Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies I-X' started by WarpFactorZ, Mar 26, 2019.
Titillating trying to make up for a lack of script.
only one tng film was good first contact
I really like INS. The exchange between Picard and Dougherty is brilliant, and has helped me win real-world debates, actually
The soundtrack, the sets, the absence of wild space action and pew pew fight scenes, the contemplative mood, Geordi seeing his first sunrise, Data learning from a child... I find it much better than NEM.
Respectfully, INS actually has a bunch of pew pew action...it's just really shitty pew pew action.
And there always seems to be an explosive nebula nearby in Trek, too. Funny how that works.
Better to have an over-abundance of exploding nebulae than too many space bazookas that shoot pink bolts!
it's simply a minor thing and not exaggerated (as it is in nemesis)
I'm actually not so sure that it's significantly different in total the run time. Certainly Nemesis has more. But I'm not sure in Insurrection it's "minor" by comparison.
If you count all the "action" sequences, where characters are running/jumping/shooting or where spaceships are pew-pewing...Insurrection has it's (very) fair share. But Nemesis is much more effectively done.
A fair amount of the pew pew was just tagging people for transport by lil drones that were easily taken out.
True, but it's still pew pew, no matter how you slice it!
In fact, there's a massive amount of "on foot" pew pew in this movie.
Opening scene (Son'a chasing Data)
Son'a vs. Picard & Data Phaser fight (on the holoship)
Evacuating the Village at Night (aerial bombing and more tagging)
Daytime Drone Tagging / Into the Caves / More Aerial Bombing
Fight on the Mountain Top (purple bazooka and more drone tagging- this is where Picard and Anij get tagged)
Re-taking the Son'a bridge (vs. Worf)
Picard and Ru'affo fight on the Collector
Let's not forget the completely contrived and virtually meaningless space battle with subspace tear weapons, massive explosions, Riker Maneuvers, core ejections, and manual steering sticks and the earlier shuttle vs. shuttle scene with Picard and Worf singing an asinine song.
Heck, after writing all that, I'm not really convinced that INS and NEM are that different in terms of pew pew content.
The problem is that it's all fairly mundane and not well-executed. For all the "action," it feels amazingly dull and stakeless. NEM did not feel that way.
I'm not sure that NEM didn't feel that way...
We knew the Enterprise wasn't going to get blown up, and we knew Earth wasn't going to get vaporized, so...what were the stakes, really?
The only noteworthy character who "died" was one for whom a spiritual successor was established at the beginning of the film.
With regard to Insurrection, the entire behind the scenes struggles may be a case in point why Star Trek works better on TV than film. The lead actors have too much sway over the story content of the feature films.
Like I've said in other threads, Insurrection was so creatively bland and lazy I never once felt like I was on some fantastic, different, unique alien world. Its entire ambiance was so Earth-like generic and boring, I simply didn't care what happened in it. Having been to some of Earth's various South Pacific islands, I've seen far more wild, mind-blowing, otherworldly scenery on THIS planet than anything this deliberately generic, by-the-numbers movie had to offer. Whatever flaws Nemesis may have had, it was certainly a more ambitious movie than Insurrection.
How was Nemesis more ambitious?
Because it put the Romulans on the silver screen for the first time. And the idea of genetics and cloning is, by nature, more interesting and tantalizing than a worn-out "fountain of youth" story like INS. Nemesis also had a far more glorious, large-than-life space battle, a far more interesting Goldsmith score, and far more interesting guest acting by Tom Hardy as Shinzon and Dina Meyer as the female Romulan commander.
Regardless of its flaws, Nemesis had a lot more interesting cinematic features to offer than the dull, sappy Insurrection.
Romulans on the screen: But in the end the film isn't really about the Romulans, is it? It's about Shinzon and his space vampires.
Genetics and Cloning vs. "Fountain of Youth": TNG explicitly did at least one episode in which cloning featured prominently. AFAICR they never really did a 'fountain of youth' storyline.
Glorious Space Battle: INS does have its own space battle(s), but I will concede that most would probably agree the one in NEM is more ambitious. Whether that makes the film itself more ambitious may be a matter of opinion.
Music score: YMMV. I remember more of the INS score personally, and I'm not sure how that factors into making the movie more ambitious, especially when both films had the same composer? It's not as though they specifically threw more money into the music for NEM. A good composer writes to the material.
Guest acting: Again, YMMV. Last I checked though, at the time Tom Hardy wasn't especially well-known while Anthony Zerbe was. And...hello, F. Murray Abraham. NEM does have Ron Perlman...and totally wastes him.
Cinematic Features: I don't know whether you're using this term to encapsulate what you itemized or whether you're referring to additional items.
Based on my above breakdown, I might support a statement along the lines that NEM did more successfully with what it had to work with, but I wouldn't call it significantly more "ambitious".
The 4th time, after V, VI, and VIII (though the only one in VIII was dead XD)
Genetics and cloning is not as futuristic or unusual a concept as metaphasic radiation from a planetary ring regenerating DNA. But the themes were perhaps equally interesting: Revenge and forgiveness within families, and where the limit is for allowing bad things to happen for the greater good (in IX); versus the effect of growing up in very different environments on someone's personality despite being genetically identical (X).
"New Sight", "Drones Attack", and "Riker Maneuver" are so much better than anything from XI, I think
If Filmtracks is anything to go by, the score for INS is generally better-regarded than that for NEM.
Not sure why the Fountain of Youth concept has been so derided, sure it's familiar but I think far from exhausted, not obviously or memorably done a hundred, let alone million, times, can be and in the film (for its others flaws) was thought-provoking.
Insurrection definitely isn't a film that'll have you on the edge of your seat.
I think it has some redeeming qualities, it's definitely not one of the better Trek movies to be sure, might have made for an interesting 2 parter during the actual series but... Overall I can still watch it...
I just cringe so hard at a lot of the Scenes after the Baku escape the village when they're just walking around and some of the cave stuff... Just painful.
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