuity problem of Leia telling Luke how she always knew he was her sister but, oops, she's getting all Jerry Springer incesty on him... "oops..." or "eww...", depending on your point of view... or both... but if anyone wanted a better reason why having some continuity set early on and not deviating without good reason, Star Wars' example is one of the better ones...)
 
Jedi Marso said:
The most vital tool regarding continuity is your own 'head canon.'

Then, it all becomes a restaurant where you choose what you like off the menu, ignore the stuff you don't like, and don't be an a$$ to the staff. ;)
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...or to the other customers. :techman:

Kor
 
Jedi Marso said:
1. Small universe syndrome where we see characters like Uhura, M'Benga, etc appear long before they should, and for no reason other than fan service. You can cast the exact same actors playing new, fresh characters.
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Completely agree with that, especially with SNW being what 10 years pre-TOS, do they answer how M'Benga goes from CMO to just a regular doctor under McCoy (or is he that M'Benga's older brother who then goes on to serve on Roddenberry/Hartman's U.S.S. Hope), has Chapel been searching for Korby all that time? Whilst the inclusion of a Khan descendent comes across as a bad fanfic element. Whenever it comes to the UK, I want to try and approach it with an open mind but there are just elements like these that worry me (I know I shouldn't, its just a TV show after all and there are more important things that I should be anxious about, but I'd like to know how it all fits together).

2. Stuff like having transporters, phasers, and the Borg in a series like Enterprise. Or a cadet promoted to the captaincy of the Enterprise in JJ-Trek
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The rank progression is JJTrek just makes me laugh. I do wonder if Kim had been in that continuity would he still be an Ensign or would he be Starfleet's Commander-in-Chief?

4. The endless redesign of the Klingons.
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I'm kinda done with the Klingons in any form, they're just all caricatures now going on and on about honour, there are very few Klingon episodes I genuinely enjoy and even fewer Klingon characters.
 
Nerys Myk said:
"Foolish continuity is the hobgoblin of little minds"- Roy Thomas

Changing the race of a one off character from the Animated Series is a minor adjustment to continuity. I'll let you know when I discover a major one.
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I think that's the bigger question. What makes a continuity violation egregious?

To me, it's primarily institutions and character viewpoints, than make up, ships, and art design.
 
Bry_Sinclair said:
The rank progression is JJTrek just makes me laugh. I do wonder if Kim had been in that continuity would he still be an Ensign or would he be Starfleet's Commander-in-Chief?
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Several years ago, I fan-fic re-wrote about a one page scene of the JJ-Trek movie to illustrate how lazy the writers were with Kirk's character and how easy it would have been to fix in a way that made his becoming captain believable. Maybe I'll throw it up in the fan fic section of the boards if I still have it on disk somewhere.
 
Jedi Marso said:
Several years ago, I fan-fic re-wrote about a one page scene of the JJ-Trek movie to illustrate how lazy the writers were with Kirk's character and how easy it would have been to fix in a way that made his becoming captain believable. Maybe I'll throw it up in the fan fic section of the boards if I still have it on disk somewhere.
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It's a simple fix but writer's strikes locked it down.
 
  • When they changed the Trill makeup for Deep Space Nine my response was "What's a Trill?"
  • When they changed the Klingon makeup for The Motion Picture I hadn't been born yet, so I didn't have much reaction to that either.
  • When I finally watched Wrath of Khan after Search for Spock I thought Saavik was weird and couldn't quite accept her as being the same character.
  • When the Enterprise bridge showed up in Relics I thought it was amazing how they got it so accurate and I loved that the series was respecting its history and renewing its status of being in-continuity.
  • When the cloaking device was introduced in Enterprise I was annoyed, because it was contradicting a really good episode of TOS.
  • When a certain character's ethnicity was changed for Strange New Worlds I had to think for a while about where they'd shown up on screen, realised it was only in the The Counter-Clock Incident, and decided I didn't give a damn. Because it's The Counter-Clock Incident. The episode could never be in continuity with the rest of Trek anyway, because it exists in its own world where sense and reality doesn't exist.
So I guess my opinion on continuity is I love seeing things connect and for stories to build on past events, but I'm only human and I haven't memorised all of Star Trek so I can't possible be annoyed by every discontinuity! But I do think that they should either tell the story of this universe as we've seen it in the past, or make a new one. They can't have it both ways because that just annoys people. Especially considering that people are encouraged to go back and watch the older stories, they're not in the forgotten past, people are experiencing them for the first time right now and it makes everything feel more legitimate and satisfying when the details line up.

I just want them to make their best attempt at making it all make sense and not give up on the continuity too easily. Also there's nothing wrong with being forced to work within limitations, it encourages creative problem solving.
 
I would say it’s important when it comes to the big stuff.

Going from the Enterprise to the Discoprise is a pretty big continuity violation in something supposed to be a prequel. Especially when it’s been shown a certain way in every series but Voyager until Discovery S2.

But Spock having an adopted human sister that he’s never mentioned isn’t a big deal.
 
Serious question for anyone upset about April's race violating TAS continuity: If changing April's race in Strange New Worlds is a continuity violation, then wouldn't the fact that we've never seen or heard anyone mention any of the magic life-support belts from TAS in any iteration of Star Trek ever since be a continuity violation too?

My biggest problem with the people that get pissy about continuity is that they pick and choose which things to complain about, because if you were to go through the franchise with a fine-tooth comb, making it all fit together usually takes some explanations that may or may not make sense (e.g., Eugenics Wars in the 1990s, Earth-Romulan War fought with nuclear weapons and without either side seeing the other, etc.).

Beyond that, someone correct me if I'm wrong, but TAS being accepted as canon is only a recent thing, and reportedly wasn't exactly the position of Roddenberry when he was alive.
 
Paul755 said:
Going from the Enterprise to the Discoprise is a pretty big continuity violation in something supposed to be a prequel. Especially when it’s been shown a certain way in every series but Voyager until Discovery S2.
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Why? Refits are a thing after all.
 
It's important, but it's not ALL-important.

There are other priorities as well, and there can be a sliding scale as to how important this or that detail may be. As with all writing, there can be trade-offs and judgment calls.

I like to think there's a sane, practical middle ground between being too laissez-faire about continuity and being too fundamentalist about it.
 
Ray Hardgrit said:
  • When a certain character's ethnicity was changed for Strange New Worlds I had to think for a while about where they'd shown up on screen, realised it was only in the The Counter-Clock Incident, and decided I didn't give a damn. Because it's The Counter-Clock Incident. The episode could never be in continuity with the rest of Trek anyway, because it exists in its own world where sense and reality doesn't exist.
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That's kinda my attitude, too. "The Counter-Clock Incident" is hardly a hill I want to die on. And I'm not going to lose sleep over the "recasting" of a character whose only onscreen appearance is one Saturday morning cartoon fifty-plus years ago that has drifted in and and of "canon" over the years, depending on what day it is.

And I say that as somebody who has written an entire novel about Robert April, based on Diane Carey's version of the character. :)
 
Citiprime said:
My biggest problem with the people that get pissy about continuity is that they pick and choose which things to complain about, because if you were to go through the franchise with a fine-tooth comb, making it all fit together usually takes some explanations that may or may not make sense (e.g., Eugenics Wars in the 1990s, Earth-Romulan War fought with nuclear weapons and without either side seeing the other, etc.).
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This is my frustration as well which ties in to a new revelation that I am still parsing through. While I imagine it may be quite different if I were engaging with a large group of fans (like this) in person there would be ways to see the affection for the franchise. Here, and online elsewhere, the continuity nitpicking and complaining lacks any measure of affection. If it felt consistent then maybe I could see it but I don't anymore. It strikes me, whether true or not, that watching Star Trek is no longer an enjoyable activity but a solemn religious observance. No joy, no passion, no joie de vivre. Just hunting for the next problem.
Greg Cox said:
It's important, but it's not ALL-important.
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Discussions like this always remind me of the end of "Kingdom of Heaven":
What is Jerusalem worth?

Saladin: Nothing *walks and then pauses, turns around to say* "Everything!"

It's both, in a very confusing way.
 
Citiprime said:
if you were to go through the franchise with a fine-tooth comb, making it all fit together usually takes some explanations that may or may not make sense (e.g., Eugenics Wars in the 1990s, Earth-Romulan War fought with nuclear weapons and without either side seeing the other, etc.).
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Just to stop and praise Star Trek for a moment, I think it's mostly real life that's contradicting the Eugenics Wars, not the the series themselves, and Enterprise went out of its way to show conflicts with the Romulans where the two sides never saw each other face to face.

fireproof78 said:
Here, and online elsewhere, the continuity nitpicking and complaining lacks any measure of affection. If it felt consistent then maybe I could see it but I don't anymore. It strikes me, whether true or not, that watching Star Trek is no longer an enjoyable activity but a solemn religious observance. No joy, no passion, no joie de vivre. Just hunting for the next problem.
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I realise I'm usually one of the people coming up with explanations for nitpicks instead of making them, but I kind of get it. I find that a series has to build up some trust before I can really enjoy it, and if I'm not feeling like the writers are on the same wavelength as me with regards to what things should not be messed with, then it pushes me out of the story and all the faults start becoming more visible.

I think only a few of those things on their nitpick list were the big ones, the ones that kicked them out of the story, or the series entirely, and after that point of story collapse all they could see were the flaws. Unfortunately once you're really into something it can be very hard to get back out of it, especially when there's the hope that it'll get better. Or the hope that someone else will take over... which I'm feeling very strongly myself for Doctor Who right now. It took me forever to finally let go of The Flash and admit it wasn't going to improve and you can bet I talked to people about all the ridiculous things that happened in the latest episode. Though I didn't make a numbered list of 70 nitpicks and post them on a forum.
 
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