Spoilers Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny grade and discussion

[David cgc]

I know of people who didn't care for the first one but really enjoyed Maverick

I'm one of them. I'd only watched the original Top Gun for the first time within the year before Maverick came out, and I didn't care for it, but the sequel is very different in tone, characters, style, in as much as they're both part of the "planes go fast, make boom" genre. I'd also point out that I was too young to see Top Gun when it first came out, so Independence Day was my "planes go fast" movie, so had a soft spot for Maverick based on the choice of hardware.

 

[Charles Phipps]

Who still believed in the cause? What cause? And why did Mutt join the Army? To become a fridged character?

1. A huge chunk of Americans believed in Vietnam being a cause of defeating communism.

2. Probably to show up his legendary dad.

3. And yes, to get rid of Shia Labeouf.

 

[Dee1891]

Indiana said Mutt did it because it would upset him and he wanted to stick it to his old man. Maybe he felt insecure and wanted to prove himself; his father fought in two World Wars, after all. Maybe his experience with Soviets trying to use alien, excuse me, extra-dimensional being technology made him a strong proponent of domino theory and he thought we needed to fight them over there so we wouldn't have to fight them over here.

Given that he's dead before the movie starts, all our information on his motives is vague and second-hand, so, suffice it to say, he volunteered, and wasn't drafted (I was wondering about Indiana's opinion on the war when he pretended to be being arrested for speaking out during the parade so the protesters would help him get loose of the goons taking him in, but I guess he really didn't support the war), and his parents disapproved of him joining up but he did it anyway (Indiana says it was because of that, but at the end of the movie, we learn he isn't necessarily the most reliable source about his own trauma).

A 29 to 30 year-old man would do something like this? Never mind. Forget it. I'm just not interested or invested in this movie.

 

[the G-man]

Killing Mutt and having Indy divorce Marion seems like it may have been an Alien 3/Killing Newt and impregnating Ripley level of plotting mistake.

 

[General_Phoenix]

I guess Han, and Indy both have difficulties with relationships, and raising kids.

 

[Jedi Marso]

I guess Han, and Indy both have difficulties with relationships, and raising kids.

And Luke.

All three characters were turned into bitter old men with failed lives. I suspect it wasn't by mistake.

 

[jaime]

I guess Han, and Indy both have difficulties with relationships, and raising kids.

Indy didn’t raise his kid. It’s pretty much the whole subplot of the *previous* non-Disney movie. And even I know that where a movie starts is not where it ends.

 

[Timelord79 (he/him)]

And Picard.
And Kirk.
And Indy’s father.
And Tony Stark. No wait, he died in Endgame, but if he’d lived there would have been a story eventually about him failing his daughter. just Iike HIS father.

weird.
Almost like drama tends to come from people not being perfect.

 

[Samurai8472]

This film definitely reeks of the same fingerprints that Kennedy left all over Star Wars:

Having the main character we left years ago turn out to be a pathetic loser who's got nothing to live for, until he encounters a spunky young woman who's better than him at everything, wins every argument and generally outclasses him. I mean jeez, I wasn't expecting to see Luke Skywalker flipping around, nor do I want to see an 80 year old Harrison Ford pretend to be in his prime, but did they have to make him a divorced loser who's shuffling around a dirty apartment just waiting to die? It's like they learned nothing from Star Wars.

 

[fireproof78]

More common than people think.

 

[bdub76]

Too long. Better than I expected. The deaging looked great.

No idea why he decided to live in a city apartment.

Loved Marian with wrinkles. Much better than Crusher with a bad face lift.

 

[Dee1891]

And Picard.
And Kirk.
And Indy’s father.
And Tony Stark. No wait, he died in Endgame, but if he’d lived there would have been a story eventually about him failing his daughter. just Iike HIS father.

weird.
Almost like drama tends to come from people not being perfect.

Uh . . . yeah. Because it does.

Unfortunately for this film, it also included fridging another character with contrived writing and using an old adversary - namely the Nazis - for the third time.

 

[bdub76]

Uh . . . yeah. Because it does.

Unfortunately for this film, it also included fridging another character with contrived writing and using an old adversary - namely the Nazis - for the third time.

Other than Young Indiana Jones, the Nazis are always his villain. It’s like the sith/empire for Star Wars. It’s expected. Not lazy writing. Crystal Skull and Temple of Doom show how badly this franchise suffers with alternative villains.

 

[jaime]

Uh . . . yeah. Because it does.

Unfortunately for this film, it also included fridging another character with contrived writing and using an old adversary - namely the Nazis - for the third time.

How were they gonna bring back Shia? And the Nazi’s are kind of Indy’s thing. I think the Soviets worked in CS, but this makes much more sense.

 

[Dee1891]

Other than Young Indiana Jones, the Nazis are always his villain.

The Nazis were not the main villains in at least two movies. And the idea that the Nazis should be his main antagonists, regardless of the time period not only makes little sense to me, but smacks of unoriginality.

How were they gonna bring back Shia? And the Nazi’s are kind of Indy’s thing. I think the Soviets worked in CS, but this makes much more sense.

I had never expected Shia Lebouef to appear in this movie in the first place. But there was no need to kill of Mutt. What this idea that the Nazis always have to be Indy's antagonists? Since when?

 

[The Nth Doctor]

I thought you weren't interested or invested in this film.

 

[JD]

This film definitely reeks of the same fingerprints that Kennedy left all over Star Wars:

Having the main character we left years ago turn out to be a pathetic loser who's got nothing to live for, until he encounters a spunky young woman who's better than him at everything, wins every argument and generally outclasses him. I mean jeez, I wasn't expecting to see Luke Skywalker flipping around, nor do I want to see an 80 year old Harrison Ford pretend to be in his prime, but did they have to make him a divorced loser who's shuffling around a dirty apartment just waiting to die? It's like they learned nothing from Star Wars.

The whole idea of the former hero who's turned his back on that lifestyle being brought back into it by a new younger sidekick is a plot that's been around a lot longer than The Last Jedi.
I think the whole idea is the whole appear comes in from seeing the hero slowly fallen back into his old lifestyle, so that way they can give us the big dramatic moments as each of their big familiar elements reappear.

As for the movie, it wasn't perfect, but I really enjoyed it.
Harrison Ford managed to hold his own pretty well in the action scenes for a guy in his 70s. Obviously he wasn't at the level he was at in his prime, but he pulled it off pretty well.
The dial was a pretty cool MacGuffin, and all of the time travel stuff it lead to at the end was a lot of fun. I loved Indy's insistence that Helena leave him behind, that really would have to be a dream come true for an Archaeologist like him.
I enjoyed the overall story with the search for Dial was a fun way to give us all of the globetrotting adventuring we expect from an Indy movie, and the relationship between Indy and Helena was pretty fun.
Phoebe Waller-Bridge was absolutely fantastic as Helena Shaw, she was definitely one of the highlights of the movie. And Ethann Isidore's Teddy was one of the better kid sidekicks we've gotten in these kind of movies. You really can't got wrong with Mads Mikkleson as your villain.
I was a little disappointed they announced Karen Allen's appearance before the movie came out, that whole end scene would have been a lot more fun if we didn't know Marion was going to show up.
Overall, I'd give it a solid A.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

io9's Germain Lussier pointed out a very neat detail that I completely missed but I'll be sure to catch it the next time I watch the film.

Remember that puppet show watched by the kid Teddy pickpocketed in Sicily?

It depicted the Siege of Syracuse...complete with dragon.

I love attention to details like that like that!

 

[jaime]

The Nazis were not the main villains in at least two movies. And the idea that the Nazis should be his main antagonists, regardless of the time period not only makes little sense to me, but smacks of unoriginality.




I had never expected Shia Lebouef to appear in this movie in the first place. But there was no need to kill of Mutt. What this idea that the Nazis always have to be Indy's antagonists? Since when?

I didn’t say that, I said it makes *sense*.
If this is intended as the last Indy film, it makes perfect sense to bring it full circle. It’s essentially also an element of commentary on the films themselves — audience expectation, but the film is in some ways also about Indy having his ‘best days in the past punching Nazis’ and having to move past that. The villain is a Nazi, and a man who quite literally won’t let the past go.
I have only seen the trailer as yet, and that much is obvious,

 

[Dee1891]

I'm sorry, but I didn't like having the main villain as another Nazi (or sympathizer). It just smacks of unoriginality. I could barely tolerate this in The Last Crusade. I really wish Disney had not made this fifth film.