Insurrection not a bad film
- Thread starter MattyWelli
- Start date
well OK, that would fall under special circumstances. It's unusual to be fitter as a fifty-year-old than it is as a thirty year-old. You're also losing the ability to concentrate as much, pick up new things as much, etc. This is all very broadly speaking of course, there's lots of stuff you can and should do to keep yourself alert, fit, and healthy even as one gets older.
Obviously, the alternative I meant was the hypothetical future "alternative" of either not aging at all once you reach a certain point or aging at a much slower rate.
However, this has gotten pretty far off topic so I shall refrain from posting on this subject further even though it's one that interests me.
back to INS...
Obviously, the alternative I meant was the hypothetical future "alternative" of either not aging at all once you reach a certain point or aging at a much slower rate.
However, this has gotten pretty far off topic so I shall refrain from posting on this subject further even though it's one that interests me.
back to INS...
Just as well that I finished my second grad dip last year then just before I turned 50!
I actually kind of enjoyed the movie because the character interaction captured the mood of the series.
But:
Reading this thread makes me realize one thing: Some of the people who hate the movie must've watched it way more often than I have because they remember everything so much better than me.
Talk about bizarre attitudes.
But:
Reading this thread makes me realize one thing: Some of the people who hate the movie must've watched it way more often than I have because they remember everything so much better than me.
Talk about bizarre attitudes.
That's a legitimate point.
I think my major irritation with Insurrection is that it takes a situation which is hugely complex and nuanced, and treats it as if it were a simple 'underdog vs the Big Bad Federation' story.
The Ba'ku are among the most culpably selfish civilisations we've ever seen in Trek. Having stumbled upon what could be the greatest medical resource in the quadrant, they not only keep it to themselves, they also refuse to interrogate their environment through any form of science. Forget about reversing aging - think about what the ability to temporarily reverse the progression of a disease could mean for any patient whose condition is curable but was caught too late or is progressing too fast. Had a scientifically curious civilisation found the planet first, who knows what discoveries they could have made which would have benefited all organic life?
IMO, the fact that such an amazing resource was instead in the hands of a luddite civilisation who were not pre-warp but had chosen to return to a pre-warp level ought to have raised all kinds of ethical conflict for the Enterprise crew. They are committed to non-interference with other civilisations. And the colonial overtones RAMA points out are a real problem. At the same time, Ba'ku priorities in their monopolisation of this planet to which they are not indigenous are philosophically challenging, at odds with ideals of curiosity, exploration and progress. The fact that the planet makes the Ba'ku immortal adds even more levels of complexity. It makes moving them effectively a death sentence, but also creates a situation where the people on Ba'ku now are largely still the original settlers, complicating questions of their right to the land.
Any one of those issues could have made for some first rate soft sci-fi.
But instead of that, Picard uncritically moons over frozen humming birds with a space Amish lady whom he fancies. And the science officer plays in a haystack. And the head of the medical division talks about her boobs. Starfleet's stake is reduced to mustache-twirling, and the logical inconsistencies pile up to the strains of Gilbert and Sullivan.
I do not like Insurrection.
The problem is the whole "exile" thing. A tiny little 300-people village on a HUGE planet. And 100 exiled people can't set up their own village on, like, the other side of the planet?
And the point that the movie did not make clear enough was: resettlement would have killed all of the Ba'ku. The healing effects reversed once you left the Briar Patch. Geordi lost his eyes again.
And the point that the movie did not make clear enough was: resettlement would have killed all of the Ba'ku. The healing effects reversed once you left the Briar Patch. Geordi lost his eyes again.
That's a legitimate point.
I think my major irritation with Insurrection is that it takes a situation which is hugely complex and nuanced, and treats it as if it were a simple 'underdog vs the Big Bad Federation' story.
The Ba'ku are among the most culpably selfish civilisations we've ever seen in Trek. Having stumbled upon what could be the greatest medical resource in the quadrant, they not only keep it to themselves, they also refuse to interrogate their environment through any form of science. Forget about reversing aging - think about what the ability to temporarily reverse the progression of a disease could mean for any patient whose condition is curable but was caught too late or is progressing too fast. Had a scientifically curious civilisation found the planet first, who knows what discoveries they could have made which would have benefited all organic life?
IMO, the fact that such an amazing resource was instead in the hands of a luddite civilisation who were not pre-warp but had chosen to return to a pre-warp level ought to have raised all kinds of ethical conflict for the Enterprise crew. They are committed to non-interference with other civilisations. And the colonial overtones RAMA points out are a real problem. At the same time, Ba'ku priorities in their monopolisation of this planet to which they are not indigenous are philosophically challenging, at odds with ideals of curiosity, exploration and progress. The fact that the planet makes the Ba'ku immortal adds even more levels of complexity. It makes moving them effectively a death sentence, but also creates a situation where the people on Ba'ku now are largely still the original settlers, complicating questions of their right to the land.
Any one of those issues could have made for some first rate soft sci-fi.
But instead of that, Picard uncritically moons over frozen humming birds with a space Amish lady whom he fancies. And the science officer plays in a haystack. And the head of the medical division talks about her boobs. Starfleet's stake is reduced to mustache-twirling, and the logical inconsistencies pile up to the strains of Gilbert and Sullivan.
I do not like Insurrection.
Well said.
why is that the case? The impression I got was that they were going to use the Son'a technology to collect the healing properties of that system and then bring those healing benefits to whomever wanted them, including the recently evicted Baku.
Even if that point is wrong, they still got to have a much longer than average lifespan anyway.
Roll credits. Then, in a sinister post-credits teaser we see John Logan loom from the shadows and pick up a pen.
Regarding the fine points of knowledge, only possible after many viewings, displayed by the critics of Insurrection in this thread: I haven't even seen it, only heard it (through the Listen to a Movie site, which is up and running again after temporarily dying at the end of 2010). I have seen a few clips, though, in addition.
All of the comments I've seen lead me to think that Mr. Frakes did as fine a job directing it as anyone could, taking good advantage of the location shoot, etc. - but that it was simply a dud script, not well thought through.
I might see Insurrection properly one day - something I can't say for Nemesis, which I've also listened to. (The last Trek movie I saw in the theater was First Contact and I haven't been able to muster interest in AbramsTrek, although the next picture might change that.)
All of the comments I've seen lead me to think that Mr. Frakes did as fine a job directing it as anyone could, taking good advantage of the location shoot, etc. - but that it was simply a dud script, not well thought through.
I might see Insurrection properly one day - something I can't say for Nemesis, which I've also listened to. (The last Trek movie I saw in the theater was First Contact and I haven't been able to muster interest in AbramsTrek, although the next picture might change that.)
That was actually the result of test audiences not liking the original ending. So it was kinda a majority vote to change it.
Haha, that's awesome. "I kill you now. Stop whining, you already lived for 300 years."
Those losers can just live in the moment forever.
yeah, the poor widdle, self-centered, "screw you Jack, I've got mine" smug little Luddite "happy to let others do the fighting for us" Baku.
I'm fighting back tears for them as I type this.
As was commented on before, the Ba'Ku and the Sona are older then the Federation itself, so the Federation coming in and saying 'move away from our planet' is bullshit by itself. I like the fact that, as in DS9, Insurrection shows us that the Federation isn't a sain't-only club.
Personally, I feel that FORCING any group of people away from they're planet (yes, they're planet, they were there before the Feds ever excisted) is wrong on any level.
What bothered me, was that after it was found out they are a warpcapable society, no one thought to open negotiations with these people, to simply talk to them.
I mean, seriously, the Federation (as good as their intentions are) are quite an elite group of people. They considered these people a simple race, not up to Federation standards (see how wrong that sounds?) that they shouldn't intervere with, because they aren't warpcapable. Makes sense, ofcourse. But as soon as they find out they are far more advanced, they figure lets get rid of them, instead of opening a dialogue with these people.
Very advanced way of thinking indeed.
Personally, I feel that FORCING any group of people away from they're planet (yes, they're planet, they were there before the Feds ever excisted) is wrong on any level.
What bothered me, was that after it was found out they are a warpcapable society, no one thought to open negotiations with these people, to simply talk to them.
I mean, seriously, the Federation (as good as their intentions are) are quite an elite group of people. They considered these people a simple race, not up to Federation standards (see how wrong that sounds?) that they shouldn't intervere with, because they aren't warpcapable. Makes sense, ofcourse. But as soon as they find out they are far more advanced, they figure lets get rid of them, instead of opening a dialogue with these people.
Very advanced way of thinking indeed.
